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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Obi-Wan dismembering Anakin in RotS, Compassion?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Samuel Vimes, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. only one kenobi

    only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2012
    I get this. I really tried to find a perspective to make sense of this scene, and this works as well as any. So, I think rather than having discussions talking past each other; there is a slight difference in the perspective of the discussion, I think. I think the best way of understanding that difference is while you say

    "I think maybe it's because he wanted Anakin alive for a while longer so he can tell him stuff (you were the chosen one, what gives?, etc.)"


    I think that the discussion from my own (and I think Samuel Vimes) perspective would be that Lucas wanted to get those lines in, so that the scene follows a path dictated by what Lucas wanted to say. There's no criticism implied in this response, I just think there are two similar discussions possibly happening obliquely. One is trying to ascertain an in-universe reasoning, the other is questioning whether any such in-universe motivation really makes any sense...and how it could have been handled differently.
     
  2. hairymuggle

    hairymuggle Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2014
    To me there are plenty of valid reasons for his actions, I haven't quite decided which one I like best
    1) No murder for Jedi
    2) He's done with Anakin
    3) Wants Anakin to suffer for misdeeds
    4) Not worth the risk to get closer to Anakin again after winning

    I'd like to think the decision was because Obi Wan is not capable of killing Anakin no matter what, but then I also like the idea that Obi Wan is absolutely willing to mercilessly decimate you if you cross him. Both seem very plausible.
     
  3. The Star Wars Archivist

    The Star Wars Archivist Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2013
    Put it this way:
    Obi-Wan dismembering Anakin can't necessarily be classified as compassion.
    But I don't believe he wanted one Jedi to leave without three limbs. I don't think he would ever harm Anakin out of spite.
    Obi-Wan tried to convince Anakin to back down before the start of the battle. It would make sense for him to give Anakin another chance at surrender when he knew he had an advantage over him.

    To reiterate, I don't think Obi-Wan ever wanted Anakin to be dismembered and suffer as he did. Maybe it was just an instinctive action fuelled by Obi-Wan's anger and confusion.
     
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  4. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Here is the thing, I have been trying to make sense of Obi-Wans actions.
    Out of universe Anakin can't die and must get burned but those reasons don't work in-universe.

    As I have said several times, by dismembering Anakin, Obi-Wan effectively "killed" Anakin, so the "He couldn't bring himself to do it." explanation doesn't work.

    Ex, person A and person B are shooting at each other, person A has a gun and a gun that fires a poison dart. The poison is 100% fatal but is also very slow and horribly painful. Person A gets a clear shot and could either shoot person B in the head or use the poison gun. Person A uses the poison gun. And person A takes time to look at person B lying on the ground in agony and then leaves.
    Did person A kill person B? Yes. Did person A choose a slow, painful way to kill person B? Again yes. If person A had first used the poison but after watching person B scream in agony, person A then shot person B in the head to end it quickly. Would you view the shooting in the head as "murder"? Person B was dying already and because of what person A did. So shooting him in the head only changes how fast he dies and how painful it is.


    [/QUOTE]

    As I said, I think Obi-Wan is skilled enough with a blade that if he wanted to kill Anakin directly when he jumped over him, he could have. If so then he made a deliberate choice to NOT kill Anakin directly, but to dismember him instead.

    And the movie shows no indication that Obi-Wan knew about Sidious so that is not relevant.
    Obi-Wan could just have force pushed Anakin into the lava. Painful yes but still quicker. He doesn't have to go down.
    Obi-wan cuts Anakin to pieces, says some words, picks up the lightsaber and walks away. Then Anakin screams at him and he stops and looks back and sees that Anakin begins to burn and then he says a few more words and then walks away again. I don't think that he expected Anakin to live.

    @jakobitis89

    But there was plenty of ground to the left and right of Obi-Wan where Anakin could have jumped to.
    And if he can control his platform and move to the side then just move to a place where the area is flat. Or Anakin just Force-throws some sand at Obi-Wan and then jumps ashore. He had plenty of options.

