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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Obi-Wan-A Character Workshop: PT Obi and OT Obi: The Whole Package

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by obi_ew, Aug 1, 2003.

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  1. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Mar 1, 2002
    Ah, but were they smarter than that? It has been suggested that they were indeed, that they wanted to be caught so that they could be taken to Grevious. Where did I read that?? Somewhere.
     
  2. Alley_Skywalker

    Alley_Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 27, 2005
    I think it's in the GL comantary.
     
  3. honour

    honour Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 13, 2003
    GL does indeed say in the DVD commentary that they wanted to be caught in that scene. Once I knew that, the exchange was no longer cheesy to me:p
     
  4. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Mar 1, 2002
    I never thought it was cheesy...LOL. I figured they had a plan because, let's face it, they were smarter than that and they looked too darn confident when they were brought before Grevious (sp?):p
     
  5. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2004
    I think that was part of the plan, or at least a contigency plan. :p
     
  6. honour

    honour Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 13, 2003
    True, diane, that they looked very confident facing Grievous. I was :oops: to myself when GL said they meant to get caught. I was guilty of not giving the boys enough credit there :D
     
  7. SakuraTsukikage

    SakuraTsukikage Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 24, 2005
    Yeah, they were pretty confident while facing Grievous. I always figured they had some sort of plan, though the "wanting to get caught bit" definitely had me surprised as well. I think they would have freaked out a bit more if they hadn't been expecting to face Grievous at some point and their objective was to avoid him completely.
     
  8. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2004
    'Wanting to get caught' makes no sense to me. I think they just had a plan for what to do if they got caught. Since they were on a rescue mission, their priority was to get in and get out. But just in case...they likely had a Plan B. I suppose that trick with R2 was something that they've done and they just mutally agreed to go with that one before they were brought up before Grevious. I assuming that they used the silly Jedi-hand-signals that were cut out of the movie but still in the DVD extras.
     
  9. Kestrel_Kenobi

    Kestrel_Kenobi Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 26, 2005
    I wish they'd kept all the edited parts in ROTS...

    But I do love the cut Obi/Ani scene best with the hand signals, that was [face_laugh] ...

     
  10. Nienna_Narmolanya

    Nienna_Narmolanya Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 5, 2005
    ardavenport - As nice as it is to believe that Obi and Anakin getting caught was all a part of the plan, I think you're right. It would be foolish to get caught on purpose during a rescue mission. Too many things (including the Chancellor's life) were at stake. Though we all wish they had simply chucked Palpatine out a broken viewport right then and there... ;)

    Agreed. That part was so funny! :D But they cut my Mon Mothma from the movie! [face_not_talking] That's unforgivable! :p
     
  11. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2004
    Yes, if I wanted to put anything back into ROTS, it would be the pre-planning missions for the Rebellion. I suppose there's still another DVD release where they could do that, when they release the prequel movies as a set.

    But Obi-Wan wouldn't have been at those meetings! He never trusted politicians. I honestly think that's why he didn't consider Leia a serious 'hope', because she was a politician. It would have taken some arm-twisting to get him to train her, but I honestly think that's why Bail Organa called him to Alderaan, so he could train her. He just hadn't told Leia about it. Obi-Wan could have brought Luke, too, but Organa knew for sure that Leia would do it. Organa was probably going to send for Yoda next, but the planet blew up and all that.
     
  12. SakuraTsukikage

    SakuraTsukikage Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 24, 2005
    Those are some very interesting thoughts. That's one of the only explanations for Obi-Wan's discounting Leia that made sense to me--that and maybe he thought she had already gone too long without being trained.
     
  13. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2004
    Leia hadn't gone without training for any longer than Luke had at the beginning of ANH. But since the Sith Lord who destroyed the Jedi Order and corrupted Obi-Wan's apprentice came out of the Senate, I think Obi-Wan would just a bit biased against Senator Leia Organa.

    I wonder if Obi-Wan was able to watch Leia from afar like Yoda had watched Luke from Dagaobah? I think it's likely, especially with Qui-Gon's help. Yoda was biased against Luke, probably because of his similarities to his father, which would likely have biased Obi-Wan in favor of Luke. Though if Leia had shown up on his doorstep to be trained, Yoday would likely have given her just as much of a hard time anyway.
     
  14. Nienna_Narmolanya

    Nienna_Narmolanya Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 5, 2005
    Good thoughts, ardavenport. :) You have some interesting theories there. You know, it has never occured to me in all my years of watching Star Wars that we never learn why Leia is pleading for Obi-Wan's help. :oops: (At least, I don't think we do...) [face_thinking]

    You made good points about Obi-Wan and Yoda being biased against either Luke or Leia. I've always felt an undercurrent of that when watching the OT movies, but I've never thought about it before. Today is just the day for new revelations. :D I think you're right about their bias, but I don't think a Jedi would conciously allow himself to have a bias. Maybe subconciously however... It's natural that Obi-Wan would want to 'redeem himself' by training Luke and also spend time with Luke - the embodiment of his father, the man that Obi-Wan lost...
     
  15. honour

    honour Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 13, 2003
    I agree with those that think Obi-Wan perhaps thought Leia couldn't take on Vader et al because she hadn't been trained. Also, someone made the following point in another forum and I agree with it: Luke has father issues. Uncle Owen had always just been Uncle to him. However, Leia knew she was adopted but only ever thought of the Organas as her parents. Regardless of biology, as far as she was concerned Bail was her father. Also, she had more direct experience with Vader in the enviroment in which she grew up, including her own torture. Given her more more longstanding knowledge and experiences with Vader, I'm quite convinced Obi-Wan believed there was a significant chance she would lash out in anger and hate at Vader, thereby leading to her own turn to the dark if she was trained.
     
