Obi-Wan Kenobi: Idiot Man-child or Subtle Genius?

Okay, here's the hypothetical situation:

You have been entrusted with the (presumably) only known offspring of a powerful (but potentially unknown) tyrant. You have been asked to hide the child from his father, and keep him under watch, perhaps one day to rise against tyranny and oppression. You are then given one of two options:

(a) Take the child to the sparsely populated homeworld of the tyrant, drop him off with some of the tyrant's relatives, then go "meditate" with a case of Correllian brandy.

(b) Take him anywhere else in the known universe.

What would you do and why?

 

Take him to a desolate place because, Vader and his goonies will have no idea. If Kenobi kept him at Coruscant, they would find Luke in no time.

 

[color=663300]Take the kid to the planet that palpy tells anakin to never go back to. There's too many emotional ties to that place and it makes since that palpy will tell him to not ever go back to tatooine.[/color]

 

Uh Oh... "idiot man-child" I hope that Gay-Len doesn't see that.

a) Subtle Genius- It's fantasy man, not science fiction. Logic is for Star Trek.

 

I'd choose (b), for obvious reasons. The most obvious being that I wouldn't want the tyrant to find me or the child.

This is, potentially, a big, gaping plot hole.

 

Even if Vader doesn't know he has a son until after the events of ANH, and even if he has compelling reasons never to return to Tatooine, you'd think that, just to be safe, Obi-wan wouldn't let Anakin anywhere near Owen and Beru's homestead.

Also, isn't Obi-wan putting Owen and Beru in terrible danger by having them take in Luke? No wonder Owen is so pissed off when Luke mentions Obi-wan. He must be thinking "after all these years, that rat bastard is still going to get us killed."

 

As long as Anakin and Palpatine think Padme (while pregnant) is dead, they wouldn't search for his kids, why would Anakin want to go back to Owen and Beru, for a nice old chat over a mug of blue milk?

 

Yes, and why not at least name the boy Luke Lars, instead of Skywalker? Then Vader'd figure it out for sure! Not even with the force, alls someone would have to do is say "I heard of this kid Skywalker, blew up the Death Star..." and BOOM, he's caught.

 

The most likely explanation, as Slave 2 has said, is that Vader and the Emperor either don't know Padme was pregnant, or think the children died in childbirth. If the Sith did know of Anakin's offspring, I think they would have scoured the galaxy looking for them in the 20 years between Episode III and ANH.

 

perhaps the idea to take the twins to tatooine was something that padme tells obiwan, either on her deathbed or whatever... anyway all she has to say is take these children to owen lars on tatooine anakin would never expect that. If he even knows he has children.

Sure anakin has a history, on tatooine but thus far what history does obiwan have with tatooine? basicly spending maybe a week or something on a ship never really going out. Padme on the other hand spent maybe probably a couple days alone with the lars' and knows them I'm sure well enough to say these people could raise my child ( if they were infact nice enough) I think it would be incredibly ingenious for lucas to make it mostly padme's Idea. He has also sort have set this up, showing she is often rational a calm thinker under pressure and an intelligent person.

The only other alternative is obi wan somehow goes to tattoine and meets the lars' making it somewhat more of a plot hole IMO unless an alternate order of events occurs.

 

Well, I don't think Vader knows of his children. There is no mention of Vader searching for his son in ANH. Only after he ANH does he become obsessed with finding him. Hence, something happens between ANH and TESB that makes Vader realise he does have a son. He then learns about Leia when Luke's thoughts betray him. So, there is no need for Obi-Wan to be particulary sly about hiding Luke. Vader isn't looking and probably has nothing against Owen and Beru so he's keeping out of their way or doesn't care.

I think that explains it.

 

Wow the TPM forum has invaded the Ep3 Non Spoiler Forum!

"Well, I don't think Vader knows of his children. There is no mention of Vader searching for his son in ANH. Only after he ANH does he become obsessed with finding him. Hence, something happens between ANH and TESB that makes Vader realise he does have a son. He then learns about Leia when Luke's thoughts betray him. So, there is no need for Obi-Wan to be particulary sly about hiding Luke. Vader isn't looking and probably has nothing against Owen and Beru so he's keeping out of their way or doesn't care."

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable explanation to me. On top of that, Padme has met the Lars(as was mentioned in above posts) and she knows that they are "good people" and will take care of Luke.

 

"Take the child to the sparsely populated homeworld of the tyrant, drop him off with some of the tyrant's relatives, then go "meditate" with a case of Correllian brandy."

LOL !! For years my friends and I (who love Ben it must be said) have refered to him as 'the drunken old man' ! Here are the facts as I see 'em......