    @FARK2005
    Wrong, dismembering a person like that is fatal unless the person gets help. A person with no legs and only one arm will not be able to move very far and will eventually die of exposure unless there happens to be a lot of food and water nearby. Where they were, death is 100% assured baring outside involvement.
    So by dismembering Anakin, Obi-Wan effectively "killed" him.

    This argument actually works against your position.
    Obi-Wan is a trained Jedi. He has been taught to fight and kill if he has to. And he has killed before.
    But he would certainly have been trained to make his kills as quick and swift as possible.
    And when he has killed before, he would have tried make those a quick as possible too.

    So if Obi-Wan falls back on instincts and training then he would go for the quick kill, not dismemberment And as I said above, I think he is skilled enough and experienced enough that if he wanted a quick kill, he could have done it.

    And in your scenario, Obi-Wan either slashes blindly at Anakin and just happens to dismember him.
    Or he tries to kill Anakin but misses and only dismembers him.
    Sorry, either doesn't work for me. The former don't work because the result if far too precise and exact for it to be an accident. And for the same reason the latter don't work either, plus I think Obi-Wan is too skilled for him to make such a big mistake. And in that scenario, Obi-Wan is willing to kill Anakin.
    Obi-Wan makes two slashing movements, first severing the arm and the second severs the legs. He looked up at Anakin, moved a bit, and then struck.
    To me, this looked to be exactly what he wanted to do.
    Possibly he expected Anakin to roll down the hill and down into the lava, killing him.
    But I think he knew what he did.

    @Estelita
    But the problem here is that Obi-Wan had spoken several times to Anakin before and during their fight. So if he had something truly important to say, he could have done so earlier.
    And he pretty much have told Anakin off before "Then you are lost!" and what not.

    When Obi-Wan begins to walk away, Anakin is not yet on fire. Then Anakin yells at Obi-Wan, saying he hates him. Not too surprising since Anakin possibly expected Obi-Wan to finish him off and not leave him there to die slowly. So when he saw that he would not, Anakin yells at him.
    Then Anakin begins to burn and Obi-Wan walks away.

    In closing, I don't want to read hate and cruelty into Obi-wan actions. He is one of my favorite characters from the PT films. ´But his actions here just seems so at odds with how he otherwise acts. And this scene bugged me the first time I saw the film.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
     
  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Obi-wan leaves him to die, but for him, that is better than just killing him outright. It isn't supposed to be clean cut. Obi-wan makes a choice because Anakin forced him to choose and he choose a compromise that he could live with. Yoda wanted him dead, but he wasn't going to kill his friend directly. It isn't about cruelty. It is done because he's done with it all. That's why Stover wrote it as letting the Force decide if he would burn up and die, or not.

    Not really. The point is that they, like the Sith, acknowledge that the good person that they were is gone now. That Anakin is truly Vader. Vader represents everything that Anakin's flaws were that took on a life of its own. He was consumed by his own darkness.


    And it flies over your head. Bruce Wayne does consider himself to be Batman. In his mind, he died with his parents. The man who exists is the Batman. The Batman is the person who trained himself for years to fight crime, without knowing how he was going to do it. This is why in the animated series, he speaks with his Batman voice after putting on the suit for the first time, even when he's not wearing his suit and talking to people who are in the know. It is akin to method acting where actors get so into character that they stay in character when the cameras are not rolling and in some cases, won't respond to their real names. In "Sandman: The Wake", in the funeral sequence, there's a scene that stands out.

    [​IMG]

    In the panel, Superman sees himself as Clark Kent in the dream, but Bruce Wayne is Batman.


