Fanclub Obi-Wan Kenobi: v4 Fan Club a/k/a Appreciation Society

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Valairy Scot, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    well...unless goes AU, Satine is now fairly high level canon.

    I have no idea of Satine's age, it's purely *my thought" that she might be older (a leftover from a 'toying with plot bunny'). She could be the same, or younger.

    It is conceivable that the two were at least mid-teens (16/17) but after the M/D fiasco at age 13, I don't see Obi-Wan willing to sacrifice all for love unless he were bit older and more sure of his feelings (adult feelings). Even then, personally I don't buy the "willing to leave the Order" although I can see him being a bit torn between want (Satine) and need (Force).

    The other reason I need to work Taria into at least A version of "my canon" is that whole "they needed each other." There's lots of possibilities for him:
    1. Post-Tahl's death and Qui-Gon's coldness - poor boy just needed some tenderness (but he was 16? I hate to play with him doing a "friends with benefit" thing at age 16)
    2. Adolescent hormones at work
    3. Post-Qui-Gon's death and needing comfort (which really makes the most sense to me)
    4. Some other yet-unknown "trauma"
    5. Post-Satine return. Hmm, poor boy is distraught at leaving Satine, turns to a good friend - I can kind of see that. She's a friend, no problem with it being a mutual need thing.

    So, 5 seems the most likely, 3 the second most likely.

    As to Taria: her need? What a nice coincidence her need coincides with Obi-Wan's, isnt' it? Need some GOOD explanation for that, personally.

    Say Obi-Wan was 19 on Mandalore, hooks up with Taria about 20 thru maybe 21...Qui-Gon dies, Satine sends condolences & invites Obi-Wan to Mandalore, he goes, they hook up for a while? Hmmm...

    I'd personally rather not have all these ex-lovers around - out of Siri, Taria and Satine, I'd prefer at most 2 of them. I'm rather certain Siri was a platonic love, but even so... gah.

    Yet being canon enough, I hate to ignore them.

    Hence my attempt to integrate them into my personal canon.
  2. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    I get what they're trying to do - show that Obi is different from Anakin and I can appreciate that for what it is, because it is true and important. This is one way to show it. But the very fact that there isn't a tight, logical context/back-story/canon discredits the believability of the whole thing and makes it easy to discount it, and hard to support it.

    Like I said, this is one way to show how Obi is different - and I'm glad they've at least tried to show Obi is different and given him the time, Siri is another way - I've spent a lot of time and hard work and heart trying to write another *possible* way to show that Obi-Wan was a Jedi and a man, and was able to stay loyal to his principles and his duty - and when I've put so much work into trying to make the context *make sense* and be in character for Obi-Wan it's a little disheartening to see 'canon' just toss ideas out there to write a quick, easy story for Obi-Wan.
    laloga likes this.
  3. Veloz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2004
    star 6
    That's a very cool article, serendipityaey :D, thanks for sharing.
  4. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    I wouldn't necessarily use the word 'cool'... but happy to share! :D
  5. laloga Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2011
    star 2
    There's only so much credence I can give Wook, honestly. It's a great thing when fans can contribute to the fandom, but it also means that the information stored within is not infallible. I try to use the Wook as a reference when needed, a place to get an idea of what "really happened," but SW canon is so vast and nebulous, it's hard to make real, verified statements about such and such...unless something within established, "true" canon, (the movies and the show, imo), specifies otherwise. (Like Anakin Skywalker is the dad of Luke and Leia; that's pretty well "true" because it's explicitly stated.)

    Everything else is - imo - up for interpretation, particularly with doing research for a fanfic, which is, of course, the only reason I would spend hours on Wookieepedia... ;) Seriously though, I've looked up certain articles that - as far as I know - should be static, (with no new content being produced that should affect them), only to come back months later and find all sorts of changes have been made.

    In the end, the information that's available is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it.

    Thanks for sharing the article, Ashley! Yeah, it's also hard (okay, impossible) for me to believe that a 17 - 18 year old young woman would fall in love with a 13 year old boy...but that's apparently what Filoni is saying? Hmm. [face_thinking] Something doesn't add up. (I had to skim it, so I might have missed something crucial - pleas correct me if I misunderstood anything.) Maybe they did meet later on, but whoa...between Cerasi, Siri, Satine and Taria (is she from one of the books?), Obi sure kept busy. :D [face_love] [face_dancing]

    I don't think that he was in "love" with Satine at the time of the recent eps. I think that perhaps he felt something very strong for her when they met during his youth - whenever that was - but over the years he grew up and accepted that what they shared was over and done; it was intense while it lasted, but it was ultimately fleeting. Satine, however, clung to that feeling, perhaps even exaggerating it in her own mind as the years passed (as Anakin sort of did with Padme, right?), so that when she and Obi met again, she felt "sparks" while he felt like he was seeing a dear friend.

