Obi-Wan Kenobi: v4 Fan Club a/k/a Appreciation Society

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Valairy Scot, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Unless his name is Anakin, of course... :D

    People who don't 'get' Obi-Wan's quieter way of expressing emotions, compared with the in-your-face 'look at me' emotions of certain other characters?
  2. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    And why I don't/can't really blame the council at all for what happened today. I totally understand the feelings and believe they're valid if they're there. But it's a hard knock life.
    laloga likes this.
  3. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Yeah, it's a kriffin' hard life for the Jedi during the Clone Wars. And Obi himself ends up having to hurt the people close to him in order to do what was 'right' as we saw in 'Deception'. The Force is a very demanding master.
  4. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Cruel mistress. And then you've got the really cold and aloof "Dooku" type as an example of the ideal carried almost (or definitely) to excess...
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  5. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Except that Dooku serves his own ends rather than the will of the Force (unless you think that his fall was the will of the Force, I suppose).

    Anakin may have had his own agenda when talking to Padme about love, but I tend to agree that compassion is central to a Jedi's life. But of course it's meant to be a detached kind of compassion for everyone, showing no preference. Did any Jedi really achieve that?
  6. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    True, true.
    Does anyone ever REALLY achieve the absolute ideal? (we are seekers not saints...)
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  7. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I'm open to being contradicted, but I don't remember any other Jedi being so tactless in their compliance with the Force's wishes. Qui-Gon is single-minded on his pursuits, I get the feeling, to the exclusion of such things as other people's thoughts and feelings (he cares not a whit what the Council thinks the Force is telling them because - duh, they don't agree with him). For such a tuned to everyone Jedi as some folks point to, he misses the mark horribly at times in how he treats others.
    serendipityaey likes this.
  8. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Yeah, tuned to the Living Force is not the same as tuned to people's feelings...

    (he's still one of my top five characters though!)
    Last edited by Eryndil, Mar 2, 2013
  9. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Tuned to Life writ large, maybe. I like in your fics, Val, how he often has plants and less-than-sentient animals around - things vibrant with instinct and pulsing law-of nature kind of energy but not neccessarily "interiority" - thoughts and feelings, which /of neccesity/ are informed by past and future and complexities that transcend the present moment. It makes a "Living Force" sort of guy mean something more distinct than a "people person" - the Negotiator is probably more attuned to those aspects of individulas, the "Living Force" Jedi to broad currents like Destiny and Purpose - after all, despite their seeming "abstract" quality, these are the things that define "Nature" writ large rather than sentence and free will. This to me makes more sense of Qui-Gon than that broader brush treatement where he's just attuned to "folks" - the direct approach, this-is-the-chosen-one, a solution-will-present-itself, that-should-be-enough-for-you, focus-in-the-here-and-now master. Definitely not per se the most /tactful/ person in the Order. he's well known to be defiant and maverick - which means he doesn't know how to get his way on the sly.
    ??
  10. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Same here. I love him - and so did Obi-Wan, so there's a high recommendation, but flaws make for more depth.
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  11. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Been drinking again, Ruth? [face_laugh] (To make this even funnier, this is how her chapters sometimes return to her when I beta. Either she likes red comments - or I do.)[:D]:* [face_mischief]

    But seriously [face_nail_biting] - how is your shoulder, still painful? Affecting your typing?

    Anyway, as usual, the Writer (Ruth) knows how to put it - Qui-Gon is seriously attuned to "life" but not necessarily sentient folks emotions and thoughts. He's more, well, primal.
    obimom and ruth baulding like this.
  12. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Mmm, interesting way of looking at the Living Force/Unifying Force differences. I just love thinking about these concepts. Generally, Unifying Force Jedi are portrayed as more into destiny than Living Force Jedi - maybe it's a bit like this:

    UF Jedi - "Hmm, this 'Chosen One' prophesy...I wonder what it means."
    LF Jedi - "Look, this boy is the Chosen One."

    :D

    I don't know why but I suddenly got an image of Living Force Jedi like dogs ('come on, come on, let's play ball NOW!') and Unifying Force Jedi as cats ('I'm just going to sit here and watch you while I formulate my plans') [face_worried]
    Last edited by Eryndil, Mar 2, 2013
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  13. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    And that is perhaps why I love cats. Really - that's brilliant you guys.