    In "52", Bruce says that the Batman was born from all the dark parts of himself that he built up over the years. Darth Vader is the same thing. He is Anakin Skywalker's fear, anger, hate, greed and jealousy made manifest. Likewise, Palpatine's crinklebutt face is the real face of Darth Sidious and Sheev Palpatine is a mask that he created to hide who he really is. Notice how he changes his voice, his mannerisms and even his gait. Once he has declared himself Emperor, he stops pretending to be Palpatine. He presents himself as Sidious. Sure, he was born as Sheev Palpatine, but once he was ready, once he was anointed and truly embraced who he was, he really stopped being Palpatine.
     
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  6. The Star Wars Archivist

    The Star Wars Archivist Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2013
    Obi-Wan's true intentions are shown when he tells Anakin to surrender. It is clear he does not want conflict. I just don't think he would goad him, and if he were to do that, why would he say something like "It's over, I have the high ground now" when he could say something far more provocative about Anakin to make him jump. It is a genuine asking of surrender.

    When Anakin refuses to surrender, when Obi-Wan knows he has the advantage, that's when Obi-Wan knows undoubtedly that Anakin has turned. I think it was pure instinct that led him to dismember him (fuelled by hate and confusion). Just because he is a skilled swordsman, it doesn't mean his emotion can't take over sometimes.

    Obi-Wan didn't go for the quick kill either because Anakin would have been able to defend against it more easily, or because he was taken over by his emotions. Just because his emotions got the better of him at that specific moment, it doesn't mean that Obi-Wan ever intended to give Anakin a slow, painful death.
     
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  7. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    LOL. Yeah, there's no way I can comprehend the Quantum physics your throwing my way.:rolleyes:
    No, he doesn't. In fact if you watch the OT closely, his never mentioned.

    That's like, your opinion man. Also, in the animated film Mask of the Phantasm, is when he first puts his mask on in the animated continuity, and he doesn't say a word.
     
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  8. Estelita

    Estelita Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2001
    He did speak to Anakin several times, but he wasn't done. He said stuff to Anakin after the dismemberment that he didn't say before. He wanted to get in his bottom line, I guess?

    I agree, it's pretty gross, and if it's true that Obi-Wan simply wanted Anakin to die slowly and painfully then I agree that it's out of character for him. So maybe it would help you to imagine him as just having run out of emotional fuel at that point? I understand it's hard to imagine that for him, and the only reason I could is that I've been through excruciating situations myself and simply couldn't take anymore.

    I read the "I hate you" as just an overall "screw you," rather than being a response specifically to Obi-Wan walking away. But yeah, I can see how he would say it due to not being shown mercy. Maybe he said it for both of those and other reasons.[/quote]
     
  9. LZM65

    LZM65 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2015

    Obi-Wan and Anakin were in the middle of a life-or-death duel. Anakin made the decision to attack Obi-Wan, when the latter cut off his limbs. Obi-Wan's act wasn't compassion or a desire to make Anakin suffer. It was self-defense.
     
  10. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Anakin had been by far the most aggressive throughout the entire duel, he'd been piling on the attacks with intent to kill - whether or not you buy Obi-Wan's defensive tactics as deliberate defence or desperately holding on, he was going backwards for most of the fight and hadn't had any real decisive chances to strike. Anakin on the other hand had been out for blood and even attempted to throttle him with his bare hands, none of that force choke business - that's a pretty personal and painful way to kill somebody.
    Obi-Wan's reaching the high ground WASN'T the turning point just because he was on the slope, it wasn't the best bit of writing but the point was that he'd basically trapped Anakin - on level ground he can take pretty much everything Anakin had to throw at him, being uphill was only going to make it easier for him and harder for Anakin, who couldn't even outmanoeuvre him anymore due to the lava, the boot is on the other foot as the saying goes. He could try jumping to either side but Obi-Wan would still be able to cut him off pretty easily and force him back down towards the lava, where the heat will sap his strength - and if he gets desperate his attacks will get wilder, Obi-Wan the master of counter-attacks will pick him off even easier.
    Anakin had spent the whole fight trying to kill Obi-Wan, who in turn had simply rode the storm out and waited for his one decisive chance, which had now arisen - but even then, knowing what Anakin was about to try, he warned him off it. That action meant Obi-Wan would have to kill him outright or at least take off a few limbs, he doesn't WANT to do either, he specifically says 'Don't try it!' in what sounds to me as much desperation as anything - he knows what will happen but what else can he do? Let Anakin kill him? Not an option. In the end he defends himself and Anakin gets dismembered and set alight due purely to his own arrogance and rage, and Obi has pretty much run out of options, time and most importantly compassion. His warning was such that even then he didn't want to cripple Anakin but he had no choice. The speed Anakin came at him he had to make the call without even thinking, and the results was fricasseed Chosen One.
     