    Her death is not cheapened by this, I think, nor is Obi's character. He felt her loss, clearly. The animation showed his pain at her death so well - props to the animators - and I have no doubt that he will be impacted by this incident. But I don't think that he was "in love" with her. She said "I love you" several times and he never said it back, not even as she was dying in his arms, because he could not lie to her. He cannot be anything other than honest. [face_love]
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  6. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    Yes...one reason I probably way overwrote my Siriwan to give context to Obi-Wan giving in to his human side with Siri. He wasn't going to allow human needs to get in the way of Jedi principles unless and until he could integrate the two (and believe Siri could as well).

    I see Obi-Wan having affairs as two possibilities: he doesn't (or in some AUs does with one woman after a hell of a lot of soul searching and denial attempts) or he's so divorced sex from loving relationships (not divorced from friendship or fondness, etc.) that he can embark on one (or more) sexual relationships once he's certain the woman is down with that (a true "friends" but with benefits).

    Both are valid IMHO but I have always leaned towards the former. I suspect that is in part because with one glaring exception, SW is pretty divorced from human needs in a sense, giving me a sense that the Jedi are or have managed to subliminate human needs to satisfaction through the Force (not in that way!!) but that ultimate joy is oneness with the Force and other ways pale in comparison. (There's this one line in Wild Space that captures this "sublime" aspect - and if I'm in the right mood makes me giggle. It's when Obi-Wan is guiding the ship in to the space station.)
  7. laloga Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2011
    star 2
    So, while I was typing all of that, I see that it's not "canon" that Obi and Satine had a big age gap, but I think my reasoning still holds.
  8. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4

    I totally get that Val, I've done the same thing for sure. Of course this new approved info totally does not work with my own story - (when before it fit in okay), that I've spent years and years developing... In a way it's hard to see your work that you love become (even more) irrelevant :/ But there's always still AU...
  9. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    @laloga:

    Per Filoni, Obi-Wan and Satine did love each other, even unto the end, but both "renounced" it in a way to do their duty (probably why Obi-Wan didn't say "I love you, too" back to her).

    Interesting tidbit: JAT wanted to show more vocal emotion when recording that scene,but Filoni told him no, keep it lowkey, the facial animation will carry the emotional weight. And boy did it! Superbly.

    Everything about Obi-Wan's actions were so tender - and the kissing of her hand, there. Sigh. Bittersweet puddle here.
    (If Anakin were there, behind him, I'd sure he'd wonder about Obi-Wan's "lack of emotion."
  10. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    Very beautifully said laloga.

    If it was that article, Val, I don't see where he explicitly states that they *loved* each other until the end... I do believe that he loved her as a friend, and carried that undercurrent of regret, but Filoni's interpretation of Obi-Wan's character just isn't the end all be all, to me personally.
    laloga likes this.
  11. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4

    I agree completely - and this is a huge reason I can't get fully on board with Satine. While she might've *said* she was down with that, her continued emotional reactions to multiple events show me clearly that on the inside she was *not* down with that. Satine was emotionally attached to Obi-Wan in a very substantial way. And older Obi-Wan would be very aware of that and cautious of it, even younger Obi would be, I think, to an extent. And I think Obi 'loved' her as a dear friend until the end, but I don't think it's in character at all for him as a Jedi to harbor *love* for her all that time.

    I think the moment they 'renounced' their love would've happened when they first decided to stick to their duty - and from that point Obi-Wan would've moved on. How would it be in character for him to continue loving her, holding on to it?
    Last edited by serendipityaey, Feb 5, 2013
  12. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    Oh, my, how to put into words: I think Obi-Wan would have left, tucking "love" within him, this "unrequited love" that would smoulder forever, a very non-conditional love that would feel and look to others as this "grand friendship" as you put it. If Satine found someone else she could (also) love and married him, I could see Obi-Wan being happy for her and her happiness. So there wouldn't be any "attachment" about it, and perhaps - perhaps it might have mutated into a different type of love - less passion, deeper than friendship - a depth of caring that could detach.

