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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Fanclub Obi-Wan Kenobi: v4 Fan Club a/k/a Appreciation Society

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Valairy Scot, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I've heard that as the total number of Jedi in the Order - but maybe the majority are stationed out and about somewheres. And then I had the imprression that was the big number, but the Order was dwindling rapidly as the Dark Times approached. are you thinking a few hundred younglings (2-12) at the Temple? Or what's your guess?
     
  2. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    I'm going by the total number in the Order, whether on Coruscant or elsewhere. Certainly, the numbers would have dwindled considerably during the Clone Wars. My focus is more on Obi's initiate years, so before 44 BBY. Anyway, here's what I was thinking...

    Firstly, I should apologise to my fellow Obi-Fans for this extremely boring post. I've been considering the possible statistical implications of what little is known about the initiate clans (for my current fanfics in progress) so this is where you may want to move on to something more entertaining. Otherwise, bear with me here!

    So, I've seen various estimates of the total number of Jedi in PT era, from 10,000 upwards. For the sake of this example, I'll go with 10,000 as mentioned before. I'm going to assume that there are roughly the same number of Jedi of each age between 0 and 60 years, after which the number decreases. There are some very long-lived Jedi (eg Yoda) but they are very few and not statistically significant.

    A very rough estimate would give us about 140 Jedi per year. Over 60 years, this is 8,400. The remaining 1,600 (from 10,000) to be spread over the years 60+ with fewer in each year.

    Are you still with me? If so, I admire your persistence and remind you that I gave fair warning about this post! Sadly, I'm not done yet but will continue in a separate post...
     
  3. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    OK, here is my follow up boring post.

    So, according to 'The Jedi Path', younglings are assigned to a clan depending on their strongest trait (eg courage, tenacity, loyalty etc). This must mean that each clan contains initiates of different ages. After all, it's unlikely that all the courageous kids were born in one year, all the loyal kids in another year and so on.

    Assuming that younglings are assigned to a clan at about 4 years old and stay there until chosen as a Padawan (say 11 or 12 years old), that is a big age range. You couldn't possibly teach them all together.

    In AOTC, we see Yoda teaching a class of initiates who appear to be roughly the same age and there are 14 kids in the class. Wookieepedia suggests that they are all from the same (bear) clan.

    Returning to the statistics, we had 140 Jedi per year. So, if we take Yoda's class in AOTC as typical, that would make 10 clans (14 initiates per year in each clan = 140). Each clan would then have 126 members (14 per year, ages 4-12), total of 1260 initiates of clan age.

    However, Wookieepedia also says that there were 20 kids in a clan. This obviously doesn't fit in with the above calculations. Now, I know that Wookiee-P is not always correct and it is also trying to make sense of disparate sources.

    If the original figure of 10,000 Jedi is wrong, that would mean more or fewer clans, but it wouldn't change the number of kids in each clan, as that is based on Yoda's class size.

    So my thoughts on this:
    1. Is it correct that Yoda's class were all from the same clan, or were age mates from different clans taught together?
    2. Could the 20 clan members refer to the rough number *per year*?
    3. Could all the members of a clan be the same age, unlikely as that seems (based on the strongest trait concept)?
    4. If the clans had about 126 members, surely they would need more than one clan master!

    Any thoughts? Or have I sent everyone to sleep?
     
  4. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    I-)


    [face_coffee] 'er, ok, it's math. Meaning - it sounds good to me. Cuz, well, it's MATH.
     
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  5. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    And I always hated mathematics at school!

    It must be about motivation ;)
     
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  6. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I think you should spread the life-span stats over ten decades, calculating in longevity for Force-users and non-human species. that gives you roughly 1,000 in each decade of life. So then you have about 100 per year of life, which comes to two hundred in the creche, 800 in the clans, another 800 to1000 Padawans, etc. -- it's still too many for what's portrayed in the films, the "feel" of the Temple community like in the Yoda scene suggests a smaller community. Also the idea that the loss of a mere 100 on Geonosis could be felt as a blow - it's all out of proportion, to my sensibility.

    I really don;t think it was thought out rigorously... neither was the idea of ten thousand star systems!!! Holy cow, a thousand inhabitable systems is plenty and the Senate building looks more like a thousand to me. Or a "thousand generations" - um, that's 20,000 years. Not really consonant with historical epochs as we understand them. (!!)

    Science fiction tends to blow everything up into these wild proportions , but GL's storytelling is on a very human scale, so those two things don't mesh well when you get down to crunching numbers. I end up for the sake of writing stories just ignoring the really vast numbers and going with what the feel of the Temple is in the movies -
    but I like seeing your algorithms at work [face_laugh]---
     
  7. roguegirl

    roguegirl Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Math has never been a favorite subject for me.but, i love the idea of a fanfic that features Obi as an initiate.btw,can anyone here
    can tell me how to enable disabled cookies(not the edible types).my new tablet's Google cookies got disabled.i don't know how that happened.i'm not techie savvy enough to disable it.i'm using my old tablet now.
     