  11. FARK2005

    FARK2005 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Again the injuries in themselves are not deadly. Sure what comes afterwards most likely would, but the point remains that in the few seconds Obi-Wan has to react, the human brain doesn’t have time to consider: if I take this swing this will happen, so I should instead swing in this angle because then I get this result instead – but wait! If I do this and leave him behind, then exposure will kill him, etc, etc. When Anakin attacks instincts takes over and Obi-Wan’s action is based on automatic reflexes – not rationality – and he ends up taking a none-lethal action.

    What happens afterwards one might argue that Obi-Wan should have either killed Anakin or taken him to get help, but whereas you see a machine I see a person who has obviously reached his breaking point and therefore not one capable of making rational or logical decisions. His mission was accomplished, he had neutralized the threat, and he couldn’t bear to stay there for another second. Judging by Obi-Wan’s actions afterwards, I see nothing to indicate that what he did to Anakin had anything to do with taking revenge or being intentionally cruel, if that was the case I would expect him to take pleasure and satisfaction in Anakin’s suffering, but he clearly doesn’t. In the end, he is simply a human being who has been pushed beyond his limits.

    Not at all. If Obi-Wan had faced an enemy like Maul, that would be true, but this enemy also happens to be the person he cares for the most, and therefore his actions were guided by not one, but two different emotional responses:

    The first is acquired reflexes. His senses register a dangerous and urgent situation, and without conscious thought he acts. The action is both instinctive and partially acquired as it is dependent on the body’s earlier experiences which have created different reflexes.

    The second is reflexive emotions/instinctive evaluations. He is facing a complicated dilemma: his life is threatened by a person he for many years had been responsible for and cares for deeply. In the ideal situation – which is the one you base your argument on – his action would be based on him having reviewed, seen through and calculated all possible scenarios and their potential impacts and/or principles, and then select the best using his common sense. That, however, would require far more time than Obi-Wan has in that situation. Instead his action is based on reflexive emotions and instinctive evaluations/feelings, which involve an automatic “filtration” of acceptable and unacceptable actions based on earlier experiences that resulted in reward/punishment (joy, pain etc.), and which kicks in long before rational consciousness. For 13 years his feelings have dictated that he should protect Anakin, and in that specific situation it was therefore impossible for him to deliver a killing blow to stop the threat to his life.

    No, in my scenario Obi-Wan is a human being and thus reacts the only way a human being is capable, namely acquired reflexes and instincts – nothing accidental or blindly about it at all. If you face a man holding a stone in his hand with the clear attention to throw it at you, you will make the conscious decision to try and dodge it, but the moment he throws it at you it’s your instincts and reflexes that decides whether you try dodging the stone by taking a step to the right or the left or by ducking.

    Hmm, we must have different versions of RotS then because I only see Obi-Wan make one slash. And yes he wisely awaited to see if Anakin would combine his jump with an attack – like a force push for instance – and when none came he capitalized on the opening Anakin gave him. He did exactly as his training and experience taught him.

    Yeah, and when I see Messi out dribble an entire defence his moves looks deliberate to me as well, but I know he doesn’t have the time to make a conscious decision about what feint to use on player number 9 and how to get pass player number 5 and so forth. His experience and training ensures that when he observes first one defender and then the other, his body instinctively knows what moves will most likely get him past the obstacles in his path. If he had to make a conscious decision about it, he would easily get stopped.
     
