main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Obi-Wan Kenobi has dissolved the Council - permanently

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Beezer, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    OK now that that title got your attention, lemme explain. :D

    We enjoy talking about places that Lucas got his inspiration from - either other films or real life events. So I am watching the 1970 movie "Cromwell" about the English Civil War (did someone say Civil War? Hmmmmmmmm....) starring Richard Harris as Oliver Cromwell and none other than our very own Alec Guinness as King Charles.

    There's this scene where Obi-Wan, er I mean King Charles, is addressing Parliament. He says "Mr. Speaker, you will inform the members of this house that their presence is no longer required by the nation. This Parliament is, by my authority, terminated. Dissolved." In this movie, King Charles is a leader that holds Parliament in contempt and then once they get too uppity, he moves to dissolve them, not unlike our own Palpatine. Didn't work out terribly well for the King. I suppose ultimately it didn't work out terribly well for Palpatine either, though he may have had a bit more success.

    Also, I also couldn't help but notice a character in this movie named "Count Palatine" who is the nephew of the king. That's just one single letter removed from the name of our own villain.

    I'm not sure I've seen this movie discussed as a possible inspiration for Lucas, but geez there's a few things in there that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.....
     
  2. Granger

    Granger Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Nice observations. I would tend to agree that there is a connection there.
     
  3. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2009
    [​IMG]

    You must do what you feel is right, of course...

    I don't know enough about English history to comment on the possible inspiration this film (or the historical events) may have had upon SW, but the 'Palatine' name seems to be more like something taken from the same source GL drew upon - the European term 'palatine' which referred to a high-ranking official from Roman times to the Middle Ages, derived from the association with 'Palatine Hill' in Ancient Rome.

    Closer to home, there's also the character of Senator Charles Palantine in Taxi Driver (1976) - again, probably derived from the same 'palatine' source (rather than directly influencing GL), but you can imagine the name being thrown around in the circle of filmmakers GL associated with during the 1970s, which included the likes of Julia Phillips, Martin Scorsese and Paul Schrader (co-producer, director and writer of Taxi Driver, respectively).

    That's not to discount the possibility that Schrader's or GL's first encounter with the term 'palatine' mightn't have happened with the 1970 Cromwell film - these guys were films geeks, not historical scholars.
     
    Beezer likes this.
  4. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Yeah, I thought the guy's name was "Palatine" and he was a count, hence calling him "Count Palatine." But it turns out that the entire phrase is a title. So there's, like, a "Count Palatine of Saxony" and a "Count Palatine of Bavaria", etc....

    Maybe I was just imaging things and was subconciously influenced by a prominent SW actor being in that movie. :D Still, the (attempted) dissolution of Parliament raised an eyebrow.
     
  5. Ord-Mantell70

    Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Indeed that's a possibility for Palpatine. Although Lucas or others never mentioned Cromwell as a source for names or scenes. To this regard, Darth_Nub's point above better fits with Lucas' aknowledged historical influences for Star Wars and its political background (Roman Republic and Empire, French Empire (1804), Nixon's presidency etc...)

    I'm less convinced by Taxi Driver's Palantine, as pronunciation rather differs, no ? (English's not my mother tongue...)

    Actually, I've too always wondered where that name "Palpatine" came from. Can't recall of anything about it in the Star Wars movies' literature (making of, interviews, SHOSW...).

    I'll check this.
     
  6. Darthmaul208

    Darthmaul208 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2013
    I loved that film and picked up on the line as well. When I studied the American civil war SW reminded me of that.