Saga Obi-Wan and Anakin or Obi-Wan and Luke?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Force Smuggler, Jul 5, 2013.

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  1. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Of the 2 main Master and Apprenticeships in the Saga which one was your favorite? Obi-Wan and Anakin? Or Obi-Wan and Luke?
    I personally prefer the relationship between Obi-Wan and Luke in the OT rather than Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship in the PT. The end of the Battle of Yavin really hit that home. "Use the Force Luke!" Okay the whole thing about Vader killing Anakin was bad but the only time I really liked Anakin and Obi-Wan together was the first half of ROTS. Vader and Obi-Wan were great in ANH but that is Vader, not Anakin. With Obi-Wan and Luke I got to see the start of their relationship and how things progressed. With Obi-Wan and Anakin the start of the relationship in TPM was weak since they interacted twice for not even 20 seconds and it didn't help in AOTC when Anakin was at odds with Obi-Wan and they were only together at the beginning and the end. Only the beginning of ROTS was good for their relationship.
    Thoughts? Favorite comments between the pairs, etc
  2. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    For me this is like choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich, but I'm bored so I'm just gonna ramble if you don't mind (and even if you do).

    I guess, if asked, I'd choose Obi-Wan and Anakin. I liked PT Obi-Wan's humor, upbeat spirit, attitude and behavior more than the OT's bitter (even his humor is bitter) and manipulative Ben. Even though Anakin's hardcore whining and bickering with Obi-Wan is insufferable, it's undoubtedly memorable. Obi-Wan and Anakin seem to have an actual relationship, just a disastrous one. It's all over the place, it's confused, but there's a lot of emotion in it, a lot of love, even. One of Anakin's few redeeming moments is his refusal to leave Obi-Wan behind, the loyalty expressed there really hits me. They've definitely been through a lot of danger together, with the nest of gundarks, the speeder chase on Coruscant, the duels against Dooku, that mess on Cato Neimoidia, etc. Even the duel on Mustafar, as ridiculously stupid, terrible, hammy and full of awful dialogue as it is, it's also extremely intense and ends with an emotional breakdown for both of them.

    I don't think Ben and Luke are very memorable, it's over too fast. There are a few exceptions, but not many, imo. Ben and Luke hardly have an actual relationship before Ben dies, Ben just sets the innocent Luke off on an adventure. I think their relationship, the emotion in their relationship, is superficial, especially for Luke. It doesn't help that their relationship starts off on a nasty lie (let's not make this thread all about that). Luke had more of a relationship with Owen than he ever did with Ben, just one he didn't like. I think Owen cared more about Luke than Ben ever did.

    TPM: Only the ending is significant, imo. When Obi-Wan tells Anakin that he will train him, I see serious earnestness in Obi-Wan, and complete indifference from Anakin. Obi-Wan's words seem to mean nothing to him. I know there's the "another pathetic lifeform" and Obi-Wan calling Anakin dangerous, but the former is completely irrelevant imo and the latter isn't so much between the two as separate, but involved, if that makes any sense, which it probably doesn't.

    AOTC: Again it's Obi-Wan's earnestness that stands out, and Anakin's seemingly complete ignorance of it. You can tell Obi-Wan has really tried (it wasn't the effort that was lacking, but the understanding), he's said the same things a million times, and he's frustrated. Anakin is simply done listening to him at this point. They're talking at each other, not to each other, but they do care about each other. I think the "COME TO YOUR SENSES" exchange is the most memorable, the most defining, as Obi-Wan has to scream at and threaten Anakin to get him to listen. Their relationship shines through after Anakin gets blasted by lightning by Dooku, with Anakin struggling to come to and rescuing a helpless Obi-Wan in the nick of time and Obi-Wan keeping the presence of mind to Force pull his lightsaber and toss it to Anakin. They seemed really in sync at that moment, they were really fighting hard for each other.