  12. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    You can't separate the injuries from the environment. If your noose starts to bleed in shark infested waters, that would be very dangerous while on land a noose bleed is hardly dangerous.
    Likewise if you give someone a few cuts and then push them into shark infested waters, that would be trying to kill them.

    If you shoot someone in both knees in the middle of a city, then odds are good that this person would get help. If you shoot the same person in both knees in the middle of an empty desert and then leaves them, that is pretty much a death sentence.

    Obi-Wan knows where he is and what kind of environment he is surrounded by. Even ignoring that, Obi-wan would be aware that dismembering a person is fatal unless they get help.
    He is familiar with his weapon and what it can do.
    So if Obi-Wan CHOOSES to dismember Anakin as opposed to a quick kill, then he would be aware of the consequences of his actions.

    An experienced solider would know the difference between shooting someone in the head and in the stomach. The former is pretty much instant death. The latter, slower and much more painful.
    And a soldier would not have to think long and hard about it, this would be in his or her bones.


    Except that Obi-Wan has been fighting Anakin for quite a while now and he has made a number of attacks that if not blocked, would have killed Anakin. He has seen Anakin trying to choke his wife, whom he loves, he tried to talk with Anakin and got nowhere.
    He is very much capable of killing Anakin and has been trying to do exactly that for a good while. But when he gets a clear shot, he chooses to kill Anakin in a very slow and horrible way.



    Obi-Wan is also a trained and very experienced warrior. He is not some newbie that has never been in battle before. He has been trained to fight and kill if need be. By this time he has had extensive experience fighting and killing. He has been at war for three years.
    So his reflexes and instincts would be to kill the enemy if given a chance. But for some reason he doesn't.

    Obi-Wan also has experience fighting former comrades in arms, namely Dooku.
    His emotional bond to Anakin is stronger yes but he did this after a long and grueling fight to the death. By now he knows that Anakin is lost.

    [/QUOTE]

    Look at the film again, he makes the first slash when Anakin is above him and that severs Anakin's left arm. Then as Anakin is coming down, Obi-Wan makes a second slice, severing both legs.
    And Obi-Wan's training and experience would be to kill, not dismember. Unless you think Jedi are being taught to dismember rather than a quick kill.

    Again, the result is far too neat and precise so I think Obi-Wan did intend to dismember Anakin.
    And unlike much of the fight until then, Obi-Wan has a few seconds to think and plan. He saw where he was and even talked to Anakin. And he could see and sense what Anakin was going to do.
    So if Obi-Wan wanted to kill Anakin directly, he could have. He didn't so I am left to try and understand why.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
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  13. Estelita

    Estelita Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2001
    If it helps at all, I thought of a different way of putting it: everyone has a limit. A breaking point. Obi-Wan may be the best-trained Jedi in the galaxy but even he will eventually reach a point where he just can't take anymore. The thing about this limit is that it's hard to say where it is. Obi-Wan may never have encountered it before. Even at the point when he dismembers Anakin he may not have realized that he would reach his limit right after that.

    Well, that's one thought.
     
  14. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    I have to agree with Estelita, Obi-Wan had basically been pushed too far, physically and emotionally. It was a long exhausting fight, he hadn't fully rested after his duel with Grievous and the attack by the clones, and emotionally he's seen and even felt a lot of friends die, had the personal betrayal from Anakin, the more general betrayal by his best friend of the Order in general, he's seen Anakin choking Padme and nearly been killed more than once himself. At this point it's understandable that he might finally reach the point where he says 'to hell with this, and with you' and does act cruelly. His warning 'Don't try it!' was the warning he was prepared to take action, and he did.
     
  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    And yet, you don't get it.

