Obi-Wan has issues...

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by PyrhanaJEDI, Oct 15, 2004.

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  1. Obi-Twice-Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2003
    star 2
    This is the kind of humility and trust that Anakin has been denied since his arrival before the Jedi Council.

    Trust is earned, not easily given. And it's Anakin who should show humility for the Jedi masters, certainly NOT vice versa.


    Or even better, an excited Obi-Wan could have reported to the Council that the Chosen One had raced to Kamino to take care of this bounty hunter.

    I have no clue what you're talking about here...


    We get a Chosen One, but somehow the Jedi do not receive this gift. They are already all the Jedi they need.

    Anakin's special abilities are not just a gift, but a RESPONSIBILITY the force has burdened him with. Mr. Midichlorian didn't cause Anakin's existence just for fun, but because there was a task to be accomplished - and it was much more serious than to give the boy a chance to impress chicks with force tricks. That's exactely what the Jedi are trying to teach Anakin, and that's unfortunately exactely what he cannot get into his head.

    The Jedi are not willing to fit the Chosen One into their ideals of what a Jedi should be. Tradition used to be the answer, but now the Chosen One is right before their eyes, but they cannot give away/up what they have been taught and what they think they know.

    If Anakin only would stick to the Jedi traditions everything would go fine. All the problems are caused by his inability and unwillingness to do so.


    I am not saying it is someone else's fault Anakin turns to the Dark Side, but most assuredly he did not have any sort of Chosen One status, amongst his peers especially.

    What do you think the "chosen one" is? A title to brag about and to imress childish pincesses with? It's a RESPONSIBILITY and a BURDEN, and Anakin doesn't deserve any special status! The entire problem is that he (and you, obviously) believes that everyone around is just to follow his commands and to serve his will because QuiGon planted that stupid idea of a - as you call it - birthright in his head. That's why he's so arrogant and unwilling to take advice form others.


    First the Jedi thought they could contain any sort of things Anakin might be or might turn into, they thought they could control him and they thought they could handle him. Later, what they really come to terms with, inside themselves, is learning how to fight him.
    No more issues.
    Also a fall to the Dark Side on Anakin's part seems like a real big "I told you so;" looks like passivity to me, but it is par for the course for big-time Jedis.


    The only thing i can say is that ObiWan tried to protect Anakin form Anakin's own weaknesses and to keep him on the right path. As for the rest of this paragraph, i have again no idea what you're saying.
  2. PyrhanaJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2003
    star 1
    What I was saying is that there is room for Anakin to behave like the greatest warrior amongst the Jedi, had he only been given the opportunity. I know it is not exactly what any of the Jedi are used to, and this behavior will always leave the Jedi flying by the seat of their pants, but their real duty should be to not allow Anakin to come to any harm.

    I will also say that if the balance between Anakin's role and the Jedi is not reached then the prophecy cannot be attained whilst Anakin is a Jedi.
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yoda: "Wars make one not great."

    It shouldn't have mattered if Anakin was a great warrior or not. Anakin shouldn't have even have been concerned about that. But Palpatine helped drive that issue home, combined with Anakin's unhealthy attachments.
  4. PyrhanaJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2003
    star 1
    If you think that because Anakin is imperfect that Obi Wan is perfect you are suffering from a failure in your logic.
    Obviously the Jedi are not backing Anakin, they still call the shots all the way to their end. They failed, and they failed without Anakin.
  5. The Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 1999
    star 4
    Jedi would fail if Anakin were still a slave on Tatooine. Anakin has nothing to do with the failures of the council. Anakin's fall is no one but his own. His ambition far exceed his abilities. Obi wan took on the biggest problem child padawan and the emporor over ruled Obi Wans judgments.

    In a way, the Council and Anikan are metaphors for each other. It's their own arrogance that bring about their falls.
  6. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    He doesn't have issues ... just has alot on his mind, :)
  7. flenchgrain Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    I think his issue is having to train such an ungratefull self centered puke face. No wonder he went gray so early.
  8. Lord_Null Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2004
    star 1
    What everyone's dancing around is authority issues.

    Like it or not, when Anakin decided to be trained as a Jedi, he appeared to choose to follow their rules and way of life. I believe that set of rules and way of life, and their adherence to it and bureaucracy were ultimately responsible for the fall of the Jedi, but beside the point.

