Obi-Wan Kenobi's story

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Feb 9, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    Obi-Wan became my favorite years ago, when I noticed that funny little smile on his face after the cantina fight in ANH. He seems to be taking the situation very seriously, but there's just this little hint that his first chance to kick bootay in 20 years felt reeeeeeaaly good.

    His reaction doesn't seem like "Darkness" to me, although taking any pleasure in physical combat is pretty poor form for a Jedi. I thought his expression looked like mischievous satisfaction, the way you'd feel if you finally got to tell off your obnoxious boss on the day you were getting fired anyway. ("Crazy Old Man": One! Wretched Hive of Scum and Villiany: Zero! W00t!)

    Ok, Obi-Wan Kenobi would never say "w00t."

    Anyway . . . I've always identified with his "Please, Force, make me a pure and peace-filled Jedi--but not just yet" quality. I manage to find it endearing even when he's a bratty twentysomething who needs his mouth washed out with soap.

    For a guy with so many failings, large and small, he did a pretty good job, eh?

    And what's this deal about him not having a theme? Even the freakin' Ewoks have a theme. Yet the "stable center" of the Star Wars Saga has to share "The Force" and the title theme with everybody else.

    Feh upon that.
  2. Jovieve Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    DarthAttorney - His arrogance and his feeling of superiority over other beings is blatantly obvious throughout TPM, his constant nasty comments to Jar Jar ("If they catch us they will crush us.....) and with Anakin ("Why do I get the feeling we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?"). It's almost like he's the example that Yoda is using in AotC when he discusses the arrogance of the Jedi with Mace and Obi-Wan in the Jedi Temple.

    Must disagree with you here. Yes, Obi-Wan said this. He was just telling Jar Jar the truth, that's exactly what would have happened to them. He was being dramatic. He learned the rest from his Master Qui-Gon Jinn ("The Trade Federation are cowards", "Are you brainless?" "The ability to speak does not make one intelligent"). Obi-Wan's old man does a bit of name-calling himself.

    Anakin wasn't there when Obi-Wan spoke to Qui-Gon about picking up another pathetic life-form. Qui-Gon had to go back for them. So unlike Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan was merely jesting with his master, not telling Anakin anything to his face. In fact the one time he does speak loudly enough for Anakin to hear ("the boy is dangerous they all feel it, why can't you?"), Qui-Gon calls him on it and sends him away! ("that should be enough for you, now get on board.") And Obi-Wan does! Wonder how Anakin would have reacted to such treatment when he smarted off/disobeyed Obi-Wan?

    Obi-Wan hardly acts superior. He does nothing other than what Qui-Gon tells him to, he's quiet, supports his master, tells him he has a bad feeling about the Naboo incident and gets blown off by his master, takes being dumped as a padawan in front of the entire Jedi Council - and Anakin! - without a harsh retort and then he apologizes about his behavior to Qui-Gon?!

    Obi-Wan is brash and eager to be sure, but he is also dutiful. The man he calls master - and likely feels as a father - has not a kind word for him after 13 years together at his death but instead tells him to train Anakin.

    I thought the arrogance thing Yoda said almost ironically. EVERY Jedi was being so. From Yoda all the way down to Anakin. He included everyone, IMO.

    And I also disagree. Anakin was damaged goods from the start. Whether Obi-Wan was harsher with him, more lenient with him, more open, more closed off, Anakin was going to fall. He could not get past his slave upbringing - distrustful of authority figures, secretive and unwilling to bend to a life of servitude. He had no power as a slave, he does now as a Jedi, but that's not what Jedi are/do. He was given every opportunity to do the Jedi/right thing. He doesn't and he knows it. Yet he never learns. Obi-Wan did as good a job as anyone else would have, better maybe. IMHO.

    P.S. Ophelia Obi-Wan does have a musical theme, it's just not a big one. Plainitive horns, sounding pure and lonely. You hear it on the original SW soundtrack, and more distinctly at the end of the AOTC ending track medley.
  3. Ewanfan51 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    jovieve

    Wonderful and succinct.
    I loved Qui Gon. As Obi Wans Master he earned a debt of gratitude from me. He certainly raised a very proper padawan, how much of that was Obi Wans own personality and how much was Qui Gons teaching I don't know. I don't however feel he was responsible for Obi Wans innate sense of loyalty and his strength of character. These are traits I feel one either has or does not. Not to the extent that Obi Wan exhibits them. An ordinary person would be crushed by the events he experiences. He continues to have hope for the future against all evidence to the contrary.
    Obi Wan is very much his own man, even when obeying the council he is doing so because he feels it is the right thing to do. I never felt he followed blindly just unwisely. At least he never fell for Palpatines drivel.
  4. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    His arrogance and his feeling of superiority over other beings is blatantly obvious throughout TPM, his constant nasty comments to Jar Jar ("If they catch us they will crush us.....) and with Anakin ("Why do I get the feeling we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?"). It's almost like he's the example that Yoda is using in AotC when he discusses the arrogance of the Jedi with Mace and Obi-Wan in the Jedi Temple.

