Obi-Wan has issues...

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by PyrhanaJEDI, Oct 15, 2004.

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  1. PyrhanaJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2003
    star 1
    The charges are:
    Obi Wan is jealous and is holding Anakin Skywlaker back.

    see AOTC:

    Obi Wan reports Anakin is, well, arrogant to their "superiors".

    Obi Wan consitently jibes Anakin consistently concerning his inexperience and Padawan status.

    Obi Wan does not want Anakin to participate as a Jedi on his own solo mission.

    Obi Wan remains indifferent towards Anakin's immediate family['s safety] throughout the entire saga.

    etc, etc, etc...

    Obi Wan Kenobi "inherited" Anakin from Qui-Gonn; Obi Wan is obviously taking care of Qui-Gonn's charge. Anakin is like some sort of step child to Obi Wan.

    It is Obi-Wan's attitude that is the main difference in teaching styles versus Yoda.

    I am not sure if any of you are actually familiar with the relationship between a real-life prodigy and their "superior." A lot of times it does turn out to be true that is this "superior" who has "issues", within the relationship. For some unknown reason it is satisfying to create extra steps and duties for a prodigy who is quick on our heels. In this modern age of "player-hating" maybe this is an actual issue that GL is addressing.

    Is Obi Wan gonna let this all out? confess? during the duel? Maybe it is his conscience that makes him change his name [back?] to Ben.
  2. ome Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2004
    star 5
    well...i don't think so...your way of thinking is like anakin's...obi 1 is logic and follows the rules...he's not jealous at anakin...and he didn't think he was ready for a mission of his own because he was just a padawan learner...with an addition of being the chosen one... :)
  3. Moojieba Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2004
    star 4
    There have been reports that both Anakin and Obi-Wan say some pretty powerful, and hurful, stuff at each other during the duel.

    I always assumed that Anakin would blame Obi-Wan for holding him back, and blaming him for his mother's death.

    And Obi-Wan would, as you mentioned, let out all his frustrations that he NEVER asked to traim Anakin, and that he did it only because Qui-Gon asked him to, etc.

    So, to sum it all up. Yes. ;)
  4. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    Obi Wan reports Anakin is, well, arrogant to their "superiors".

    Anakin is arrogant because of his abilities. He casually uses the Force, leaps out of speeders in cheap stunts, and proclaims that "someday, I will be the most powerful Jedi ever!"

    Obi Wan consitently jibes Anakin consistently concerning his inexperience and Padawan status

    Anakin demonstrated how take-charge he could be when he let Padme overrule his decisions and suggest better courses of action. He has communication problems, and uses anachronistic speech to impress people.

    Obi Wan does not want Anakin to participate as a Jedi on his own solo mission

    Great idea, Mace. Send Anakin on a solo mission with the girl he's in love with, and whom he proceeds to seduce. That Obi-Wan, he totally did not know what he was talking about!

    Obi Wan remains indifferent towards Anakin's immediate family['s safety] throughout the entire saga

    Anakin was supposed to let go of his family, as he embraced the Force more deeply. He failed totally in that regard.



    Obi-Wan can be arrogant and unlikable, and I don't think he was a particularly good teacher at times, but I think the fault still lies with Anakin.
  5. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    He was practically stuck with Anakin thanks to QGJ, why do you think he's not big on Anakin. Pretty selfish on Obi-Wan's part. Big deal, it's not the future he wanted. What did he want his own apprentice. What did he not want to go into hiding for 20 years. We have to do what is requested of us. Maybe he can learn a thing or two from Padme.
  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Obi-wan doesn't want Anakin to go off on his own, because he knows that it's going to be a disaster and he was right. Anakin got married and killed a bunch of Tuskens. He wants Anakin to succeed, but not at the expense of the galaxy should he turn.


    Obi-wan speaks of Anakin's arrogance, because he wants them to know that the boy shouldn't be left unsupervised. He's voicing his concerns, which anyone who really cares for Anakin would do. Again, he wants Anakin to succeed as he promised Qui-gon.


