Obi-Wan-A Character Workshop: PT Obi and OT Obi: The Whole Package

Funny... I think the awnser really depends on wether you limit yourself to cannon or not. Non- Canon...definitely his wanting of love from...his master. (Cyn's AUF anyone?)

Canon-In my mind, his only flaw was his beard and the hair in ATOC. I think he was the perfect definition of the Jedi...dedicated, lacking of pride... I don't think he showed anger when he killed Maul...and with Ani, I see more exasperation, and kind of a sense of what am I doing wrong here? He willingly admits his weaknesses, and since when are weaknesses flaws? But mostly I just really hated that whole bearded and bad hair cut motiff...made him look older than his 35 years...especially in a galaxy where people live so much longer...

 

Phoenix - LOL and LOL again. Got to agree with you with the whole beard thing. I happen to like men with long hair so the hair could stay or even lengthen a little but, why oh why, did they cover up that adorable chin????

 

I confused myself Diane! Drugs! I thought arrogance was one of his flaws in a way. And I agree that Jinn certainly did help to shape the person he became. I think Cyn put it well on her thread where she stated that she felt that the Jedi were rather cold and non demonstrative. That they had to be that way in order to do the job they were called to do. If that were the case then how could Qui or Obi be expected to offer an apprentice something they never had? Is it a flaw? * shrugs*

 

I agree with diane in that I didn't associate Obi-Wan's attitude towards Anakin with arrogance. I've never thought of his character as possessing that flaw.

I do think that he had a strong, strong anger when he killed Maul, but the actual death of the Sith was committed out of desperation, since he barely survived it himself. And I liked it when he was angry too--such wonderful facial expressions.

I don't mind the beard so much..but those re-shoot scenes where it looks kinda greasy or something mess it up. His hair's fine as long as it's not combed back--think during the battle in the Geonosis arena.

Actually, if you think about it, Obi-Wan's biggest flaw might have been his need to please Qui-Gon. He accepted Anakin as his apprentice due to the Master's dying wish..and look what happened. [face_shocked]

Gosh, I love this thread.

 

Actually, I don't consider the Jedi to be cold or undemonstative at all - taking only the movies into account.
Qui-Gon may have been reserved but he was very physical (touching Obi-Wan, Shmi and Anakin a lot).
Obi-Wan was also demonstrative in his love for Qui-Gon, his anger at being shoved aside, his stubbornness in insisting on training Anakin plus a lot of small verbal touches in AOTC that spoke of his warm feelings and frustrations with Anakin (from the "relax" at the beginning of the movie through his yelling at Ani on Geonosis - the emotions were there).
Even Mace was quite reserved but warm in his reactions when his friend Dooku was accused by Padme. Only when he was after Dooku does he appear to be cold and unrelenting.

So, to me, the Jedi have learned to control their emotions to some extent in that they don't anger easily and fight defensively without malice.
But cold, no.
But, of course, it all depends upon your point of view...LOL.

 

Good observations, diane. I don't see where people refer to Obi-Wan as cold and indifferent.

If I see anyone as being cold or arrogant, it'd be...well, this is the 'Obi-Wan' thread, right?

 

I'm not sure if this a flaw necessarily, but I think that Obi-Wan is driven by a need to prove Qui-Gon right, support him, and be loyal to him. When Qui-Gon declares Anakin his padawan, Obi-Wan looks hurt but quickly recovers to say that he's ready for his Trials, somewhat trying to let Qui off the hook, so to speak. At the end of TPM, Obi-Wan tells Yoda, "I will train Anakin ... Qui-Gon believed in him, and I believe in Qui-Gon." (I'm not sure if that very last part is actually in the movie or was on the DVD somewhere). In AOTC, he tells Dooku rather strongly that "Qui-Gon Jinn would never join you."

The result of loyalty to Qui-Gon, of course, is that Obi-Wan took Anakin as his apprentice. Perhaps now he's driven by a desire for Anakin to become a Knight just to prove that Qui-Gon was right. Interesting though, in one deleted scene for AOTC, Obi tells Mace, "I realize now what you and Yoda knew from the beginning. The boy was too old to start his training." So perhaps my idea of him desiring to prove Qui right above all else would be wrong. But related to this idea is that Obi-Wan shouldn't have trained Anakin; someone more experienced should have done so. He even tells Yoda and Mace he feels Anakin is not ready, but they sort of throw the "he's the Chosen One" back at him. I can sort of imagine Obi-Wan thinking, 'All right, so I've told my superiors I'm not totally sure that Anakin is on the right path, but they ignored my fears. Hmph. Well, if Anakin turns to the dark side and kills them all, well, they can't say I didn't warn them.'

Is Obi-Wan arrogant? That is one thing I've never really understood. Yoda does seem to be directing his "arrogant Jedi" comment to Obi-Wan, but there really isn't any other evidence of it in the film. (I'll bring up that deleted scene again, where it appears that when Obi tells Mace that Anakin is arrogant, Mace just sort of raises an eyebrow as if to tell Obi he feels the same about him). Perhaps because Obi-Wan went against the Council at the end of TPM to train Anakin makes the Council feel Obi was a bit arrogant. Qui-Gon does call him headstrong, too.

I don't think he was arrogant toward 'pathetic life forms', either; I always thought that was sort of a joke. Maybe the line should have been: "Why do I get the feeling you've picked up yet another tag along?" or something like that.

