Saga Obi-Wan Kenobi: Ewan McGregor vs Alec Guinness

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by darth_mccartney, Mar 17, 2013.

?

Who's the better Obi Wan: McGregor vs Guinness

Ewan McGregor (Episodes I - III) 90 vote(s) 62.9%
Alec Guinness (Episodes IV - VI) 53 vote(s) 37.1%
  1. Polydroxol Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2014
    star 2

    Well, that is different, who would ever pick Guinness as their favorite the version of character? Same reason why anyone would prefer the old Yoda to the new Yoda, it is because which character they find was acted, not written for, better. That means the only reason we are having this debate is because of Guinness's performance in a small, action-less part in an action series.
  2. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Umm…I think you missed the intended point of my post. I don't prefer Ewan's Obi-Wan because he got more action scenes than Guinness. I prefer him because I think his Obi-Wan is better written than Guinness'. So I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the only reason we are having this debate is because of Guinness's performance in a small, cation-less part in an action series." It's quite the opposite for me -- the biggest issue I have with Guinness' Obi-Wan is related to the writing and his character arc.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  3. T-R- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    :confused:[face_hypnotized]
  4. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Namely, the "certain point of view" business. I don't buy it. Obi-Wan knew how Luke would interpret his words -- that there was no way Luke would be able to perceive the meaning that when Anakin became Darth Vader, he was destroyed as he had once been. It would have been far better for Obi-Wan to simply admit the lie and apologize. If he had, I really wouldn't have any problem with the character. But ROTJ seems to be trying to pretend that Obi-Wan did nothing wrong, which doesn't sit right with me. It really has nothing to do with Guinness' performance, though.
  5. T-R- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    in RotS Kenobi says "only sith deal in absolutes" which doesn't make any sense because the Jedi deal in absolutes themselves.
  6. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    I'd say it's more a response to Anakin saying that anyone who isn't with him is his enemy. The Jedi are shown to be willing to negotiate unlike the Sith who demand obedience or enforce subjugation.
  7. T-R- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    It doesn't change the fact that Jedi deal in absolutes, something Kenobi says only sith do
  8. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    Such as?

    They might have rules, yes, but they won't kill you over them. There's a big difference between believing in things absolutely and forcing others to do the same.
  9. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    Yet both are indeed absolutes. It proves even Ewan's Obi-Wan is a contradiction.
    T-R- likes this.
  10. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    I'm not sure what you mean. There's a difference between dealing in absolutes and believing in absolutes, isn't there?
  11. T-R- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    Killing you has nothing to do with dealing in absolutes. As far as forcing others, they take children and train them to follow their rules dogmatically.

    A few examples:

    anger leads to hate monologue

    once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny (lucky Luke didn't believe them)

    no marraige
  12. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    I don't really think so, no. They go hand in hand. Both of the actors' Obi-Wan's contradict themselves and it's not their faults. I think it's down to writing not a character flaw as you imply with Ben's 'certain point of view' line. So many want to say he's lying out right when I don't think he is. It's not Alec/Ben's fault what he says doesn't match up just as it isn't Ewan's that he deals in absolutes while condemning it as Sithly.
    Last edited by Cushing's Admirer, Feb 9, 2014
    T-R- likes this.
  13. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Um…so does everyone else. Everyone is indoctrinated. If you were raised in any form of religion, you were trained to follow rules and dogma. But the Jedi don't make it a point to kill people who try to leave. Dooku left and seemed well-respected by his former colleagues until he started killing people.

    Yes, and? You don't have to follow any of that if you aren't a Jedi and no one is forcing you to be a Jedi. You can leave or, if you break the rules, you will at worst be expelled. I'm not really sure how that is dealing in absolutes anywhere comparable to the Sith...

    Moreover, even if Obi-Wan's statement was a contradiction, what exactly are the implications? At worst, Anakin might believe that only Sith deal in absolutes, thus copying Obi-Wan's opinion. But Obi-Wan's not willfully misinforming someone here.
  14. T-R- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 5
    He's willfully being hypocritcal since he, as a Jedi, deals in absolutes.
  15. PiettsHat Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    So you don't see any difference between, say, moderate Muslims who believe their holy book and have absolute beliefs versus extremists who shoot little girls in schools because they won't live according to that belief? Because that's pretty much the difference between the Jedi and the Sith.

    Obi-Wan might very well believe that only a Sith deals in absolute because a Jedi doesn't demand that anyone who isn't "with them" be their enemy.