  8. Angelnumber25

    Angelnumber25 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 31, 2009
    Speaking of Temple life, is there something written somewhere about the difference between a junior and senior Padawan? Is it an age thing, or a test/mastery of a certain level of skill?
     
  9. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    DOYSN: Depends on your story needs.

    I've seen tests and age. I use what works for my story; some sort of combo. I'd say 13-14 definitely "junior" and senior could be equivalent to "high school graduation" or age of majority, or skill level, or 20's.
     
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  10. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    You're a senior Padawan the day you land a hit on your master in a sparring match.
    Which definitely cramps your style when you are apprenticed to one of the finest swordsmen in the Order.
     
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  11. obimom

    obimom Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2010
    I was trying to pick an avatar today, but got involved with other things and didn't. Love your's Ruth.
     
  12. Gkilkenny

    Gkilkenny Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Maybe that's why Anakin was always cranky! He was supposed to be the Chosen one, but he couldn't land a hit on the best sabre combatant in the order.
    Obi-Wan even beat him on Mustafar. ^:)^[face_rofl]
     
  13. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Yes, I have a modest collection, and I was going to revert to Obi-in-chains, which is my favorite, but here he looks sort of deliciously harried, which suits the tenor of my current week. It's a keeper.
     
  14. hlc88

    hlc88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Obi-Wan-in-chains is always good :D

    Did I just say that out loud? [face_devil]
     
  15. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    ha! this is a safe place to say that aloud. Just don;t put it on a bumper sticker. ...
     
  16. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    I can see what you mean and I guess the figure of 100 per year might be closer. With regard to the 'feel' of what we see on screen, I don't find that too hard to believe. The Temple is absolutely huge so a few thousand Jedi might look like almost nothing when they are spread around. As for Geonosis, the way I see that is that the Order hadn't lost so many Jedi in one go since the Sith Wars. I might be wrong, but I think that it was rare for more than about six Jedi to be on a mission together.

    Like you, I don't think there are more than about a thousand senate 'pods' in the Senate building. Maybe the 'unimportant' systems don't get their own senator! As for the '1000 generations', that seems to have been Old Ben getting a bit confused ;)

    I guess that it's all so ambiguous that it comes down to DOYSN (thanks for the acronym, Val!) I will probably get round it by keeping it all rather vague in my fics (no change there!) But I do have to decide whether to give the clan master a name. The poor guy is currently in three different stories and is still unnamed.

    Oh... Obi in chains.
     
  17. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Oh you MUST give the poor clan master a name. He is the unsung hero no matter how many Jedi are out there. The idea of Force-sensitive preschoolers is almost as terrifying as Force-sensitive adolescents, who are so volatile a substance that they must be controlled one on one or else shipped far away from the Temple like explosive chemicals. !!!!

    As for chains... yes. Well. There is that.
    Hopefully you are not combining the "initiate years" with the "Obi in chains" theme, however. [face_laugh]
     
  18. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Where is the Force Ghost?
    Perhaps if one of us feigns being mauled by a wampa or some such, she will appear in shimmering splendor and deign to speak??
     
  19. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    That's more or less what went through my mind - Obi-Wan in chains... ooh, perhaps I could fit that in my fic. Oh, hang on, it's an initiate era story [face_worried]

    I was resisting naming the clan master because I generally avoid that kind of thing. I like to stick to canon (or fanon) as much as possible and creating my own name for this character would make my story inconsistent with, well with the whole body of fanfic I suppose! I guess that universal consistency is a bit too much to hope for! Anyway, now that he's popped up more than once, I feel a bit mean referring to him as 'the clan master' all the time. But, to be honest, he doesn't have a very big role in any of these chapters.
     
  20. obimom

    obimom Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Eryndil - I've lost track of what I've read and what I haven't , esp. on here. It the mentioned story above one you're posting now? If so, where is it? and have I read any of it? I'd like to if not, because I know how much I enjoyed the stories I read of yours on FF.
     
  21. earlybird-obi-wan

    earlybird-obi-wan Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2006
    I have mine from a painting I did years ago
     
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  22. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    You're too kind :D No, the one I'm talking about is one of five fics that I'm currently working on! I hope to get some of them finished (or start posting chapters) fairly soon but it's very slow progress. I think that all my stories on ff.n are also on here now.
     
  23. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Goodness sake, a scholar with a conscience! Ali Alaan is sort of low-grade canon-ish. And you are welcome to borrow Troon Palo, although he is very large and furry and brash. Give the poor man a name![face_laugh] How about Master Anonn Ymous, or somehting like that????:p
     
  24. ruth baulding

    ruth baulding Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Actually I read a fic just a while ago in which somebody (a healer? or something?) is called "Mayddup Naim" - ha ha ha.
     
  25. Eryndil

    Eryndil Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    That would be mine! :D