    Obi-wan has no clue that Anakin's mother was in grave danger. Neither did Anakin. He just had a bad feeling. Obi-wan had no clue that Anakin's dreams were omens of the future. Had he and had they not been on an assignment, he might've considered going to Tatooine to check on her.
  7. gabe Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    Nobody ever said Obi-Wan was perfect.
  8. PyrhanaJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2003
    star 1
    DS: Ben Kenobi, knew for sure, I feel, way before they threw the first Jawa on the fire, before, before, that more family was in trouble, even if he personally did not believe that Anakin was a Jedi strong in the Force who was privy to his own personal kind of information concerning the haunting position that Shmi was definitely in, just as Anakin DID believe, that surfaced in Anakin's mind again and again.
  9. Darth_Fred Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2004
    star 5
    First Jawa on the fire? Could you please explain what you meant?
  10. ome Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2004
    star 5
    explain the whole post again...
  11. Moojieba Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2004
    star 4
    "Obi-wan has no clue that Anakin's mother was in grave danger. Neither did Anakin. He just had a bad feeling. Obi-wan had no clue that Anakin's dreams were omens of the future. Had he and had they not been on an assignment, he might've considered going to Tatooine to check on her."

    - I agree. But I still think Anakin will irrationally blame Obi-Wan for not letting him go check up on his mother. This duel will be an "airing of the greviences" in many respects.
  12. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    First Jawa on the fire? Could you please explain what you meant?

    He's obviously talking about the Lars's in ANH.
  13. NapoleonSolo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2004
    star 2
    by first Jawa on the fire, I guess you mean A New Hope.
  14. PyrhanaJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2003
    star 1
    Anybody here see Star Wars?

    Ben kinda just sat back with a grin during the moments Anakin's step-brother and sister-in-law was destroyed by the Empire. Did he really have to get to the point of standing around while Threepio and Luke cremated the corpses of slaughtered Jawas to realize that Luke's whole family was in jeopardy? He wasn't going to say a word, even though to himself he knew it was the stormtroopers.
    Skywalkers' personal life means nothing, if not that, then a troublesome interference in his own plans AND lies. Luke was nowhere near being committed to being a Jedi. I guess Ben committed him. Thanks, Ben. What does a Skywalker have to do next?
  15. Darth_Fred Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2004
    star 5
    well, thats the only thing I could think of, too. I just got completely confused by the rest of the post.
  16. lmandarino76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2004
    star 2
    IMO anakin may have turned out better if everyone treated him as obi1. Except then the emperor would've really had him easy.

    Everything I heard obi1 say to anakin was true, he wasn't ready and proved thatby going on a murder rampage and banging padme.

    He was right to report to the council how arrogant anni is.

    anakin wasn't fortunate enough to be brought up in the republic, he had to catch up on alot to be where a padawan should be. Regardless of his natural ability, he was and I would assume still is; a very childish hero.

  17. MILK-HANDS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    Skywalkers' personal life means nothing, if not that, then a troublesome interference in his own plans AND lies. Luke was nowhere near being committed to being a Jedi. I guess Ben committed him. Thanks, Ben. What does a Skywalker have to do next?

    I got the Jawa throwing into the fire, but beyond that... what are you talking about? Are we even watching the same movie?

    I don't really follow much of your remaining paragraph, but the gist of it seems to be that Obi-Wan is willing to sacrifice anyone to ensure that Luke comes with him. I don't see any of that. I see a hermit who may or not be able to feel Owen and Beru through the Force, and who knows that it is too dangerous to try to go back for them. I see him protecting Luke's life, but Luke, much like in ESB, is willing to sacrifice all his own importance for his feelings.
  18. PyrhanaJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2003
    star 1
    This is not the minor piont I wanted to argue, I was really responding to DS, but here goes...

    I'm not implying that Ben Kenobi was willing to sacrifice anything or anybody, but even without supernatural knowledge, which he would lack anyway, as with Shmi, it does not take a General of the Republic to realize that the Larrs were in danger. There is no response on his part. period.