    ROTS: Picks up the camaraderie where AOTC left off. Anakin is no longer a Padawan, so Obi-Wan doesn't have to nag anymore, which makes their relationship much easier, they can actually have fun together now. Lots of little jokes, like "This time we'll take him together. I was about to say that." Obi-Wan knows the nagging is useless, so he lets things slide and just focuses on reassuring Anakin whenever he can. Their separation in ROTS was unfortunate to say the least. The discussion about the spy mission is as demonstrative of the misunderstanding between them as it gets, they have completely opposite views. "Why are you asking this of me? The Council is asking you." It's pretty jarring for Obi-Wan to go from "he's like my brother" to "I will do what I must".

    ANH: Really a relationship of circumstance and convenience between Ben and Luke (compared to circumstance and inconvenience between Obi-Wan and Anakin). Luke wants adventure and Obi-Wan offers it. Oh, and he knew Luke's dad and has quite a revelation in store for Luke. Luke even gets a shiny new toy. Luke would have jumped in a stranger's van for some candy at that point and in a way Ben does come off as a predator, similar to Palpatine's great interest in young Skywalker's career. "I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father" is powerful, but not really because of the relationship between Luke and Ben. Ben sorta shepherd's the innocent Luke through a "wretched hive of scum and villainy", which is probably the nicest moment between them. "This little one isn't worth the effort". Luke's "Ben is a great man" comes off as a bit strange considering Luke's known him for like 15 minutes, but I guess Ben really impressed Luke with the Force and everything. Ben's sacrifice is all mystical and cool as hell, but really confusing in terms of motivation. I won't get into it, but I will admit I always tear up at Luke's "No!" and teary eyed blasting, with Han and Leia begging Luke to get going, Luke isn't hearing them and Ben's "Run, Luke. Run!" finally snapping him out of it.

    ESB: Ben's relevance drops off significantly after his death, imo. Ben's "I don't want to lose you the way I lost Vader" is pretty sympathetic, but you'd think he'd bust out the truth at that point to get through to Luke, instead of standing by to watch it happen again.

    ROTJ: Luke's incredulous "a certain point of view?" says it all, their relationship has been tainted at this point. I'm not saying Luke hates him or anything, just that the innocence is gone forever, Luke doesn't trust him without question anymore, he's gonna analyze what Ben says from now on. Ben's attempts at an explanation are just intolerable, imo. He just keeps going, even though Luke is hesitant to kill Vader. "Then the Emperor has already won". Good thing Luke ignores him, but this leads to Luke learning that he has a twin sister that he's been lusting after, and Ben neglected to tell him. Nice.

    Uh, sorry for the nonsensical wall of text, I'm just sitting here waiting to take off.

    I greatly prefer Yoda and Luke and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan over both the choices given in this thread, the former two are more professional and less personal, which means they lack the nastiness of the latter two.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Jul 5, 2013
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  3. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    I quite like the Obi-Wan and Luke pairing, but more for Luke's unbending sympathy toward Obi-Wan, even after being lied to (or seriously misled). The Obi-Wan and Anakin relationship, in my opinion, has many more layers to it, and their little Indiana Jones stint in the first act of ROTS cements it as both the funnier and the truer one, to me.
    kainee and Carbon1985 like this.
  4. AnakinColodin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2009
    star 2
    I actually prefer the master apprentice paring of Yoda and Luke then any of the ones with Obi-wan. Really Luke did not have that much time with Old Ben and Yoda acting all crazy chinese martial arts master on luke really worked.the look of sadness on Lukes face when Yoda Passes into the force is really sad
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  5. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Neither were the most functional were they? Obiwan always seemed to be the not-quite-up-to-it Qui Gon replacement in Anakin's eyes and Obiwan did a lot of head shaking. Luke / Obiwan is basically a relationship based entirely on a very large lie. It's a tie!

    Yoda / Luke is the master / apprentice relationship which I found most inspiring.
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  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I prefer the friends-and-brothers relationship with their going at each other's throats that was Obi-Wan and Anakin, to the farmboy and wise-old-mentor with a propensity to cover his ass using "a certain point of view" that was Obi-Wan and Luke. Part of that has to do with the fact that I'm not much of a Luke fan until the last half of ROTJ. Blasphemy, I know.