    [IMG] My dear departed Sam.

    [IMG] The liquor-named girls.
    ruth baulding likes this.
  14. obimom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2010
    star 4

    [face_laugh] Ruth...I thought I was the only one who sent a myriad of mistakes to Val when I sent chapters to her for beta...

    Val, your kitties are so cute...:)
    Last edited by obimom, Mar 2, 2013
  15. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Ha ha!! Yes - yes, that's it, it's all my shoulder. There's a pinched nerve that goes from the spine down the arm into my fingers - wow!! - and that's where ALL the typos come from!! For the record. [face_laugh]
    Going to find a beer in my 'fridge and settle in for some editing on Lineage - YOU my friend will be receiving another example of rampant keyboard abuse later tonight.
  16. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    It's true:
    Unifying Force: How does this prophecy relate to others, to history, to the balance of power, to our decisions, to the future?
    Living ForcE: This MUST BE DONE. This is the fulcrum moment.
    Is Mace considered to have a predilection for one "aspect" of the Force? Who decides these things, anyway?
  17. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    /mind trick/ I never made any typing mistakes. Move along, move along.
    obimom likes this.
  18. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Nah, now you're into technical errors: semi-colons before a conjunctive...I have to admit I looked up three (3!) words in Ch 7 to confirm the spelling and usage. You right: me wrong.
  19. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    Qui seems more following a unifying force path when he seem so single-mindedly intent on fulfilling the prophecy. From what I can tell, uf is more focused on the big picture, large generalities and destiny/prophecy while lf pays little heed to that, instead focusing on details and individuals and everything that's happening now, as well as how every part is connected through the force.

    Wookie seems to imply few Jedi were fully Unifying Force
    laloga likes this.
  20. obimom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2010
    star 4
    I'm guessing my chapter didn't require much of anything to beta...so I went ahead and posted it today, Val...

    But thanks anyway...

    I'll be working on the "last" ...and you heard it, the Last chapter, soon.

    (Unless some brilliant idea hits me to prolong it..but I think it's time to end it.

    Ruth, just read your chapter 6....you always have so much in it...loved it from sleepy-headed start to pain the the rear end...:p
  21. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Sorry, Deb - but I hadn't really found anything to point out and was giving it a "rest" to see if I could dig in deep enough to actually find something - something to 'gift"you with.
  22. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    I agree, I think Qui was very tactless there. Sadly I don't have examples, I get the feeling that's something that happened a lot in general though - this is what the Force says, accept it. I do agree though most others probably handled it better than Qui did in that moment.

    I feel like Mace is very blunt and expects a lot, almost to a degree of being tactless. I don't think he's going to soften any blow. I think of when Anakin tells him about Sidious and I just feel like it would have been better for everyone if Mace had handled Anakin with a little more care then.
    laloga likes this.
  23. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Interesting - or is that supposed to be one of those things that changes over time, as the balance of the Force shifts, etc etc?
  24. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    I was wondering that myself. AFAIK, the movies only ever refer to the Living Force - the Unifying Force comes from EU. Furthermore, EU sources don't all agree on what the UF is. It seems to have different meanings in a PT context and a post-OT context. The development of the concepts and decisions on who prefers each seems to be mostly fanon (with a few exceptions, such as Qui-Gon). I haven't seen any canon source that confirms that Obi is UF. Does anyone know if one exists?

    Mace is a hard one to pin down as he seems to show aspects of both. There's no reason why a Jedi can't be somewhere in the middle, I suppose.
  25. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Oh, Mace is a blunt hammer of "truth" - "deal with it" Jedi. But he's not supposed to be the "ideal Jedi" of the compassionate heart who all the Jedi should have been like, blah blah blah. And blunt does not have to equal tactless (although I suppose Mace could be just as much so as Qui-Gon - can't think of any examples, though).

    It's a combination of how something is said and body language that can make "tactless" at least emotionally softer, shall we say.

    UF & LV is largely if not entirely fanon.

    Obi is supposed to be "UF" especially when young - cited reasons are his "dissing of Jar Jar" and "dissing of Anakin" in TPM as well as his "dissing of Anakin ["my very young padawan"]" in AoTC. LV Jedi are "nice" to people and see their worth...UF see them as actors in the future.

    Supposedly.

    There is an essay in the making.
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Mar 2, 2013