    First of all, Jar Jar is a pathetic life form. Even Qui-Gon dismisses him until he makes himself useful. And as for what he says about Anakin, well...to quote Comic Book Guy, "It seems we are unfamiliar with sarcasm." He's still sarcastic later in life. "Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?"

    Secondly, his ability to use the Force is never in question, and nothing about Episode I indicates that he won't be able to pass that knowledge on. Anakin is not "destined" to be Vader, that's not why the Force created him. He does have emotional problems, but those would have led him to be Vader no matter who trained him. Even Qui-Gon or Yoda. It wasn't bad training by Obi-Wan.
  5. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    Plainitive horns, sounding pure and lonely. You hear it on the original SW soundtrack, and more distinctly at the end of the AOTC ending track medley.

    I just turned on my CD player. Does it start at 9:59 an run 'till the end? It's not far he has a small theme, ya know? Little Ani had like 5 songs dedicated to his character in Phantom Menace and he was a minor character then. Obi-Wan is a very important part of the PT but he only has a 7 seconds of music time? That's wrong, it's all wrong....
  6. Jovieve Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    On the soundtrack of AOTC on my CD player, Ben's theme starts at 9:40 and runs until 9:59. It's right after the harp playing the love theme and before the flute which finishes the CD. I think the flute reprises the love theme with a little Vader theme thrown in.

    No s--t it's not fair. It's a lovely theme and according to my orig SW CD insert - I think -it almost wasn't Ben's theme either.

    GL just seems to have it out for Obi-Wan.
  7. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I agree.

    First, Luke Skywalker was an Obi-Wan like character, and the central character in the old script. Then he becomes a mentor to Luke, meant to train him over the course of the old trilogy. Then, Lucas decides to kill him off, reducing subsequent appearances to cameos. Then, he makes him a liar by making Darth Vader the father. Then, instead of having Obi-Wan himself discover Anakin, Qui-Gon does it, while Obi-Wan plays sidekick. Only in Episode II is he finally getting his due, and even now there is a price: many of the scenes shot during post-production don't have Ewan McGregor's real beard, but a fake one.
  8. Darth_Shade Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 1
    Obi-Wan definatly gets less than he deserves because he's the only example of the perfect Jedi we get that's a main character in the saga.(I say only because Yoda is only a main in ESB)
  9. Nerak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 3
    Obi-wan is my favortie charater of SW, he's so wise and modest. He's what every human being should be like, or alien for that matter. [face_laugh]

    I never thought it was Obi-wan's fault for the fall of Anakin and the Jedi. But I understadn why people in the GFFA think so.

    He has the best line of SW


    "who is the more fool, the fool who follows the fool or the fool himself"

    and

    "From a sertent point of view"

    obi-won had a tragic life and had seen the worst of all wars, the blockad, the clone wars, the fall of the jedi, the rebelion

    and.... luke's wining [face_mischief] [face_laugh]

    but thats why we like him.

    Nerak out
  10. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 6
    Thanks for the heads-up, Jovieve, but on my CD I have Anakin's theme from 9:40-9:59. If you listen to Anakin's theme from the Ep. I CD, you can hear that the Ep. II "restatement" is a sadder, simpler version of the same music.

    The soundtrack's end is probably the most moving part for me, with Ani's theme shifting into the love theme, which then shifts into Darth Vader's theme. There's just a terrible sense of loss as the music goes from a gentle major key to a glorious minor key, and finally to a kind of sinister dirge. How sad!

    :_|

    Edit: I looked up the theme question on Google, and it seems that the theme I call "The Force" is also considered Obi-Wan's theme. (It's on the AOTC soundtrack, track 13, from 10-21.) Apparently it was originally associated with both OWK and the Force, but as the later fims got made the Force stayed around & Ben didn't. I think of this theme as belonging to the Skywalker family in particular, and then all the rest of the Jedi by association.

    At least John Williams tried. ;)
  11. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I always thought that the Force/Jedi Knight theme was Obi-Wan's theme. You know, that piece that is played as a march at the end of ANH, in the wampa cave in ESB, when Vader kills Palpatine, and in TPM when Obi-Wan summons Qui-Gon's saber using the Force.
  12. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    I actually had the idea a few years ago of writing a novel of the Star Wars films from Obi-Wan's point of view. Only I wanted it to be Joycean.
  13. Jovieve Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Don't know what to tell you Ophelia, that same little snippet of music is on my ANH soundtrack which is obviously B.A. (before Anakin).

  14. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    Ben's theme starts at 9:40 and runs until 9:59. It's right after the harp playing the love theme and before the flute which finishes the CD. I think the flute reprises the love theme with a little Vader theme thrown in.