    I did like the Yoda and Luke relationship.
    kainee likes this.
  7. Jetedonne Pur-Pureus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2013
    star 4
    Obi-Wan and Luke, for sure.

    Two words, Alec Guinness. An epic actor, from then to now.

    Luke and Obi-Wan’s teacher/student correlation is really well done, and it has a blithe element to it that never goes away throughout the OT, in my own personal opinion.

    Also, just watch an all PT marathon, and whilst ‘tis enjoyable to watch the lighthearted ribbing between Obi-Wan and Anakin, 3 hours later after Obi-Wan has chopped Anakin in half…it’s not so funny anymore.
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  8. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I prefer Obi-Wan and Anakin.

    For me, the Obi-Wan-Luke relationship would have been more of a draw if there would have been a bit more fallout to Luke discovering Obi-Wan's lie. As it is, I just find that Luke accepts it far too easily for it to be believable to me. Additionally, I find that in ANH (the film in which Luke and Obi-Wan have by far the most interaction) Obi-Wan is a bit too much of the classic "Wise, Old Mentor" for my taste.

    Obi-Wan and Anakin, although they were often difficult with each other, were a much more realistic take on a relationship than Luke and Obi-Wan in my opinion. They were often dysfunctional (and things certainly didn't end well), but I found the progression of the relationship to be understandable and more interesting. Obi-Wan's caution and evasiveness with Anakin (initially) in the first film gives us mutual frustration and distrust by the second. When they grow into their friendship by the third, I can see how and why Obi-Wan has come to trust Anakin while Anakin (sadly) has lost faith in Obi-Wan and the tension this creates (mostly on Anakin's end, though). It's a relationship very much hampered by the characters' disparate backgrounds and a highly unconducive institutional system.
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  9. HylianBowcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2011
    You might be able to tell from my icon on the left, but I'm a Anakin/Obi-Wan fan. I've always been a fan of the brother vs brother story. I've always felt like Obi-Wan can read Anakin like a book. But if I were to pick from the whole saga I would have to say Obi-Wan/Qui Gon. Perhaps because Qui Gon has the gravitas that make him appear to be a very respectable master, not to say that Obi-Wan isn't though.
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  10. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Qui-Gon and Anakin in TPM.
  11. Giovs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2013
    star 2
    Luke and Obi Wan.
    It's hard for me to choose my favorite Obi Wan (Guinness and MacGregor are both great), but Luke is way better than Anakin, in my opinion.
  12. Shadow Trooper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2013
    star 4
    Given the options, I will vote Anakin and Obi Wan over Obi Wan and Luke. Yoda and Luke was way more epic than both these pairing though.
  13. Isabella Skywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2013
  14. darthwannobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2013
    I liked both. Not sure I can pick a favorite.
  15. kainee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 1
    Obi-wan and Anakin, mostly because I felt that Obi-wan was the equivalent of a preschool teacher to Luke while Yoda did the actual heavy lifting. Ironically enough, the setup with Luke's training in the classic trilogy seems to have reversed the roles Yoda and Obi-wan seemed to have played in the PT-era Jedi Order since it seems Yoda trained the younglings before individual Knights and Masters took them on as padawans.

    A master-student relationship that results in the death and then rebirth of a Republic? There just is no comparison in my mind. I also view Obi-wan's mentoring of Luke as an extension of his relationship with Anakin and the teacher/student link between Obi-wan and Luke never seemed to be as strong as the one I saw between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

    Now, if the choice were between the master/student relationships of Obi-Wan & Anakin, Qui-Gonn & Obi-Wan, or Yoda and Luke, I would be much more torn. Although I think if threatened with a lightsaber, I'd still end up choosing Obi-Wan and Anakin, followed closely by Yoda and Luke. :p
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