Well, I've said a lot and hopefully it makes some sorta sense.

 

I totally agree that there was a lot of love between Qui and Obi. The way they dealt with one another as Qui lay dying is a prime example. Qui-Gon's little brush against Obi-Wan's mouth darn near broke my heart! And Obi-Wan appeared to be crying, everytime I see the death scene in Moulin Rouge, I think if that scene in Menace!

And Obi seemed to have an almost brotherly relationship with Anakin, perhaps because there was only about 15 years between them. I just agree that the Jedi were not encouraged to get emotionally involved, which may have given the casual alien on the street the impression that they were cold and distant.

 

Ever notice a lot of people seem to die in Ewan's arms, obi_ew? Besides Menace and Moulin there's Eye of the Beholder and I think one other.

I think 'pathetic life forms' was an old joke between them that some people took a little too literally when they say Obi-Wan is arrogant.

Anakin repeatedly says he thinks of Obi-Wan as his father, but I think Obi-Wan was too young to begin with, and wouldn't really fall into that role in his apprentice's life. That's a big problem in their relationship. I think he would have respected Qui-Gon or an older Jedi more.

 

I think he would have respected Qui-Gon or an older Jedi more.

I can't help wonder if that might be true. But that reminds of something that always bothered me about AOTC - the lack of Qui-Gon. I know he's dead and all (duh! ) but I would have thought that Obi or Anakin would have mentioned him more than what he was (we have a 'Qui would never join you' and a disembodied 'no!'). Especially since Obi and Ani are meeting Padme again after 10 years - the last time they saw her was the mission with Qui, when Obi lost his master and Ani became a Jedi. I'd be interested to hear what Ani thinks of Qui now, and how Obi would have responded. But I think I'm a bit off topic now!

 

Yoda does seem to be directing his "arrogant Jedi" comment to Obi-Wan, but there really isn't any other evidence of it in the film. I always thought this was directed more towards Mace, and in implication, the council.

 

I think it was more towards Obi-Wan because of the face Ewan makes when it's being said.

 

Had an exhausting couple of days at my new internship, will need to sleep before I even attempt to spill out my thoughts, but I just had to say:

His hair's fine as long as it's not combed back--think during the battle in the Geonosis arena. That's always one of the thoughts floating around in my head whenever I watch that battle. I love Rouge Obi and Angry Obi and especially Tousled Obi

 

Another off topic comment. Have you all seen the photo of Anakin from Episode 3?

 

ya, good pic...even if the eyes look a bit blood shot

 

^^ When I saw it, I couldn't help thinking that he looked like someone with glaucoma!

 

Really off topic, obi_ew. Isn't this the Obi-Wan thread?

 

*appluads LE*
































*MY 800th Phoenixi Post!*

 

Not necessarily off topic...Anakin with long hair - yum!!(have I mentioned that I like long hair in men??? LOL). Maybe that means Obi-Wan will have some of that tossled hair when they finally fight...

 

Welll.... It relates because..... Just imagine those lovely tousled locks after Obi-Wan kicks his *** and they are burnt away in a hot boiling lava bath!

 

And now back on topic - about flaws...we are still on that topic aren't we? On the Qui-Gon thread, we were just discussing the Phantom Heresies series of articles from 2000. They had one on Obi-Wan. Here's the link Obi-Wan's Pride It does make some pretty interesting points. Let's face it. Obi-Wan does have a lot of pride especially in his unfailing way of taking the whole universe's guilt onto his shoulders. Well, read the article. It was instructive and mythical as well.

Heavy happy sigh on Anakin's hair style ...just teasing you LE...LOL.

 

Wow! Just read that Diane! Thanks for the link. One sentence in particular got my attention.

Kenobi, like everyone in the saga, is a slave to destiny

Just about says it all huh?

 

HA HA diane.



I saw the picture of Ep.3 Ani...I had a good laugh. He looks like Kevin Sorbo from that Hercules show. (and that's not a compliment!)

Oops. Now I'm straying off topic!

Very interesting piece. Weird, since I just saw a Joseph Cambell video where he spoke specifically about 'Star Wars'. It's so neat that Lucas seems to be following the paths of ancient greek myth, at least with Obi-Wan. I don't agree that Anakin is some sort of eternal hero, but that's just me. I did like that there were different types of heroes mentioned, though. The tragic hero description fits Obi-Wan perfectly.

 

Have to agree with you LE . I don't see Anakin as a hero per se. I did notice that even this article commented on the arrogance of the Jedi. I'm still clinging to my belief that Obi-Wan did have an air of arrogance about him when he was young. Pride and arrogance. As the article mentioned, his comment about thinking he could train Anakin and finding out he was wrong. The JA books described anger and fear as being his two greatest flaws, anger we see in Menace and fear dogged him all of his life. Fear of failing Qui-Gon. I don't think he ever quite out grew that.

 

Very true, o_e. It seems like that's all he wanted in life. I still think that's why he said he could train Anakin. If he admitted he wasn't yet capable, he could be the cause of the boy leaving the Temple. Qui-Gon seemed to be the only one who believed in Ani from the beginning. Obi-Wan was forced into it, and then is frowned upon in the next film (by the audience, at least) for voicing his worries about the boy.

Tragic hero? I'd say so.