Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Old Juan, Jun 23, 1999.
Up. One of the greatest threads in JC history.
This may have been brought up, but I only skimmed real quick.
I read something that likened Obi-Wan to John the Baptist. I think Obi-Wan's destiny is very tragic, but he does believe in it....Good or Bad. His faith in the Force is what truly saved the Galaxy.
I wonder how the knowledge of ATOC's events would have affected most of the posts in this thread. Obi-Wan continues to mature as a character, and he's far more than the padawan we saw in TPM.
Good question, I don't know, I can't remember how most of the posts went anymore. But I know it hasn't really changed my opinion too much, even if some of the specifics are different. I still agree with the basic premise of the thread. Maybe even more so now because we've seen what a truly admirable man has turned into.
Wow...I second the motion. This is a great thread. Kudos for bringing this back up.
Obi-Wan Kenobi is probably my favorite character of the Star Wars movies. He is, without a doubt, the deepest written and most interesting of the characters to come out of the movies, and the PT is only reaffirming my beliefs about him.
However, Episode II is the first real look we've ever had (as an audiance) at Obi-Wan Kenobi the man, as opposed to Obi-Wan the Jedi Knight that we've seen before in TPM and ANH. It really brings to light the tragedy that is his character.
There are little things about Obi-Wan in AotC that are just brilliant (great work by McGregor). Namely, the scene in Dex's Diner. This is the first chance we have to see Obi-Wan operating outside the normal realm of official Jedi encounters or Skywalker family affairs. Here, he is just a man with one of his friends in a familiar setting looking for a little information only a well traveled contact can provide. There is a smile on his face and a twinkle in his eye as he greets Dex. It's here that we first see the more casual Obi-Wan, not being the formal instructor or the student. It's relaxed moments like these that allow fleeting glimpses into the everyday life of Kenobi, apart from the constant plot-movement that occurs in the movies. It offers an insight into what kind of person he is, as opposed to what kind of hero he is.
AotC also gives Obi-Wan a lot more to do in terms of character for the role. He displays an extremely dry sense of humor, is quick on his feet mentally (see his ability to quickly judge the situation on Kamino and move right into character as "Jedi Army Inspector"), and full of an adventureous spirit. It really conveys the sense of a man in his prime.
Which makes it all the more tragic watching ANH, where he has become an old man, thought to be nothing more then a lunatic by the locals. The spring is out of his step, and he has the look of a man haunted by his past. He covers it with the occasional sly smile, but it is really only a cover for what he has lost. It's only when he's facing Vader, during his darkest hour, that he gets that twinkle in his eye one more time as realizes he has a chance to, in death, correct the mistakes he made in life.
I think that you can say what you will about George Lucas...but casting Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi was nothing short of bloody brilliant. He has made this character his own in the PT, and given new life to Sir Alec Guiness's performance in the OT. I'll really never be able to look at ANH again without thinking of Obi-Wan as the man with that wide smile in Dex's diner.
Tragic dosen't even begin to describe it.
Not only is he a sad character, but throughout AOTC no single person gets their butt kicked more and more than he does.
I'll really never be able to look at ANH again without thinking of Obi-Wan as the man with that wide smile in Dex's diner.
I went and watched ANH again this weekend and when Obi-Wan died, I sobbed like a baby.
Obi-Wan has always been my favourite character though I did go off him a bit after TPM. I too watched ANH over the weekend and I just kept thinking "you can't kill Obi-Wan" and it made me hate Vader/Anakin even more. Ewan has nailed Obi-Wan in AOTC and made hima deeply sympathetic character giving him more personality than we seen in ANH. Now you know more about the man it makes ANH even more tragic.
I do believe that Luke is Ben's redemption, he trained two generations of Skywalkers and arguably the more troubled of the two succeeded. You've got to remember, Luke lost first his real parents, then his adoptive parents, and then his father figure Be. Its like being orphaned three times, yet he still did not turn to the Dark Side and ultimately he destroyed the Empire. However, did anyone else think that in AOTC Obi-Wan could have given Aanakin some encouragement at sopme point? He always criticised and never congratulated. I know Anakin showed signs of problems but some times a cuddle is as good as a kick up the backside.
Right at the end he says to Anakin "Good call, my young Padawan," after Anakin says to aim just above the power cells, and he seems very genuine and pleased about it.
There's another scene where Anakin is upset about Padme not knowing him after so many years and Obi-Wan gives him a lecture about not focusing on the negative... and then he adds in a much more warm and friendly tone, as if he's trying to cheer Anakin up "She WAS pleased to see us."