    But with Ben's case in ANH, he had to have known that Luke would misinterpret his words and take the literal meaning. At that point, Luke had had no training -- no understanding of the Dark Side. Obi-Wan knew that Luke would misconstrue his words.

    The equivalent would be if your boyfriend/girlfriend asked you if you slept with someone and you said no. But you did have relations with someone else, you just didn't sleep with them, you left. Your statement is technically true from a certain point of view. But you're a liar because in making your statement, you knew how your boyfriend/girlfriend would interpret it.
  16. only one kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 4

    I don't see how you got that understanding of what @Cushing's Admirer was saying from what he wrote. I think he is simply pointing out that Guiness' lines in ANH become a lie because of how clumsily the 'Vader as Luke's father' story was transposed upon the story as it was know up to that point. So that, it is not meant to imply anything about Obi-Wan being a liar but is, instead, poorly written so that the later change in the story creates his lies.

    And, similarly, that Obi-Wan's line in ROTS is not meant to imply hypocrisy in Obi-Wan but is, instead, a poorly written (ill considered) line put into his mouth by the writer(s).

    I think that is what he was saying when he said " I think it's down to writing not a character flaw .."

    Guiness wasn't knowingly telling a lie, his character at the time was not telling any lies. McEwan's line in ROTS is just poorly considered dialogue.
    Last edited by only one kenobi, Feb 10, 2014
  17. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    @only one kenobi: First, I am not a he. :p Secondly, thank you for coming to my defense. Yes, what you said was indeed what I was trying to say. Many of the inconsistencies within SW and character dialogue and arcs are not deliberate lies at all to me. They are proof of poor handling and execution by the creative teams. Particularly in writing and plot development.

    As to the other aspect I will just leave it alone.
    Last edited by Cushing's Admirer, Feb 10, 2014
  18. only one kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 4

    My humble apologies..I see a picture of Peter Cushing and..you know..I know its not you but... I don't know. I'm making excuses for jumping to unwarranted assumptions [face_blush] . At least I know now.
  19. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    It's all right. [:D] I adore Sir Peter hence my Avatar and my new name. But I am a female admirer. I don't think too many men would use admirer in their names, least not in my experience. Anyway, thanks for the tag and the clarifications. :)
  20. Phoenix267 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2014
    I favor both actors who portrayed Obi-Wan Kenobi. To be honest it feels like the same actor portrayed both characters. They act and look similar within the films. But I feel Ewan McGregor is by better at playing Obi-Wan than Guinness. The reason I say that is that the younger Obi-Wan is offered more screen time. The viewer gets to connect to the character and watch them blossom. In the OT I feel that the small amount of screen time takes away from Obi-Wan's connection with the fans. I love the relationship he has with Luke. But he's easily replaced by Yoda as his Jedi Master. In the prequels you have a great bonding with Anakin and Obi-Wan. The viewer is able to connect with Obi-Wan more easily and feel sympathy when he loses his good friend to the dark side.
  21. BenKenobi1138 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2013
    The Sith will kill once a rule is broken, they deal in only absolutes.

    The Jedi have absolute rules, such a marriage, but the Jedi are not ruled by absolutes. There are plenty of Jedi who became married, or broke certain rules. The Jedi were willing to work around this, whereas the Sith were not. That is what Obi-wan meant. Don't take it out of context and blame the writers.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  22. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4


    That's not why I prefer McGregor.
    ezekiel22x likes this.
  23. The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    I don't know. I think this objection comes awfully close to "you're being intolerant of my intolerance!" territory.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Feb 25, 2014
    only one kenobi likes this.
  24. skyrimcat9416 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2013
    star 1
    When I think of Obi-Wan Kenobi, I specifically think of Ewan's Obi-Wan. To me, he is Obi-Wan Kenobi, I personally don't really think of Alec Guinness.

    For one thing, Ewan had a way bigger role in the films than Alec did. Before the PT came out, Obi-Wan was only a minor character in Star Wars. Ewan had to portray the character in all three films as the younger verison of the character, while Alec had to play the older and wiser version of Obi-Wan, yet he barely had anything to do and had a very minor role in the films.

    Ewan McGregor further fleshed out the character as a more relatable and dynamic figure and I think he portrayed the younger version of Obi-Wan perfectly. I think that alone makes him more well known than Alec's Obi-Wan, as Ewan's portrayal of Obi-Wan resonated far more with people.

    So would you say Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is more well known than Alec Guinness' Obi-Wan?
  25. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 7
    It's all a matter of perception. It would likely be influenced by what generation you are and possibly which set you saw first. Personally, I think both are well known as Obi-Wan though Sir Alec is probably thought of as Ben more.