    It still sounds like little Ani's theme from PM.
  15. DANGER-BOY Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Wow this thread is terrfic! I am really happy to have come into this forum...And I agree with all the sentiments here about Obi Wan's heroism throughout the saga. IMO, he is the link that binds the entire story together, in the OT he is a reminder of the strength of the Jedi and what they stood for and in the PT he is an example of what the Jedi do stand for amidst the crumbling of the Republic, and in both trilogies he is trying (in his own way) to restore order to the galaxy. Since AOTC I have begun to look at he and Anakin's relationship as more like brothers, making it unique in the saga. He and Anakin are more like Han and Luke then they are like Obi and Luke or Obi and Qui Gonn or Qui Gonn and Anakin. Those are all father-son relationships...
  16. Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Also his actions with the death stick dealer speak volume for his respect for sentient beings. He has no qualms about changing this guys mind and sending him off to change his life. He get as loose with his mind tricks as Qui-Gon is in TPM (with Watto for instance). His arrogance and his feeling of superiority over other beings is blatantly obvious throughout TPM, his constant nasty comments to Jar Jar ("If they catch us they will crush us.....) and with Anakin ("Why do I get the feeling we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?"). It's almost like he's the example that Yoda is using in AotC when he discusses the arrogance of the Jedi with Mace and Obi-Wan in the Jedi Temple.

    Well, I dont quite know here. Certainly in TPM, he was an arrogant young padawan. The disdain he shows for Gungans was out of place.

    However, by the time AotC rolls around, I believe he has lost that arrogance. Sure he mind tricked the Elan Sleazebaggano...but it was for his own good...it wasnt like he was doing it for any persona gain.

    But the fact that Obi Wan is willing to come to Mace and Yoda to seek guidance indicates that Obi Wan isnt really arrogant. That he is willing to listen to others and learn from them.




    The big point that I think needs to be kept in mind with Obi Wan is that he was thrust into his position. He was never really a willing participant in the Saga.

    * As an infant he would have been taken from his parents to be trained as a Jedi

    * In TPM, Obi Wan was given an assignment that, unbeknownst to anyone involved, had 2 Sith leading the fight.

    * Obi Wan didnt want Anakin trained, yet he took on the task because he made a promise to a dying man.

    * While watching Anakin grow as a Jedi, Obi Wan was unable to control him. Despite his efforts, Anakin grew into an arrogant, abrasive, dangerous Jedi. Despite all his efforts to help Anakin, Obi Wan simply could not.

    * The Sith that is leading the Seperatists was the Master of Obi Wans master. The man had a connection to Obi Wan that would have made the situation even more difficult.

    * Obi Wan is forced to watch as thousands of Jedi die during the Clone Wars, see Palpatine become Emperor, and watch as his pupil becomes a Sith Lord.

    * Obi Wan is forced to endure 20 years of isolation in the deserts of Tatooine.

    * Obi Wan has to give up his life in order to provide Luke with motivation and guidance.


    At no point in his life was Obi Wan actually a willing participant in the various events. He was very much thrust into each situation. Apart from watching various sad things happen, being forced into these events makes his character extremely tragic.

    But as DA said, Obi Wan would blame himself for Anakins fall, and the surrounding events. Logically he might know that Anakin had to make his own choices....but when you are isolated for 20 years, you really wouldnt think logically....it would be playing on his mind that he was the one that was closest to Anakin...that if there was any person that was able to stop Anakin, it was him. He would never feel like he made the right choices, and would always blame himself.
  17. Comp625 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    Obi - Wan wasn't really one of my favorite characters in the OT, but I still felt bad for his death in A New Hope. The Prequels opened up a whole new world for me and everyone else as we got to see a young Obi - Wan and what his true story holds. We learn about how Yoda did teach him, but when he was a youngling. Then how Qui - Gon Jinn became his Master and a good friend. We also get to see when he firsts meets Anakin and how he is forced to train him in honor of Qui - Gon. In episode two, we get to see a wiser Obi - Wan who stumbles upon Kamino and has to train a arrogant young Jedi (Anakin) that is destined to go to the Dark Side. I could only imagine his emotions after Count Dooku revealed to him about a Sith running the Senate and how since he was Qui - Gon's former master that Obi - Wan should join him. I can only imagine what he goes through in Episode Three, in which we shall all see in a few years.

    What I am trying to say is that now I understand Obi - Wan more, and everyone else probably does as well. The Prequels helped us all see that. Poor Obi - Wan's story is almost a tragedy. Once a gifted Jedi, forced upon an action that he did not want to take part in (Training Anakin) which turns into a nightmare. I appreciate the character more and now he has become one of my favorites. I feel that after seeing more Obi - Wan and his story in the three prequels shall make his death in A New Hope more meaningful. It's really a sad story. I am sure during Episodes three and four he would always think about those times and what he could have done differently. He lost so much. His Master, his apprentice, the Jedi Order along with his fellow Jedi, and finally his life.
  18. Lady-Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 3
    I think that Obi-Wan is the best character in the Trilogy. I know that he seperates the twins and becomes a recluse after that, but who knows he may have had some fun with some ladies, maybe one of Padme's handmaidens
  19. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    For me, Obi-Wan Kenobi is Star Wars. He is my favotite character. He just rules.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.