    That's not what I was saying. I said that once he is the Emperor, he is Darth Sidious from then on. He walks like Sidious, talks like Sidious, dresses like Sidious, behaves like Sidious. The Palpatine persona is never seen again.

    Uh, no. It comes from the comics. Shadow Of The Bat #0 from 1994 has Bruce recall that he stopped being Bruce Wayne when his parents died. The episode of "Batman Beyond" called "Shriek" has the following exchange.

    TERRY: "Why were you so sure, those voices weren't coming from you?"

    BRUCE: "Well, first I know, I'm not psychotic."

    TERRY: "I hope your other reason's more convincing."

    BRUCE: "And second, the voice kept calling me Bruce. In my mind, that's not what I call myself."

    TERRY: "What do you call yourself? Oh, yeah. I suppose you would. But that's my name now."

    BRUCE: "Tell that to my subconscious."


    You know what I mean.
     
  16. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    No I don't know what you mean. Batman has a singular overarching theme that has been interpreted by dozens of different writers. Picking and choosing which one's support your argument and applying it to SW is fruitless.

    At the end of the day, Bruce Wayne becomes Batman to avenge his parents, and must maintain a secret identity to protect the interests of Wayne Manor, and depending on the continuity his loved ones as well.

    Yes, Palpatine literally pretended to be another person in order to achieve his ends. Anakin doesn't. When Anakin kills Dooku, helps kill murder Mace Windu, tries to convince Padme to join him, he isn't pretending, he's doing exactly what he wants to do and acting as he normally would regardless of name.
     
  17. The Star Wars Archivist

    The Star Wars Archivist Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2013
    Obi-Wan never wanted Anakin to suffer. This is shown when he asks him to back down at the end of the fight. He wasn't goading him.. he could say things far worse to make Anakin jump and react the way he did.
     
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  18. FARK2005

    FARK2005 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012


    Of course I can separate them, because I try and view the situation from Obi-Wan's POW. The reason you can’t is because you’re sitting safely at home and have nothing at stake. You have the time to carefully analyse every aspect of the situation and draw logical, rational decisions/opinions. A person in Obi-Wan’s stead doesn’t have that luxury. Unless you’re of the opinion Obi-Wan decided to dismember Anakin before Padmé’s ship landed, he does not have time to make such considerations – not until afterwards and by then he is obviously too upset to think rationally.

    Your argument only holds true is Obi-Wan has a supercomputer instead of a brain – and there is certainly no evidence of that.



    Exactly, it would be in his bones – no conscious thoughts required to make the shot, his acquired reflexes take care of it. Problem arises if the enemy is his beloved little brother – the one he has always protected – then he suddenly faces a dilemma – one he doesn’t have time to properly consider in the midst of a fire fight where a second's inattention can kill him. That is when reflexive emotions/instinctive evaluations come into play. And in life and death situations, it’s instincts and reflexes that command your actions, not conscious, rational decisions – there is simply no time for it.



    Since Obi-Wan and Anakin are experienced swordsmen, then no, every attack is not attempt to kill/disable just like every defence is not simply an attempt to avoid being killed/disabled. An experienced swordsman attacks with the purpose of creating an opening in his opponent's defence. Yes, the attack has the potential to be deadly/disabling - it has to be, because a skilled swordsman would never waste energy with blocking a strike that will not harm him, and then the attack is not only pointless but would also endanger the attacker because after he is committed to the strike it gives the defender all the time he needs to make a strike of his own before the attacker has a chance to recover. Likewise, defence is not simply a questions of blocking the attack, but also about creating an opening to capitalize on while the attacker has abandoned his own defence for an attack.

    The only time during the fight Obi-Wan makes a deadly strike is when he stands above Anakin on the table, and even then he certainly is not very eager to make use of the advantage of Anakin’s position, as he takes a very long time to make the swing – plenty of time for Anakin to retrieve his lightsaber and defend himself against it. Before that, Anakin, who is unarmed, come at him with a flying kick and again Obi-Wan fails to capitalize on his advantage – an indication that his mind was not as set on killing Anakin as you claim.