Clearly the stress gets to Ben after he flees the purge- he drinks himself silly and he winds up on Tatoonie with a sore head and not enough money to go elsewhere. And he vaguely remembers that Anakin hates sand, so he'll never come here to 'sand central'.

Figuring that he might as well stay put- and knowing that Jawa's cook up a wicked homebrew- spiked with 'Jawa juice'- which it's clear he loves- Ben drunkenly drops Luke off at the Lars and wanders off to drink himself into shaky old age. The Lars accept Luke- anything to get the drunk outta there and Ben totters off into the aforementioned shaky old age. And I do mean shaky old age- look at how stiff he is in that final duel with Vader !! No one ages that badly without the aid of alcohol- what only about 30 odd years go by and Obi Wan Jedi Warrior deterates that far !? Come on, that alone screams alcohol abuse !!

Further evidence of his drunkeness- dodgy statements like 'Who's the more foolish,the fool or the fool who follows him'. Only drunk people say stuff like that- usually to justify you being with them in some seedy dive at 3 am in the morning. And 'You'll never find a more wreched hive of scum and villany'- well, how come you know it so well Ben old boy- weekend drinking binges when the Jawa hooch got boring ? His whole time on Tatooie was one long drinkin' binge. The man's abilities were shot to hell, look at
that totally uncordinated 'spin' he does during the duel, and his general level of fitness in ANH. Couldn't have been phycically much older than Qui Gon when he died- but look at his condition in comparison !

And the real clincher is his fighting talk
"Stike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possible imagine"
Stripped of all the fancy trappings what he's saying is - " Go on take ya best shot-won't even feel it ! Hic! Ya @$$*£!!!"

And you know that the reason he wouldn't allow Luke to go with him when he want to turn off the tractor beam was cause he was lookin' for some hooch in the Death Star Kitchens. That's prob how Vader found him- forget the Force- the fumes coming of the old fella were like a vapour trail. Benny was drunk as a Lord by the Duel,and all the way through most of ANH-which explains a great many things....

Like all Ben's lies to Luke about his dad- the man couldn't be expected to keep track of stuff like that- not when half his minded was clouded. No not by the darkside- but by the Corrilian brandy- explains how he didn't recognise the droids too.

Yep- neither Idiot nor Genius- merely perpetually drunk.

It all makes sense- Ben took Luke to Tatoonie cause he was drunk and like a lot of things when you're drunk- it just panned out.

Ha ! No plot holes now !!

Yours SHB JR

 

This is how I see it, Obi Wan made the perfect choice. Heres some thoughts.....
a) tatooine had no ties with the empire and was desolate and far away. Plus vader wouldn't go back there because there was simply nothing there for him anymore. His mother was dead. It was just awkward memories and emotions and sadness that he was afraid to revisit. Plus, based on what he vowed at Shmi's funeral it seems as though he never wanted to come back anymore. He was pretty much saying his final goodbyes before he went back to his life. " I won't fail you again"
b) The lars were the perfect family to put him with because they were stable people. By that I mean they weren't exactly going anywhere or talking with many people. They were on their own and isolated. They were also good people and loving and could be trusted, as Padme and obi wan knew. " stay here, these are good people, you'll be safe."
They had also seen what had happened to Anakin and knew of the horrors and would be cautious with his son. They would shield him and keep him safe and protected and most importantly, keep him secret. Owens quote about him being like his father shows this, "thats what I'm a afraid of." He was very cautious and careful about keeping him secret, and this isn't exactly a bad thing. Its good, he needed to be protected. But he also needed to fufill his destiny and go with Obi Wan who waited for the time when it was right to train him. This oppurtunity came, but luke resisted at first. Then fate forced him to follow the path. Lucas talked about this on the TPM dvd. So, the lars were a good family. Plus they had some tie to him and were actually related. This helped the love. And this way Luke wasn't too alienated from his actual family and past. Even though Obi Wan also knew it was best to hide the grim truths from luke until he was ready, it was also important for luke to be with people who actually were family. This made feel luke like he belonged somewhat, otherwise he would flee on his own to find his real past. Much like a foster child may do. By being with is uncle, he felt attached and obligated in a loving way to stay home and help. This way luke would stay contently until the time was right. When the time was nearing for luke to move on and out, Luke became restless and fate eventually kicked in and led him with obi wan to fufil his destiny.

I also agree with merlin that palpatine probably didn't want anakin back there either, but anakin wouldn't have gone back either way I don't think. (as I said in reason a)

Anyhow, I think that there will be plenty more in episode 3 that supports obi wans decision as well as more support to these reasons. It was the perfect choice by obi wan and padme.

EDIT: I also left out that vader didn't know he had children until after ANH, at which point luke has left tatooine and left his mark in a big way by destroying the death star. And he didn't know about leia until ROTJ when he read lukes thoughts, and even then I'm not sure if he knew exaclty who lukes sister was, just that lukes thoughts were dwelling on her. Thats another reason why Obi wan and padme made the perfect choice.

