Obi-Wan Kenobi: v4 Fan Club a/k/a Appreciation Society

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Valairy Scot, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    Yoda seems to be the closest to UF - heavy on prophecy and visions. I think some are in the middle in some ways... I'm certain Obi-Wan is Living Force as most the Jedi are, in this era anyway
    laloga likes this.
  2. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    I find The Wookie rather confusing on this matter. Firstly it states: "The concept of the Unifying Force found fewer supporters within the Jedi Order than the Living Force". But, in the same section it says "Many of the Jedi held a similar philosophy, and focused on the flow of time as a whole, ignoring primary use of the Living Force. Voices for the latter espoused a philosophy of "live for the moment" and heavily relied on their instincts. This viewpoint might have allowed the Jedi Order to stave off the conflict that gave rise to the Galactic Empire, as its members lost themselves in looking forward rather than analyzing the unfolding events before them." So it suggests that the Jedi were not using the Living Force enough. I think it's trying to combine several contradictory sources.
    ruth baulding likes this.
  3. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Big fat essay.
    And here are the footnotes:
    1.Obi-Wan disses Jar Jar "what is this?" BUT QUi-Gon nails him first "the ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
    2. Obi-Wan disses Anakin "the boy is dangerous" Hello. He later storms the Temple and slaughters children. Hm.
    3. If Anakin were my Padawan I would call him impudent brat. And mean it. Obi-Wan is a marshmallow.
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  4. obimom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2010
    star 4

    Oh, thats ok, Val...I'm glad to know it wasn't so bad that it came back with numerous "red" marks...although upon a brief perusal I did find a few more flaws that could be fixed...but I might just leave it at this point.

    or maybe fix them real quick, it's easy to do..

    And I had figured that if you did have something of significance, I could edit the post if need be. (although many of my regular readers have now read it...so it would more be for future readers)..

    I have ideas on the final chapter, will be exploring it soon.
  5. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    There's also Yoda when Anakin asks his advice about the dream he's been having.
  6. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    I suppose you don't validate feelings by tip-toeing around them. I mean, from a perspective where emotions cloud judgement and can be dangerous. You cut to the chase and have done with it.
    Yoda telling Obi-Wan to go kill Anakin in RotS is pretty frank and brutal too, though he does offer a sort of "persepctive" to make it more palatable. But he certainly shows no sympathy when Obi-Wan all but begs not to be asked to do it...
  7. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Hmmm, right! That does seem to be the opinion of the 'Qui-Gon was perfect' brigade. As we were discussing above though, it's a simplistic view. Nothing in canon suggests that LF = nice cuddly people person or that UF = unfriendly, unsympathetic grump.

    I tend to see Obi as fairly attuned to the UF, as he seems to have a bit of a focus on the future. He senses something 'elusive' at the start of TPM and that Anakin is dangerous.
  8. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    I see what you're saying with the difference between Mace and Qui. And I agree blunt does not have to equal tactless, but I feel like they can be very, very close in definition. I think a big point is that Qui *should* *naturally* be understanding of Obi's thoughts and feelings, where blunt is expected of Mace, and who knows if he's even really 'close' with anyone anyway. A very small easy change in how Qui treated him would've went a long way, definitely. And i honestly can't think of an example of anyone being more tactless, but I think Qui would use that as his excuse, if that makes sense - that that's how it is.

    Yes
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  9. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    And has to be reminded again and again to keep his focus in the present moment and to be midful of the Living Force.
    By contrast, "Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future" (But not at the expense of the moment/Living Force young Padawan) -- that might be whence the suggestion that Yoda is more "UF" oriented, and Obi-Wan tends that way as well??
    Sorry - that's to Eryndil's post....
    Last edited by ruth baulding, Mar 2, 2013
  10. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    I see that as the result of almost nine centuries of Jedi life. Yoda's got to the point where he fully accepts the will of the Force, no matter how painful it is. I have to be careful not to push my own interpretation on this too much though, as this is one of the things I am writing about, so I have developed a particular viewpoint.
    Last edited by Eryndil, Mar 2, 2013
  11. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    I don't feel like you pick either uf or lf and then you are just one or the other - it seems most of the jedi are mindful of the future, of prophecy and respect those things but almost all follow the living force as the basis of what they do. Lots of eu stuff contradicts and I imagine wookie is combining info from different eras as well - it looks that way. Another strong view of the uf is that the force has no sides, no light or dark side and don't see any jedi in the prequels, only Sidious, who espouse this view.