    When naive Luke figures it out, it incidentally runs contrary to Ben's program. Not necessarily Ben's fault, but not Ben's problem either: indifference.

    I am comparing this indifference, also, to how Ben approaches Anakin's dreams of his mother. When Anakin gets his chance, he flies to Tantooine. Anakin knew, obviously, because Shmi dies, and of course, there was just plain inactivity on the part of Obi Wan.
    The main point is all of the Larrs are Anakin's family. Even Luke is a mere extension of the family unit of Anakin's. It is not surprising that so much of all of their[especially her] destiny rests in the whims of Obi Wan, who does not notice his own part, only the part of being a Jedi, the only valuable thing that Anakin can do or be; via his advice of course.

    Please remember this thread is based on Obi-Wan's very real shortcomings as compared to Anakin Skywalker and how even if we as a people don't see ourselves as such, we sometimes run "games" on those whose lives we sometimes we think we deserve. I don't personally. But this stuff DOES happen, even if not in your own life. Or maybe you are in danger when admitting this phenomenon because you, yourself, are the "[above-mentioned] superior."
  19. Moojieba Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2004
    star 4
    "Ben kinda just sat back with a grin during the moments Anakin's step-brother and sister-in-law was destroyed by the Empire."

    - I saw no grin on his face. Actually, his face looked rather GRIM. Watch the scene, Obi-Wan and Luke first encounter the SandCrawler with the slaughtered Jawas. Luke is confused because he thinks they were attacked by the same Tuskin Raiders that had attacked him. Obi-Wan points out that it looked like the work of Imperial storm troopers. Luke began to piece the puzzle together with the droids, just as Obi-Wan was. Luke ran off to go after them, but Obi-Wan didn't want Luke to go because it was too dangerous. And they couldn't risk leaving the droids alone because of the valuable data R2 was carrying. And it was for that reason, Obi-Wan couldn't risk bringing them WITH him to engage stormtroopers in battle. The end result was Luke going alone to discover what happened to his family.

    "Did he really have to get to the point of standing around while Threepio and Luke cremated the corpses of slaughtered Jawas to realize that Luke's whole family was in jeopardy? He wasn't going to say a word, even though to himself he knew it was the stormtroopers."

    - When did he stand around? He told Luke back at his house that Luke should accompany him to Alderan. Luke said no, but that he would take him as far as a place to get him a transport. Obi-Wan said "you must do what you feel is right, of course." On their way to getting Obi-Wan a transport, they came across the dead Jawas...where Obi-Wan analyzed that Imperial stormtroopers must have done this. When Luke returned, Obi-Wan made it a point to say that there was nothing that could have been done. Had he been there, he would have been killed along with his uncle and aunt, and the droids would be in the hands of the Empire, and there would be no hope for the rebellion or the galaxy.

    "Skywalkers' personal life means nothing, if not that, then a troublesome interference in his own plans AND lies. Luke was nowhere near being committed to being a Jedi. I guess Ben committed him. Thanks, Ben. What does a Skywalker have to do next? "

    - Ben did not committ him. Luke decided on his own that he wanted to be a Jedi. Obi-Wan felt confident that Luke would, but never ever forced him. Further proof of this is that after Ben died, Luke continrued to train himself, until he was told to go to Dagobah to complete his training.
  20. lvk1978 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2004
    star 3
    The charges are:
    Obi Wan is jealous and is holding Anakin Skywlaker back.


    In a word -- no. The only person holding AS back is himself. He's arrogant, conceited and impetuous. Great traits for an opera diva, lousy traits in a Jedi.

    Obi Wan consitently jibes Anakin consistently concerning his inexperience and Padawan status.

    Obi-Wan consistently attempts to teach AS in the hows and whys of being a Jedi. I never saw Obi-Wan as contempuous or patronizing. I saw a caring, affectionate tutor who was doing his utmost to try and forge a mature and capable Jedi.

    Obi Wan remains indifferent towards Anakin's immediate family['s safety] throughout the entire saga.