But in some ways, we're TOLD that Anakin and Obi-Wan are close, like father and son, but I would have liked to have seen it for myself. They don't really have enough time together where they're not in conflict to establish this supposedly close relationship.
Ok ive already sent this message to another thread,but just thought id send it to this one too....Obi-wan Kenobi is my favorite character of the star wars saga which is saying alot considering how many brilliant characters are in the saga....But Obi-wan was the very first jedi we ever met & to me embodies the entire spirit of star wars....Like i said he was the first jedi we ever met & the role was therefore defined by sir Alec guiness whom therefore defined the role as a jedi for other actors like Ewan & Liam to learn from & study to portray jedi's....Alec was brilliant as Obi-wan in the OT-he invented the role & part & therefore owns the part,but no more than Ewan does now-he was brilliant as Obi-wan in AOTC & did an excellent job & he as now proved himself as Obi-wan & shown us a different faccet & side to the character-the witty cool & sarcastic side that was only very very subtley touched up on by Sir Alec-Both Ewan & Alec own the role of Ob-wan now joint & you cant take either one of them away from the part,as one cannot exist without the other as they have both invested heart in the role & injected personality into the character.Ewan & Sir Alec are Obi-Wan but as anyone ever noticed that Ewan as Blue eyes & Sir Alec as Brown???how can this be explained i wonder???ive known this little detail since Ewan was cast as the role, as anyone else ever noticed???
I definately agree that Obi is the most tragic character in Star Wars - even more so than Vader.
He is the one who always strives to do things the right way - the way they should be done. Always helping others, always trying to be the model Jedi.
Qui-Gon was right when he predicted that Obi-Wan would be one of the greatest Jedi knights.
He is in a sense responsible for saving Anakin as he guides Luke to his destiny.
My dear sweet Obi-Wan never actually got the recognition he deserved. First he was just a padawan, then he was Qui-Gon's padawan then straight into being Anakin's master. I can't help but feel so sad for him. I think the saddest thing ever is that when Qui-Gon was dying in TPM, he didn't say anything to Obi-Wan about how great an apprentice he's been or anything, Qui-Gon just insisted on using his last words for Anakin. And thanks to that tiny moment where Obi-Wan promised his master that he would train the boy, his life was changed forever, and revolved very much, if not completely, around the Skywalker family...how sad
Well, I'm not sure I'd call Obi the saddest character in the series. He's ultimately the most triumphant, more so than anyone with the name "Skywalker". While I do think that he's redeemed in ROTJ along with Anakin, and I also think he suffers disappointment at several stages in his life, I don't think he loses his basic optimism. The Force is too strongly with him. After all, he basically fixes the wrongs that the Jedi Council (unwittingly?) brings on the Republic, using little more than a single light sabre which he passes on to Luke.
[As an aside, anyone else LOVE the AOTC subtlety in which Anakin is unable to keep his lightsabre in his possession or in working order? Not only is it clever metaphor for Anakin's faltering grasp on the Light side, I think ultimately it's going to give so much more meaning to Obi's ANH line, "Your father wanted you to have it when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it." Ultimately, I think this is going to be wonderful irony. It's not that Anakin wanted Luke to have it, it's that Obi had to keep picking it up.]
When Vader refers to Obi's failure being "complete" in ROTJ, he's not, I think, talking only about faults in Obi's educational abilities. He's talking about the collapse of the whole Jedi response to the Emperor, wth Obi being the personification of that response. He's saying that Palpatine's ability to foresee has eclipsed that of the Jedi Order as a whole. The Jedi responses to each move of the Emperor have been countered and now (that Leia's identity has been revealed to Vader) the Jedi have been fully checkmated. What the Emperor has failed to consider was Obi's personal strength, because he was too busy trying to outmaneuver Mace and Yoda. It is ultimately Obi's interpretation of the Force which finds level in Luke's mind--and it needs no Death Stars nor Clone Armies to succeed. It needs only belief.
What's sad about that?
I pity OBi but We all know that the force is strongest within him
He is the most noble and best Jedi ever.
Great Thread guys.It reminds us why we come here.
I've always liked Obi Wan, and I felt sad for him in the OT. Now watching him in the PT, I feel even sadder for the guy. He is doing his best to train Anakin, but not succeeding, because Anakin is too old for training. He really does care about Anakin and wants him to succeed, but Anakin is becoming very selfish, and will betray Obi Wan. You just know that Obi Wan is going to be really heartbroken, when Anakin is completely lost in the next movie. We will see why Obi Wan is so sad in the OT, when talking about Luke's father.