  16. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2004
    That makes sense, too, that Obi-Wan might expect Leia would go after Vader with hate. She certainly inherited her father's tempter! Luke is much more like his mother.

    I think Obi-Wan had conscious and un-conscious reasons for favoring Luke.
    I really think that Obi-Wan would have considered Leia a greater risk, just because she went into politics. Now, I'm sure that Bail warned her about the Emperor being a Sith, so she must have stayed away from him as much as possible. And she certainly disdained Vader. But from a distance, how could Obi-Wan be sure? Palpatine was cultivating his own padawan for years and he never realized what it meant until it was too late. But Obi-Wan was right there on Tatooine with Luke; he could be much more sure about Luke.

     
  17. honour

    honour Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 13, 2003
    I'm not thinking of Obi-Wan's distance from Leia. And it seems to me that despite his general view of politicians, he trusted Bail Organa and grew to respect Padme.

    As a Force ghost, Obi-Wan would not be able to see the future because it is impossible to predict the choices individuals might make. However, I do believe that, as a Force ghost, he would know the past. In my opinion, that means he would have very good reasons to believe that Leia might let her hatred of Vader be a driving motivation in trying to destroy him and the emperor.

    That is not to suggest that I think that Leia's personality is like Anakin's. Leia, in my view, is all about responsibility and accountability. She has a sharp tongue. That is not the same as being an angry, jealous and fearful person, which is what Anakin Skywalker is in my opinion.

    I'm not one who believes that biology is everything. To me, the person Leia is could be credited to the Organas as well her own choices, and her chosen profession the result of following in Bail's footsteps - not the profession of her biological mother.

    EDIT: It's clear to me that neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda wanted Luke confronting Vader in anger or hatred because that's the dark side, so it follows for me that Obi-Wan wouldn't want Leia doing the same. As I said, I believe Obi-Wan has excellent reasons to believe that her hatred of Vader might take over even if she were trained given her longer term experiences with Vader. No danger of her getting all sentimental at discovering Vader is her biological father, either, I think; quite the opposite.
     
  18. honour

    honour Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 13, 2003
    Oops, double post. Sorry.
     
  19. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2004
    Those are very good points....since Leia was 'exposed' to Vader during her senatorial career then that alone might be Obi-Wan's reason for not thinking he could train her. She was very opinionated and Obi-Wan might not have thought he could overcome her loathing of him. To hate a Sith is to become a Sith. However, Yoda seemed to think he could get around that. Both Luke and Leia had their mother's sense of duty and responsibility.

    Luke was more of a blank slate for Obi-Wan to work with. I think Obi-Wan had training 'issues', even after he died. He obviously felt guilty about failing Anakin, though it didn't stop in from moving on with Luke. He said that to Anakin and he told Luke he was wrong about thinking he could train Aankin as well as Yoda. Anakin was the person responsible for his failure, but for poor Obi-Wan it was personal.

     
  20. honour

    honour Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 13, 2003
    ^I categorically disagree with your characterisation that Obi-Wan "failed" Anakin. I rather believe it was quite the reverse. Anakin betrayed and failed Obi-Wan.

    Now that I've seen ROTS, I also don't agree with your view about why Obi-Wan's hesitation about Leia. It'll have to be an agree to disagree thing:)
     
  21. Nienna_Narmolanya

    Nienna_Narmolanya Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 5, 2005
    And I'll just sit back and listen. :D Good points all around.
     
  22. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2004
    Oh, Anakin was absolutely, positively responsible for destroying the Jedi Order. That's why Obi-Wan cut his legs off. But Obi-Wan has a bit of the old guilt thing going about failing him anyway. That must be part of his Jedi selflessness I suppose. I honestly can't see why Obi-Wan should have any more guilt about Anakin's fall than the entire Jedi Order should about not noticing that a Sith Lord was running the whole government for 13 years.

    Now, even though Obi-Wan does have guilt about Anakin, he doesn't let it disable him. He sighs over it with Luke rather than agonizes. But he'd had 20 years of soul searching to get throught the worst of it.

    Which makes me wonder...did Obi-Wan have any problems with depression in his first years on Tatooine? I like the portrayal of him in the Last of the Jedi books. He's down, but his Jedi habits get him through it. And he did have Qui-Gon. :)

     
  23. DarthMousche

    DarthMousche Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jun 16, 2005
    And he had a purpose: to watch over and protect Luke.

    I'm sure those first couple of years must have been difficult, trying to make a new life, being alone with the burden of guilt over Anakin's fall and the burden of responsibility for the brightest hope for the future. But in the end, he is a Jedi and that helped him overcome any handicapping grief and move on to fulfill his duty. In ANH, he's not a bitter, depressed man; in fact, he's rather jovial.
     
  24. ardavenport

    ardavenport Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2004
    In ANH, he's not a bitter, depressed man; in fact, he's rather jovial.

    He's Jedi to the core...as Qui-Gon said in the JA books. Yes, he might have had some depression in the beginning, but having a mission on Tatooine must have

    Now here's something I'm wondering about...I don't recall seeing any fanfic references to Obi-Wan's ponytail. Or whether it's a Padawan thing, or a choice of Obi-Wan's. We always talk about the braid, but not the ponytail. Even I forget about it in my fic; you just don't see it when you look straight at him. But there it is, sticking straight out of the back of his head in TPM. Any thoughts?

    And what is the Star Wars equivalent word for 'ponytail'?
     
  25. obi_ew

    obi_ew Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 14, 2002
    It was part of the Padawan style. Anakin has one in AOTC although his is much smaller.... insert own dirty joke here... And the Padawans in ROTS have them also. Some do anyway.
     
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