    Obi-Wan realizes that AS's commitment to the Jedi order should be paramount to all else, including family. This might not be "right"; however, it is what it is. As portrayed in Eps. I & II, the Jedi seem to be a rather rigid lot with little to no "wiggle room" in respect to relationships, familial and otherwise. Perhaps Obi-Wan should have allowed AS to approach the Council for a LOA, but who knows if the Jedi are even allowed such benefits? In any case, the ultimate call would have the Council's, not Obi-Wan's.

    Obi Wan Kenobi "inherited" Anakin from Qui-Gonn; Obi Wan is obviously taking care of Qui-Gonn's charge. Anakin is like some sort of step child to Obi Wan.

    Maybe it started out that way; however, as I stated earlier, I saw true affection between the two. AS stated twice that Obi-Wan was like a father to him and certainly Obi-Wan's gundark recollection counts as an affectionate reflection. We, of course, also have the luxury of a future reference in ANH: "...and he was a good friend."

    It is Obi-Wan's attitude that is the main difference in teaching styles versus Yoda.

    True dat, dawg. After seeing five eppies, I've got to say that Obi-Wan certainly comes across as being one of those archetypical "stiff upper lip" Brits. However, that doesn't make him either a bad mentor or a bad person or even a less successful teacher than Yoda would have been. I think Yoda can be a prick when he wants to be and I betcha AS would have brought out that side of him.

    A lot of times it does turn out to be true that is this "superior" who has "issues", within the relationship.

    Of course Obi-Wan has issues. Wouldn't you be at least a little frustrated if the person you're trying to teach thinks he/she knows it all? As for issues, I gotta go with AS as the "King of Issues". Holy cow -- that is one disturbed psycho hosebeast!

    Is Obi Wan gonna let this all out? confess? during the duel?

    I think that this confrontation will certainly be emotional (or as emotional as GL can get). I don't know about anyone else, but I have to be emotionally invested in the situation in order for the upcoming duel to mean anything significant to me. What could be more emotionally devastating/tragic than a fight-to-the-death between a "father" and his "son"? There's got to be some love there in order for it to be anything more than a battle between two anonymous combatants.

    Confess? Confess to what? The only thing he might confess to is that he failed AS as a teacher and that would be incorrect, IMO. Obi-Wan did his best, he did what he thought was right -- but ultimately, it's AS's decision to walk down that dark path. Sure, there were nudges and shoves in both directions, but it will always be AS's decision.

    Maybe it is his conscience that makes him change his name [back?] to Ben.

    Ummm, I have no idea what this means. I guess I always assumed that "Ben" was some sort of alias or a conformity with the local (Tatooine) naming tradition. I guess we'll find out in about 215 days, 9 hours, 4 minutes and 16 seconds.
  21. Okie_Wanna_Smokie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2004
    star 3
    But on the bright side the one "ISSUE" he doesn't have is a "Death Stick" dependancy. So he's got that going for him. Which is nice.

    IH8NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    IH8NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. Darth_Fred Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2004
    star 5
    I agree that Obi-Wan has his share of shortcomings, and plenty of things that he wished he could change in hindsight.

    His rigid view of the code, perhaps.
  23. CBright7831 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2004
    star 4
    OBI-WAN : Why do I sense we've picked up another pathetic life form?

    Obi-Wan thought Anakin was pathetic in the first place.
  24. Old Juan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 1999
    star 4
    What I find hilarious is that Yoda's teaching style in ESB is very similar to Obi-Wan's in AoTC and yet Yoda managed to succeed with Luke whereas Obi-Wan failed with Anakin. To me this suggests that it comes down to the student. The difference is that Luke wanted to learn the lessons and philosophies whereas Anakin didn't. All Anakin really wanted was the mad fighting skills and power but not the responsibility that comes from having those things.

    What happens with Anakin Skywalker in AoTC is the very reason the Jedi Order doesn't allow personal attachments. Call it whatever you like but there is very good reason for it.
  25. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Of course Obi-Wan has issues!

    Can't you see it? He hasn't lasted a single movie yet without getting himself a quick pick-me-up with a glass of booze!
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