Saga "Obi-Wan...there's good in him...I know, I know there is......still."

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Ananta Chetan, Sep 18, 2013.

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  1. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    Padme' speaks her prophetic last words after being informed moments before that her husband had turned to the dark side, become a Sith Lord's new apprentice, killed younglings, murdered the Separatist leaders, planed to eventually overthrow the new Emperor so that together they could become galactic dictators, force-choked her until she lost consciousness, and had done all of this for her, in order to protect and save her.

    Despite this unfathomable blow, her unwavering faith remained in Anakin’s inherent goodness. When everyone else had condemned and given-up on him, she alone had the clarity of perception to still perceive that remaining good in him and somehow this spark of hope she was able to miraculously pass onto her newborn son before her death.

    Until recently I had never really seen the tremendousness of her selfless love, since for me it was always overshadowed by Anakin’s simultaneous transformation into Vader.

    Now I feel that Padme’ was more of an unsung tragic heroine and unseen catalyst in restoring order to the galaxy and redeeming her husband. How do others feel about her role in this regard?
  2. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    To me it sounds like she's attempting to convince primarily herself, and failing.

    But that may be just me--judging by this board, that scene has apparently many interpretations.
  3. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    Battered wife syndrome.
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  4. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    I will never understand Lucas's rationale for having Padme's last words be 'there is good in him' about Anakin, and then she ckeck's out on redeeming him along with her two kids she just had. :confused:
  5. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    What if Padme' had given-up on Anakin? Would Luke still have inherited the hope to redeem him? Without that crucial piece, would the prophecy have been fulfilled? Just a reflection...;)
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  6. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Padme's last words should've been:

    "Obi Wan, these are my last words. I hid the money in the-"
    (dies)
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  7. JediGirl_Angelina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2003
    star 3
    Just as much as Leia inherited a memory of her mother, Luke was present when Padme died and heard her last words. Unconsciously or through the force, that may had been the reason, he believed in his father too.
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  8. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    This may be one of my new favorite fan theories!
  9. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Kind of odd that despite the fact that she still had faith in Anakin she "lost the will to live." She got choked for less than 10 seconds how did she die from that.
  10. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    No Padme died because she misplaced her Plot Armor in her other ship.
  11. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Sure there was good in him somewhere... but Padme knew that the real Anakin would not be back anytime soon.
    Samnz likes this.
  12. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    But he would be back eventually, and that's all that mattered.
  13. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    With some similarities…in the Matrix we see Neo resurrected by Trinity after being killed. Her love and faith help to bring him back to life and are a crucial piece in him fulfilling his destiny as the Chosen One. This also adds the additional dimension to both stories that the Chosen One is still vulnerable and dependent on others and that it is a collective effort in order for them to succeed in their destiny.
  14. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    i reckon the power of Vaders force choke would only need a few seconds to be fair, was the same with Ozzil
  15. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Missing the point - it wasn't the Force Choke that actually killed her, it was the fact that Anakin tried to kill her at all. It broke her heart, and supposedly all her reasons to live ceased to matter.

    It's still pretty weak stuff, though, as far as the execution of the concept was concerned, but it worked well enough for me on the first viewing. Past that you get into the mess of questions regarding her twin babies, the fate of the galaxy, etc etc etc.
  16. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    It works for me. At that point, Padme could be likened to the Force's avatar. The bride of the Chosen One, the impetus for his fall, and the wellspring for the two children. As such, I would imagine that Mother Padme, Full of Grace is channeling God; offering accurate prophesies (unheeded by Obi-Wan, naturally) and subsequently dying just as the cosmos descend into the Dark Side.

    On edit: And if this seems to lack satisfying psychological validity, recall that Luke undergoes a similar, bizarre shift in ROTJ, wherein he's inexplicably set on redeeming his evil father.
    Last edited by drg4, Sep 21, 2013
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  17. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    In many ways, I see Palpatine as a dark reflection of Padmé. Both of them are politicians from Naboo -- but whereas Padmé embodies the characteristics of a good leader (putting her people first and relinquishing power), Palpatine is precisely the opposite. They're also both Anakin's most trusted confidants and two of the people he loves most. Where Padmé tries to help and support him, though, Palpatine fuels his destructive tendencies. And as Palpatine becomes a larger and larger fixture in both Anakin life and the galaxy, Padmé's life is quietly extinguished as the dark times begin.