    The Unifying Force seems to be something distinctly a part of the New Jedi Order and not really a part of the prequels or applicable in that way to Obi-Wan in-universe.
    Last edited by serendipityaey, Mar 2, 2013
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  12. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    This is where is gets complicated because of the contradictory sources. The idea of the UF not believing in Dark/Light is found in some EU books but not in others. I prefer the description in 'The Jedi Path' of a cosmic power that binds space and time and allows you to commune with the past and future (wooo, spooky!), while the Living Force is the life energy that Jedi use for their abilities and to sense living things. This way of looking at it makes it two sides of the same thing, both used by all Jedi but some may have a stronger aptitude for one or the other.

    Wookieepedia does an admirable job of trying to combine all the sources, but it can't square the circle, so to speak.
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  13. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    That certainly makes more sense.

    From wookiee: The Living Force was thought to be present in most living beings, surrounding and penetrating them, thus making all living things connected by it.

    From Obi's lips: The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.

    I think Obi-Wan invented the Living Force. :D
    Last edited by serendipityaey, Mar 2, 2013
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  14. laloga Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2011
    star 2
    I love this, but for entirely the wrong reason. :D
  15. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    And I love you for all those reasons.


    His perfectly formed, firm, soft, unyielding lips...
    Last edited by serendipityaey, Mar 2, 2013
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  16. obimom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2010
    star 4
    Just another perfect feature on a perfect face...=P~
  17. ruth baulding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    [face_laugh][face_rofl]
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  18. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    I suspect that The Wook has taken that description directly from that line of Obi's! That would probably make its definition as 'Living Force' an interpretation by whoever put it on the Wook, but it fits OK.

    It seems that, as with so much in this fandom, it's up to each of us to chose which interpretation we prefer (or to ignore it completely of course!). Because I like the PT Jedi best, I chose the explanation of LF and UF that seems to fit them better and that is less divisive than the 'no dark side' concept. For me, it is two aspects of the same thing, which provide different 'windows' on the Force (in its most simplistic form, the 'present moment' vs the future).
  19. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    It's hard to find pics of Obi smiling. This one is quite sweet.

    [IMG]
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  20. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    Forms of this seem to be in many different places, so it seems to be a widely accepted tennet of the philosophy of the Living Force.
    Last edited by serendipityaey, Mar 2, 2013
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  21. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    Lol, I said the same thing last week. Google images hasn't improved any in a weeks time? :p
    laloga likes this.
  22. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Yeah, and Obi-Wan's "pathetic lifeform" remark was not knowingly directed at Anakin (and it was said with a glint in the eye and a hint of a long running humorous exchange). In fact, the biggest character-interaction-flaw I saw with Obi-Wan was him shutting Jar Jar, a sentient passenger, in with the droids when fleeing Naboo. Say what - that was mean (although in the novel Qui-Gon said to stash him somewhere safe where he wouldn't get in trouble and that was Obi-Wan's definition of "safe").

    Supposedly during the PT era only Qui-Gon was a strong adherent to the LF. If one thought of LV at mark 0 on a sliding scale, and 10 was UF, Qui-Gon was probably a 2 or 3. Obi-Wan probably a 6 at least by ROTS in my view. Ki-Adi & Yoda more like 8. I'm not sure any Jedi was 100% LF or UF.

    Is a person who actively joins the Peace Corps and works to better things for people directly really any more "people oriented" than one who chooses to try to improve things through such things as legislation or public awareness? There's where I think some disconnect shows up in fans - in reality, you can't ignore the forest for the trees nor can you ignore the trees for the forest and that IS the extreme.
  23. benknobi1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 6
    [face_thinking] Darkside Obi-Wan... uh-oh. [face_mischief]
  24. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Ah, but I was hoping that there might be more smiley pics for the older Obi! Apparently not, but I'm sure there were more moments than the ones that can be found on Google. I might try and see if I can find out how to screencap on this laptop.

    Hmmm, I don't think that I will be hearing that 'surrounds us and penetrates us' line in quite the same way from now on... [face_tee_hee]
    Last edited by Eryndil, Mar 2, 2013
  25. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
    benknobi1 likes this.