    Exactly, but when the enemy also happens to be someone he cares for deeply and has spent over a decade protecting him, there are conflicting emotions/instincts: one would have him kill his enemy while another would want to protect his brother – an emotional dilemma, and one he doesn’t have the time to rationalize about.



    I’ve watched it several times, I see only one slash and the sound of the lightsaber confirms this is so.

    The movies would certainly confirm that Jedi are taught to do so: Obi-Wan cuts off the lower arm of the two persons threatening him in AotC and ANH, and Anakin cuts off Mace’s arm and Dooku’s hands in RotS – and it makes perfect sense for them to do so – using nonlethal force as opposed to lethal force. That’s what is taught to the police in my country: extreme circumstances aside, the gun should only be used to pacify a perpetrator, not kill him/her.



    Yes if Obi-Wan was a cyborg and not a human, he would have plenty of time for such. It’s true he is aware that he has gained the advantage and, theoretically at least, has some time to consider the action he will take if Anakin jumps, it would be immensely foolish as he would know, being an experienced warrior, because there would be too many unknown factors when facing such an extremely dangerous opponent. Obi-Wan knows he has an advantage, but he can’t plan ahead how exactly how he will capitalize on it, because it all depends on what Anakin will do: Where he’s planning to land – behind Obi-Wan, in front of him, beside him or a little away from him. The height and the speed of his jump. His movement(s) in the air: spinning, going straight, twisting etc. The position of his body when in striking range: will it be open or closed? And where will his limbs be and in which position? The position of his lightsaber: defence, attack, or neither. Will he try and use force push?


    According to you, in those two seconds Obi-Wan has from when Anakin jumps to when he has to react so as not to die, he manage to analyse and processes all this information, decide that he will not give Anakin a quick death, but cut off three limbs because at the same time he has calculated that by doing so Anakin will die more slowly and more painfully. Sorry, but the human brain doesn’t work that way - Obi-Wan doesn’t have time to apply rational consciousness to his action.
     
  19. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    It's always possible that the sheer speed Anakin came at him didn't really give him time to take a really measured stroke in any case, it's something of a Wild West quick draw situation (with lightsabers), an instant reaction without thought - if he missed with a strike to the head or the torso, or just didn't kill Anakin outright, then the duel could theoretically continue only Anakin would have the better position and Kenobi's brief advantage is gone. Aim for the limbs and even if you don't swipe all four then Anakin's unable to duel at full effectiveness and the advantage is still Obi-Wan's should Anakin manage to fight on.
     
  20. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I always figured Obi-Wan's dismembering Anakin was just the move he made when Anakin tried (and failed) to jump over him to higher ground. I don't think Obi-Wan necessarily meant to deal a killing stroke at that moment, just to do what was necessary in the moment.

    I bet he probably wished after the fact that his stroke HAD killed him. But I believe Obi-Wan meant to finish Anakin off after talking to him "You were the chosen one...I loved you, etc." But seeing Anakin burn was too much for him-in fact we can see that in his reaction...then he probably figured there's no way Anakin would survive from all that-and left.
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Works for me. Fits well with the junior novelization too.
     
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  22. The Star Wars Archivist

    The Star Wars Archivist Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 22, 2013

    Spot on Jakob.

    It's clear that Obi-Wan just didn't intend to dismember Anakin the way he did. The quickdraw situation meant that Obi-Wan had to rely on his instincts and thats what lead to Anakin ending up without three whole limbs.
     
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  23. SkywalkerOG

    SkywalkerOG Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2014
    It's simple to me, Obi wan was forced to fight to the death and for his life against someone he considered his brother. He warns him before he jumped then acted on natural combat instincts and struck him down. He is now out of combat mode as he sees anakin suffering and his life is no longer in jeopardy,he vents to the man that has caused him this pain not in anger he was emotionally spent. None of obi wans intention had any malice.