 

I still figure the alcohol angle makes much more sense.....

Yours SHB JR

 

Actually, how's this:

Take evil tyrant's son to live at the place where evil tyrants Mommy is burried.

Obi-Wan knew that Vader would be too ashamed of himself to face his mothers grave.

Play Anikan's "I won't fail you again" line at the burial against his life as Vader... Obi Wan knew he could never bring himself to face up to how badly he had failed her.

 

Anakin has no ties to the Lars. His mom died and he left. They are symbols of his loss. He was jealous of Owen because his mother loved Owen like a son. Anakin doesn't like that Shmi loved anyone besides him. He is very possesive.
Padme actually knew Owen and Beru better. She was with them for 12 long hours and they talked and laughed. I think Padme got a sense from them that they were nice people, and Beru also mentions that she never wanted to leave Tatooine, because she had everything she needed.

 

Obi-wan can make all the rationalizations he wants about why Vader would never return to Tatooine. But how can he ever be sure?

 

I'll have to go with those who think that Vader will be given very good reason to believe that Padme (and the baby) were killed, or that he'll have no reason to suspect that she was pregnant in the first place. I don't completely buy the "hiding in plain sight" theory, or the idea that Padme and Obi-Wan will be so convinced that Vader won't ever return to Tatooine that they feel perfectly safe keeping a Skywalker there with a Kenobi not too far away. Both are enormous risks, and they are risks that were not taken with Leia, who had her name changed, and was not taken to a family member.

I can't imagine Vader knowing he has a child and not looking constantly for him/her. And whatever his qualms about Tatooine might be, I doubt they'd keep him away ("My only family is there, so they might have taken the child in...if Padme and Obi-Wan think that I won't go there, they might put the child there...but I won't go check it out, or even send someone else to. Ah well."). It's just too simple a connection for Vader to make.

I know that the fact that Vader doesn't go to Tatooine's surface in ANH has people thinking that he vowed never to return. I just think him not knowing there's a child out there makes more sense. I suppose Obi-Wan could have simply decided, for whatever reason, that the risk of leaving Luke with the Larses under his own name was worth it (Lucas could always come up with something, who knows). I guess we'll see how it plays out.

 

Obi-wan can make all the rationalizations he wants about why Vader would never return to Tatooine. But how can he ever be sure?

Why would Vader ever want to go back to the Lar's again? And I'm sure Obi-Wan would be watching over Luke all the time, and would sense if he was ever in trouble. How else would he have known the Tuskens were attacking Luke in ANH. If Luke was in trouble I'm sure Obi-Wan would take care of him.

And here's food for thought:

You should not have come back

 

Why would Vader ever want to go back to the Lar's again?

I guess the question I have the problem with is, if Vader suspected he had a child out there, why wouldn't he go to the Larses? They are the only family he and Padme have (if you don't count the cut scenes). Even if they don't have the child, there's a chance they might know what happened to it, or to Padme. He can't even go to ask? Or send someone else to check things out for him if he's so bent on not going back there that he won't look for his child?

And I agree that Obi-Wan was capable of protecting Luke. I just wonder why they took such seemingly unnecessary risks in the meantime. Maybe it's as simple as Obi-Wan thinking he could handle whatever happens, so the rest didn't matter. I don't know.

 

if Vader suspected he had a child out there

Well thats why I think Anakin will believe Padme to have died with unborn child or Padme and his child had been killed by the Jedi or Dooku, finally turning him to the darkside. He then has no reason to go looking for his child.

 

Sorry, didn't see your post earlier in the thread. I agree with you...Vader not having a reason to look for a child seems to make more sense.

 

Well, I just think it's pretty clear that as far as subterfuge is concerned, Obi-Wan is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.

Smart Move #1> Charged with the task of hiding an infant from his tyrannical father, Obi-Wan chooses to bring said infant to the tyrannical father's home planet and leave him at the home of people whose backyard contains the tyrannical father's mother's gravesite.

Smart Move #2> Realizing the need for added secrecy, Obi-Wan does not change the child's distinctive last name to something other than the tyrannical father's distinctive last name.

Smart Move #3> Knowing that the tyrannical father may someday wish to come looking for Obi-Wan Kenobi and wipe him out as he did Kenobi's Jedi bretheren (not to mention settle any personal grudge), Obi-Wan Kenobi moves to the same planet where he hid the child and changes his own name to Ben...Kenobi.

007 he ain't.

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi moves to the same planet where he hid the child and changes his own name to Ben...Kenobi.

.......whilst continuing to dress in the distinctive clothing of a jedi.