In a sense, Luke was Obi Wan's second chance. Also, Obi Wan is ultimately essential in saving Anakin from darkness. He trains Luke, and Luke saves his father. So in reality, you can say that Obi Wan did save his former Apprentice at the end.
nice post, DeltaJedi... Obi-wan is definitely the saddest character in Star Wars. He expresses much of the humanity and compassion of Star Wars, through his humor, through his faith in the Force, through his heroism. <sniff>
DarthSkeptical, good point! I think Anakin will once again lose his lightsabre only for it to remain in Obi-wan's safekeeping until he gives it to Luke.
Well, I STILL think the Rancor Keeper is the saddest character in Star Wars. But Obi-Wan is a close second.
I'm glad we got the opportunity to catch glimpses of his personality-- his dry wit in the bar scene with the death stick guy, his sparkling smile with Dex in the diner. Still, he struck me as a lonely person throughout the film. Anakin didn't seem to harbor any true warmth for him-- when he says "he's like a father to me", it sounds rote and forced (but then, so does the rest of Anakin's dialog). Obi-Wan has lost his master, and George Lucas doesn't seem to have any love in the works for him. Poor guy. Ani has Padme, Han has Chewie, then Leia; Luke has his sister to love...who does poor Obi-Wan have, 'sides his sullen soon-to-fall apprentice?
I want to see how he comes to be called "Ben". There's got to be a story there. Boy, I bet he'll beat himself up for years for not believing Dooku when he said Sidious was controlling the Senate.
This is one of the best topics here, and I definately agree that Obi-Wan is a truly sad and trgic character. In a way the Star Wars saga is also a story of Obi-Wan Kenobi, not just Anakin Skywalker.
And few things that are a bit off topic:
-I really feel sad at the end of ROTJ. I didn't before. Even though there's all that celebration, start of the new republic, rebirth of the Jedi and all that, I just feel sorry that two of the greatest men in this saga are dead (Obi-Wan and Anakin). The PT has really changed my point of view for these two characters. I used to think that Obi-Wan was just some wise old man, and that Anakin was basicly an evil character who deserved to die for killing all the Jedi etc. But after seeing the first two episodes I really feel strongly about both of them.
-What also makes me sad is that all the cool Jedi (like Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Plo Koon, Barriss Offee and Luminari Unduli) have to die
Maybe I just take these movies too seriously, but I can't help it
Wow. I can't believe I never posted in this thread before, although I TOTALLY remember reading it all those years ago. As I myself chose to live in spoiler-exile, I haven't been here in years, but it's great to see this thread.
Long live Obi-wan Kenobi, the most self-less and compassionate charecter in Star Wars. He's like the poster-child of what a great Jedi should be. Even his flaws are great.
I agree, Obi-Wan is the greatest character in the entire series. It seems he should have got much much more respect and recognition. I am just hoping in episode III that he will DEFEAT anakin in a 1v1 duel, no anakin tripping or falling. I want to see obi-wan beat him outright by like cutting his arm off or stabbing him with the lightsaber. This would be a great moment for Obi-wan before he must give up his life.
That's a really great point that you bring up, something I really never considered at all before you mentioned it...
Obi-Wan basically has to sit on Tatooine for 20 years and think about the fact that he had, in front of him, all of the necessary pieces to solve the puzzle and stop the chain of events that causes the Empire to rise to power and the Jedi to be systematically slaughtered. He was there, on Tatooine, when the Sith re-emerged. He was there when Count Dooku told him a Sith was running the Senate. He was on Coruscant, standing next to the man who would be Emporer any number of times. His Padawan had shown signs of turning to the darkside, but he just didn't read them correctly. His Padawan had a more then healthy respect for a crooked politician, and he probably passed it off...
Yoda might have been the stronger Jedi and leader of the Council, but Obi-Wan Kenobi was the one who experienced all the facts...trained the boy who would be Darth Vader...He had the power, concievably, to change it all...and he couldn't see what was happening until it was too late.
Next time you watch ANH, when Ben Kenobi sits and tells Luke about the way things were and how they came to be, just imagine him sitting in his hut for 20 years thinking about how he's going to phrase that particular moment, when he has to look back and remember how it all went wrong.
Makes Alec Guiness and Ewan McGregor both look absolutely brilliant...
Yeah, Lucas did something SO RIGHT casting those two roles.