    I see Padmé's recognition of the good in him as a sign of the fact that not all the love has been driven out. It's still there, but twisted and suppressed, made ugly by his fear, paranoia, anger, and desperation. Luke will reawaken it the same way he reawakens hope for the rest of the galaxy.
  18. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    i do agree which is why I prefer to dwell on the fact that in all reality he killed her on the spot, as the Emperor informs him - "In your anger, you killed her" I choose to see that as his force choke killing her not her broken heart whatever that midwifery droid says. Ive said before I think GL got a bit nervous about Anakin killing her outright which - of course your heart would be broken knowing that the person you love was about to kill you in a rage and had killed lots of children. The birth scene is weakly done really, I guess its very much out of the SW universe comfort zone. It had to be done though and did not spoil the film which i rate as my second fave out of the six. People moan at Padme's giving up when she has just had too kids, there was no reason to make it more mysterious than it had to be, where for the sake of her character I hang on to the thoery that she stayed alive long enough just for her kids to be born. Just by deleting the line - "There is nothing physcially wrong with her" would have made the scene better and is probably the most damaging line in the saga for me.
  19. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    I think Lucas really didn't want Anakin to kill Padmé. However, since he was clearly going for something that was reminiscent of a "self-fulfilling prophecy" with Anakin's fall, he needed Anakin to have a hand in Padmé's death.

    I also think that scene would be more "popular" if they had just cut the "medically she's completely healthy" line. I believe Lucas wanted to make her death more fantastical or fairy tale like, thought. I mean, I don't mind it. The way I see it, losing a "will to live" is like losing hope. It's not something you want to, it's something that happens to you because something occured that "broke" you.

    Her last words?
    She loved Anakin. What she loved about him may be gone, but it wasn't completely destroyed and she probably thought/knew/hoped it would come back someday. It did.
    Last edited by Samnz, Sep 21, 2013
  20. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    he knew he had to kill padme or people would be wondering where she was in the OT, yes the medical droids lines are probably the worst in the entire saga for me
  21. Ananta Chetan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2013
    star 4
    Have we perhaps become more collectively cynical and a bit jaded in regards to accepting mystical story elements in our science fiction? :p A current reflection for me... still not sure.
  22. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    I do agree that the "medically..." line should have been excised. The Saga benefits from properly placed ambiguity, and this is one such juncture.
  23. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    the answer to that is yes, but its still an element i adore personally. In this scene tho the science seems to clash against the mystical. We see Anakin mortally wound her with his mystic powers and then told she dies of a broken heart cos there is nothing wrong with her medically. Broken heart also softens the darkness opposed to being a victim of murder. Maybe GL thought sith was dark enough and wanted a bit of fairytale there. It would have been fine if it had not been for that droid.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  24. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Too bad they both died anyway.
  25. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    And how do you explain Luke's similar opinion? Was he attempting to convince himself? I feel that both Padmé and Luke were right. There was still good in Anakin, despite assuming the persona of Darth Vader. I have never agreed with Obi-Wan's claim that Anakin was more "machine than man". I've always felt that he was resorting to a simple way to explain Anakin's character and decisions . . . and to convince Luke to kill his former apprentice.

    Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader have always been one and the same - from birth to death to Force Ghost. I have great difficulty in viewing individuals - regardless of whether they are real or fictional characters - as solely good or evil. To me, that is not how nature works. One of the reasons why I love the STAR WARS saga in the first place was George Lucas' willingness to portray his characters (or most of them) with great ambiguity. Very few television or movie producers of science-fiction and fantasy refuse to follow this mode of characterization. Or if they are willing, they tend to do a poor job in either creating moral ambiguity or maintaining it in their characters.


    I'm curious. How could Anakin have mortally wounded Padme, when she was able to live long enough to give birth to twins? Is it really so hard to accept "death by broken heart"? And if so . . . why? What is it about the concept of "broken heart" that bothers people so much, especially since a good number of people have claimed that it is possible to die from a broken heart?
    Last edited by DRush76, Sep 25, 2013
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