    It's hard to explain without laboring over my words for the next week or so. :p

    If there had been a massive galaxy wide change akin to but less violent than the decimation of the Order, I could see Obi-Wan and Satine possibly getting together and fanning the flames, although personality wise I'm not sure just how compatible they are. At least they're not as Jedi and Duchess and they wouldn't be as long as both had duty to separate them.
  13. Jedi_Kenobi32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 4
    Mmmm you have a good point there. I can picture a situation like that happening. Maybe Maul's fate in the TCW will end up being a combination of any of the four fates I mentioned. I guess we'll have just have to wait and see.
  14. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    What if Sids uses Maul as an example of Jedi incompetence and interference?
  15. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    No, I'm not sure personality wise they are very compatible
  16. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    They'd certainly be fighting all the way (make up sex for you, Ash) or Obi-Wan would devolve into a "yes, dear" husband. What a bunny!
  17. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    For me? Sounds good! I don't know how long Satine would be okay with that though...


    Both of those scenarios make me cringe painfully. A good relationship should not be those things. A brand new way to tortire his character...
    Last edited by serendipityaey, Feb 5, 2013
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  18. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Hmmm, 'love' is a very tricky concept and can mean so many different things. Here's a real life example - one of my brothers was in a relationship with a woman for some years, and eventually they broke up. However, they remained very good friends (and, in fact, share a house platonically now). I think he would say that he loves her but not in the way that he did when she was his girlfriend. It is very possible for love to change and develop over time - so could this be the case with Obi-Wan and Satine?
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  19. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    Yes, I believe it could (disclaimer: never been in love so no personal insight).
  20. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    Especially with that much time apart, and I believe, with Obi's very pragmatic, level head - it's a different kind of meaning for him
  21. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    That's an interesting article.

    "At the end of the day, you need a powerful kind of parallel and opposite to what Anakin goes through with Padme." Do you? Are they saying that the audience wouldn't see the difference between them without such an obvious parallel?

    "I thought it was important that when you see Obi-Wan at his biggest breaking point as far as emotional reaction, it’s actually around his investment of Anakin. That’s where you see it in Revenge of the Sith, so you still have that high moment for Obi-Wan and his emotions." I'm really glad they made this choice, rather than cheapening that scene in ROTS.

    "That’ll be a hard thing for the audience to accept, because they will want to react, and they’ll want Obi-Wan to react with them. I know James Arnold Taylor wanted to react more, and I was like, “No, this is not where that’s going to happen.” I kept telling James, “We’re going to sell his emotion in the animation. You’re going to feel it when you see his expression, but I don’t want him to say anything. This is not his moment for that.”" Another very good decision, keeping Obi-Wan in character. I suppose that some of the audience would find it hard to accept Obi-Wan's response but, hopefully, those who understand his character will not.

    "I have a rather lengthy backstory that even explains how she (Bo-Katan) became a Death Watch soldier that goes all the way back to the time she and Satine are six. Because to figure out how she got to that point, and yet Satine is a duchess… I have a whole story about who their father was and what their relationships were and everything with Vizsla, going back for a very long time and how that intersects with Obi-Wan Kenobi. I’d give you more detail except I’d like to tell that story at some point in some form of Star Wars media in the future. I’ve discussed it with a couple people, and we’ve started to architect it into the timeline of Star Wars somewhat, just to see where these things fit." So it looks like we might eventually find out just how the Obi and Satine relationship fits into the rest of SW canon.
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  22. serendipityaey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2004
    star 4
    Well, I need a break from romance! [face_beatup] Posted a little Obi-Wan and Dex friendship vig :)
    laloga likes this.
  23. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    Ah, more good stories to read...<rubs hands in glee>

    Speaking of which, Ash, while on the Wook I found some references to Obi-Wan's meeting of Dex but no dates. Any thoughts on that - have you read (comics?) that was in?
  24. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    According to 'The Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi', he was 13 when he met Dex. But that's only C-canon so it could have been superseded.
  25. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 6
    May have to reread that book. I really didn't like it much - it didn't (much) expand on anything we hadn't seen or read elsewhere. It needs a lot more to be worthwhile (for me) - so much of it was just restating from Obi-Wan's POV. I have a partially (!!) done sequel to a story that has Obi-Wan reminiscing about his first experience with Dex (he accidentally got drunk - true accident, that).

    Ash, that story was excellent. EXCELLENT. (As usual.)
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Feb 5, 2013
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