    In any case, Anakin choosing to join the Jedi order would be like you or I joining the Marines. Just because I am a great wall-climber on the obs course, or I can shoot better than anyone else, they don't make me a General. It doesn't give me the excuse to quit 'sirring' everyone.

    I become a General through a process. Anakin bucked the Padawan process, and it hurt his career. That's all there is to it. And it's because he chose not to follow the rules and the authority which he should be beholden to. His resentment of HIS OWN BAD BEHAVIOR AND IT's CONSEQUENCES create an opening for Palps to exploit.

    Search your heart, you know it to be true...

    I believe that, by ANH, events transpired in such a way that Obi_wan was left without a book to follow, and hence the somewhat unusual set of events in the OT. Back in TPM, Qui-Gon's indulgences were not the following of generally accepted behavior, and that's why Obi-Wan had trouble with certain things..

    A couple of footnotes:

    I think that saying that Obi-Wan just stood by while the Lars were slaughtered is a bit of an overstatement. I have always thought that the stormtrooper attacks probably happened way back when Luke was searching for Artoo/dealing with the sandpeople/recuperating with Ben.

    Last footnote:

    How many times will we see this? Obi-Wan goes into a bar, orders a drink, someone's arm gets chopped off. Talk about a mean drunk. LIghtweight but consistent? ;)


    NULL
  9. BombardTarkin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2002
    star 3
    I think his issue is having to train such an ungratefull self centered puke face. No wonder he went gray so early.

    LOL

    Well this didn't help any ... when you say "puke face," I think of Spaceballs' Pizza the Hut.
  10. Master_Vrikk Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2005
    the reason for Obi Wan and Anikan not splitting up, doing some more "solo missions" as you might call it, is because of the council. If you read in the Episode 3 book, the council thinks that Obi wan and Anikan work best as a team, and they fear if they split them up, that might disrupt their connection with eachother in the force. And also, another reason, the council thinks that Anikan (even though he is a jedi knight) needs just a tad more training, and that if they split them up he might not learn some of his mistakes. Example: being disobediant towards his supiriors.
  11. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    Obi-Wan was smart to keep such a close eye on Ani.
    He was never jealous, he just kept a close eye on
    him b/c let's face it, as Ani grew you could see he
    could be an emotional loose canon. If Obi didn't
    try to guide him through this then who would.
    Well, we know who ended up guiding him, right
    down the dark path hehe.
    We see in ROTS how much respect Obi has for Ani
    and how he praises him for his efforts and abilities.
    Obi acted like a father with a precocious child which
    I think was exactly what was needed.
    Actually, Ani should have been left on Tatooine
    so Vader never came to be ;)
  12. Caliwho Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2005
    star 1
    Obi-Wan is the best character in the whole saga. Nuff´ said
  13. Darth-Trepidor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2005
    star 3
    Obi-Wan didn't keep as close an eye on Anakin as he SHOULD have... OBVIOUSLY!

    Did he NOT notice Anakin wasn't sleeping at the Jedi temple?

    Hmm, I wonder where Anakin is? Oh well, I'm SURE he's not soing anything wrong, probably just having sex with Padme or something...
  14. RedHanded_Jill Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2004
    star 4
    i tell my students this. your parents know you are up to no good but until they are ready to deal with you they will pretend ignorance. same with the jedi. they knew anakin was up to something but did not think to call him on it.

    i think it is ironic that obiwan, the epitome of a jedi, is training the one padawan who is as far removed from perfection. they are on opposite sides of the spectrum.
  15. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Obi-Wan's problem was not staying with Anakin 24-7-365. Anytime they're apart, Anakin is tempted by the Dark Side or becomes a Sith.
  16. Darth-Trepidor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2005
    star 3
    That's Obi-Wan's downfall, not keeping a closer eye on Anakin...

