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Obi-Wan partly to blame for Anakins fall???

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Daniel, Apr 8, 2005.

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  1. Daniel

    Daniel Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 24, 1999
    AnakinBrego,

    How about a "SPOILER WARNING". I read your post and that was info I did not want to know until I saw ROTS.

    Bummer :(
     
  2. Daniel

    Daniel Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 24, 1999
    Lazy-J,

    I think that it was important for Anakin to survive.

    It was Anakin who eventually got lucky enough to kill Palpatine. If Anakin would have died, Palpatine still would have found a powerful apprentice (Maul and Dooku being the proof that there are available Sith apprentices). I don't have to much knowledge of the EU, but I don't know of any other Sith that has turned back to the lightside of the Force like Anakin did.

    (paraphrase)"Forever will the Darkside control your destiny"
     
  3. mjerome3

    mjerome3 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 11, 2000
    I watched AOTC for the first time in a long time last night. Obi-Wan is in no way responsible for Anakin's fall to the dark side. Anakin's choices alone is what shaped his destiny.
     
  4. Darth_Tynaus

    Darth_Tynaus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2003
    True, Anakin is to blame somewhat for his downfall, but I disagree as well. Obi-Wan, the war, even the Jedi Council had a hand in his downfall. Their lack of trust in him, denying him the rank of Jedi Master was too much. I think it was a lot of cirumstance that lead to it.
     
  5. AnakinBrego

    AnakinBrego Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2004
    I'm sorry Daniel, I forgot about how some of us don't want to be spoiled, seriously sorry!!!
     
  6. ObiWanIsTheOne

    ObiWanIsTheOne Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2005
    He would have fallen faster because of Qui-Gon's rebellious tendencies. He would not discourage Anakin's rebellious ways and thus he would fall faster. Qui-Gon would have dissuaded him from being friends with Palpatine? Wrong. You think Obi-Wan liked the fact that he hung out with Palpatine? NOPE. Watch Episode II again. Obi Wan hates the Senate and its members. If anything you never see proof of Qui-Gon disliking them as much as Obi Wan. Obi Wan only blamed himself in ROTJ, because he is humble and self sacrificing. He is willing to take the blame, but it is not his fault. Obi Wan was not overly critical of Anakin. He was just teaching him. Lessons that Anakin never wanted to learn. He was so egotistical and full of himself, that he could never see past his fat head. Thats why Anakin was really easy to manipulate. Obi Wan simply tried to show him the door, Anakin refused to step through it. By the way? Anakin DID respect Obi Wan. Both of them care for each otehr very much. Like Brothers.
     
  7. Jedi-Asajj-Ventress

    Jedi-Asajj-Ventress Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2004
    I agree, ObiWanIsTheOne, Anakin's flaws come from within...I really don't think changing his Jedi Master would have changed that.
     
  8. Starshine

    Starshine Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Anakin`s downfall is mostly his problem and his fault but Obi-Wan had a hand in it. He was too...well Jedi like to understand Anakin.

    I think indirectly he is responsible however Anakin is still the only one who will see Obi-Wan as a reason of his turning.

    This is his viewpoint and that means that`s only Anakin`s how to understand his turning into a Sith.





    (hmm...a little crazy post but oh well [face_thinking] )
     
  9. ExarKunPJ

    ExarKunPJ Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2005
    I totally agree.

    If I was Anakin I would have pulled out my saber and poked Obi Wan ages ago if he'd been like that for 10 years.


    "I hate it when he does that"- Obi wan-AHHHHH that line is so ...ahhh...


    Before AOTC I thought Obi Wan was so cool but now I can't stand him.
     
  10. ObiWanIsTheOne

    ObiWanIsTheOne Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2005
    You can't stand Obi Wan because he dislikes Anakin's stupid reckless ***p? You all have to accept the fact that Anakin is not a good example of a Jedi. He is actually the anti-thesis of a Jedi. If anything, he should have been honored to have Obi Wan as his master. Its not Obi's fault that Anakin is too dim witted and egotistical to learn.
     
  11. Chaotic_Serenity

    Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2004
    I think you're exaggerating Qui Gon's unorthodoxy, though. He's not really that much of a rebel as he is a mild dissenter. After all, he backed down when the Council knocked away all of his alternative options to train Anakin. He was stubborn, but not bull-headed about it.

    I think Qui Gon would have provided something I think Anakin needed: an emotional support center. There was an obvious connection between them from fairly early on that Qui Gon fostered. He also has the experience one would need to drawn up with someone as difficult as Anakin, especially considering some of the apprentices the EU has given him.

    This is not saying that I think Qui Gon is the master I would choose to train Anakin. Other than the idea that I fully support him not being trained at all, I think Anakin needs a mix of Qui Gon's more off-kilter methodology, Obi Wan's gentle but firm teaching approach, Yoda/Mace's more discriplinarian methods, with a modicum of the emotional openess Palpatine showed Anakin, minus the manipulative qualities (isn't that a scary thought, eh?). That's the only way I think I think Anakin could really work through his issues...and as we can see, there really isn't a Jedi Master available for that.

    I think the general attitude of Obi Wan, and really what the PT as a whole is trying to say, is more along the lines of the idea that while Anakin *is* responsible for his actions, his fall is still empathetic due to the factors surrounding it. Obi Wan's monologue in the ROTJ novel is less "This was my fault" and more "I know it's Anakin's own decisions that led to him becoming Vader, but I didn't help the situation by doing this, this, and this."
     
  12. cbrowns4812

    cbrowns4812 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2005
    It is ultimately Anakin's responsibility for falling to the Dark Side, as he chose to do it. But it is also true that, just as in real life, people that surrounded him also had a hand in his fate by how they influenced him.

    Was Obi-Wan over critical? Perhaps he was, but that doesn't make him responsible for Anakin's fall. It is still, however, and element in Anakin's fall.

    It's similar to how I view murderers or rapists who had a "bad childhood." I can appreciate the impact that has on a person, but that doesn't remove personal responsibility.
     
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