    He KNEW he was dangerous...
  17. Darth_Elijah Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2005
    I dont think Obi-Wan had issues I think he was either afraid of Anakin or afraid for him. Knowing he was the chosen one and knowing that certain things werent right. Hanging with his buddy Palpatine and all. But maybe he noticed when it was all too late. Id also like to add that I think things couldve been very different had somebody else trained him. A dangerous Padawan+unexperienced trainer=grave danger.
  18. Topiltzin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 1
    I think its important to remember the master-padawan dynamic between Qui Gon and Obi, and between Obi and Anakin. Obi Wan was very obediant to Qui Gon, he would voice his opinion and when Qui Gon said "That will be enough from you", Obi Wan listened and obeyed. He understood that there were things that he, as a padawan, was still learning. He HUMBLED himself to learn from his master's teachings even if he did not agree with them.

    In AOTC, Obi Wan says "We will not go over this exercise again Anakin" and Anakin goes on and on until Obi Wan is forced to embarass Ani by putting him in his place, humbling him with "You will learn your place young one." EVEN THEN, Anakin cries and complains to Padme about how Obi is holding him back. In Anakin's mind, he was better than Obi Wan though he was still a padawan. Sidious probably had a lot to do with that.

    I'm not saying Obi Wan is better than Anakin, but I realize that Sidious was behind Anakin's dissention.

    Top
  19. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    I don't know why Obi-Wan would be expected to keep
    an eye on Anakin 24/7. Anakin by EPIII was not some
    child, he was a young man, he shouldn't have needed
    constant supervision. Everyone over-estimated Ani
    and assumed he'd be as skilled at staying away from
    the dark side as he was with a saber.
    And let's not forget they all thought he was the
    Chosen one who would bring balance, not fall into
    the darkside like some gullible puppy.
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Obi-wan knew that Anakin wasn't staying at the Temple. He's known for a while about their relationship, he just kept quiet for his (Anakin's) sake.
  21. Orionsangel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2004
    star 4
    You mean like some sort of unwanted step child.
  22. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    Obi-Wan's issues: he believed and trusted in Anakin much more than was warranted. And so he is betrayed and shocked when Anakin falls to the dark side the moment Obi-Wan's back is turned. Anakin was not even on a solo mission somewhere, he was at "home" in Coruscant, with Padme and all the rest of the Jedi.

    Should Obi-Wan have kept an eye on "Knight" Anakin 24-7-365? Much like one would a dangerous criminal? Or a toddler who is always into mischief?
  23. Jovieve Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Obi-Wan's issues:

    he believed and trusted in Anakin much more than was warranted. And so he is betrayed and shocked when Anakin falls to the dark side the moment Obi-Wan's back is turned. Anakin was not even on a solo mission somewhere, he was at "home" in Coruscant, with Padme and all the rest of the Jedi.

    Should Obi-Wan have kept an eye on "Knight" Anakin 24-7-365? Much like one would a dangerous criminal? Or a toddler who is always into mischief?


    Hit it on the head, Forever. Obi-Wan's issue is that he loved Anakin TOO MUCH. Anakin did not earn his trust nor his love in the end.
  24. FallenKnight88 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 3
    In AOTC, Obi-wan just sees himself as the much older brother who feels he needs to keep a watchful eye on his kid brother before he does something foolish. Similar to a relationship between a 28 year old and his 12 year old brother.

    By ROTS, they are much older and wiser to the point that the two brothers respect each other enough to treat one another as equals.

  25. DantSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2000
    star 4
    One of Anakin's downfalls is a lack of patience. He wants to be THE BEST JEDI EVER and he wants it RIGHT NOW!!!!

    "Obi Wan is jealous, he's holding me back," Anakin claims. But what is he really holding him back from? I mean, Anakin is 19, why the rush to be a full fledged knight right this second? But Anakin just cannot wait until he is truly ready.

    Anakin wants to save Padme, this is his first and foremost concern....however, close behind that is his quest for power. He tells Padme "I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want more." Again, he has no patience. Obi has been holding him close, keeping him in check because he knows that Anakin is not ready for freedom. He is too vulnerable to the dark side because of his passionate, impetuous nature and his lack of patience. The only issue I can see Obi Wan having is that he trusted Anakin a bit too much and let him be too independent. As a result, Palpatine was able to expliot Anakin's weaknesses.

    I don't see how giving Anakin the freedom to do with the Jedi Code whatever he wished would be a good idea. Even under all the moral codes he still falls...without those codes he may have fallen even sooner.
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