Padu, KY OBI-WAN vs MACE revisited. (all of you that voted MACE are just wrong)

Well the boards are dead so lets revisit this heated topic. On our trip to C4 we got a preview of the new CLONE WARS animated series. David Filoni director of the new show (and an honorary b.t.w.) said that George had problems with the original Clone Wars cartoon because certain Jedi were way too powerful. EI Mace is not the B.A. that was portrayed in the series. George gave the equation of (one Jedi Master = 15 standard battle droids or 3 super battle droids. A Jedi Master vs 1 Destroyer droid is basicly a toss up.) In other words the Mace that was portrayed in the original series is way too powerful and not cannon at all. So for all you guys that voted Mace, which was basicly everyone I think besides me and PV, does it change you mind any? It's O.K. to admit when your wrong. lol

 

Okay, so we take how b.a. the characters were in the original Clone Wars animated series and convert that using the 1 Jedi = 3 Super Battle droids method, and, let's see, um, and both Mace and Obiwan were portrayed as being way too powerful in the cartoon, then, so, divide everything proportionately that was portrayed in the Clone Wars respectively and, umm, carry the one, and okay, yeah, Mace still wins!! lol

 

Only if we are going by the Clone Wars series alone. The first time around we had all pretty much agreed that Obi-Wan was clearly the better of the pair in the prequels (and of course he lasted a whole extra movie more than mace, and faired a little better in the duel against vader, who killed them both). So adding in both the movies and cartoon, Obi-wan is again the leader. O, and which one of those two did yoda teach to be a force ghost?.... oh, that's right, Obi-wan, cause yoda didn't want to have to spend eternity with a jedi that lost a duel to an old man on the ground and a confused kid, can you just imagine the whining.....pv

 

Please allow me to tear apart your logic there, pacer.

"The first time around we had all pretty much agreed that Obi-Wan was clearly the better of the pair in the prequels"

That just means you were all pretty much wrong, but moving on . . .

"of course he lasted a whole extra movie more than mace"

That means absolutely nothing. Chewbacca lived through all the movies, so by that logic, Chewbacca > all.

"and faired a little better in the duel against vader, who killed them both"

Better than who? Mace? There was no Mace/Anakin duel. Anakin turned on him and cut his freaking hand off, which hardly counts as a duel. If it was a straight up duel, Mace would have had the better odds. Oh, and Palpatine killed Mace, Anakin just helped.

"O, and which one of those two did yoda teach to be a force ghost?.... oh, that's right, Obi-wan"

Qui-Gon didn't contact Yoda till after Mace was toast. He taught Obi-Wan cause HE WAS THE LAST JEDI IN THE FRICKIN UNIVERSE! Even if he did contact him sooner (which he didn't,) there's no guarantee Yoda knew enough to even teach it at that point.

I would like to point one thing out though. When Obi fought Jango, it was everything he had to not get his ass handed to him. When Mace fought him, he was all just like "Oh hey, there's Jango. I think I'll walk up to him and cut his head off, lol!"

Mace > Obi-wan.
Oh yeah . . . and I'm awesome.

 

O, two can play this game my young padawan.....lol
Actually, yoda was communicating with Qui gon all the way back in Ep. II, just watch the scene just after Anikin kills the sand people, as yoda meditate's you can hear Qui Gons voice saying "anakin...No!", Thus proving that Yoda held onto that knowledge till the right jedi came along, Obi-Wan.

Also, This isn't a debate on who the best charactor is, it's about who the better Jedi is, and that leaves Chewie out.

As for Obi-wan v. Jango, a big factor in that fight was Jango's rocket pack, and when was Mace able to beat him, that's right, after Jango's pack was damaged and didn't work anymore, I'd give the win of that duel to the Reek.

And if this was a debate about who the best charactor was, I'd have to go with Han Solo, and using a great line of his. I would have to say "thats great kid, don't get cocky" pv

 

Um, I think I retract my vote for PacerVader as Pres. All hail Supreme Chancilor Val!!!! Oh wait. Did I type out loud again. *$%@! Um, anyway. Whose to say that in Ep2 Yoda knew enough to teach anyone, maybe Qui-Gon was in the process of teaching him. Also, it could be theorized that the ability to communicate is not learned until a jedi becomes one with the force. Yoda did not contact Qui-Gon, Qui-Gon contacted Yoda. And you can't say that Mace didn't have the ability because he didn't appear before Luke. Neither did Qui-Gon. It can also be theorized that the contact can only happen between two Jedi's with a bond. Yoda was Qui-Gons master, Qui-Gon was Ben's, Yoda and Ben -> Luke's ect... My main basis behind Mace being the better Jedi than Ben was his council seat. Mace was saying jump and Ben was saying how high, how far, and how many flips do I need to do before I land..... I think we all should just agree that the best Jedi was that Rodian youngling that had the cereal bowl on his head, I mean Qui-Gon and be done with.

So say Me all.


Where the heck is my Gungan support for rule?!?!?!?!



Valhalla

 

Val your theory is interesting but you are incorrect in your Jedi "family tree" Yoda was Dooku's master, Dooku was Qui Gonn, etc.

But we all know that Quinlan Vos is the best!

 

"Actually, yoda was communicating with Qui gon all the way back in Ep. II, just watch the scene just after Anikin kills the sand people, as yoda meditate's you can hear Qui Gons voice saying "anakin...No!", Thus proving that Yoda held onto that knowledge till the right jedi came along, Obi-Wan."

Alright, I'll give you that Qui-Gon had been talking to Yoda for a while. I remember hearing that line, but I never really understood it till now. However, this doesn't change mine and Val's point that we don't know if he was able to teach it at that point, or that he had even been taught himself. Plus, Mace was too busy owning every asshat that came along to be bothered with it.

"Also, This isn't a debate on who the best charactor is, it's about who the better Jedi is, and that leaves Chewie out."

My point was not that Chewie > all . . . that was sarcasm. The point was that you can't say how much better one Jedi is over another by comparing how many movies they lasted.

"As for Obi-wan v. Jango, a big factor in that fight was Jango's rocket pack, and when was Mace able to beat him, that's right, after Jango's pack was damaged and didn't work anymore, I'd give the win of that duel to the Reek."

Jango lost his pack in the Obi fight as well. (He seems to have bad luck with that.) That duel was a bit of a draw. Mace just flat out owned him though. Flamethrower? Psshh. Dual blasters? Please. It was so effortless . . . Mace puts more efforts into his dumps than he did annihilating Jango. Did I mention he did it after fighting a droid army, which he went back to right afterwards? I didn't? That's because it scares me how awesome he is..

 

WHY ARE YOU TRYING 2 KEEP A BROTHER DOWN ???
MACE HE'S A BAD MOTHER****** SHUT YOU'RE MOUTH , BUT I'AM TALKIN' BOUT MACE ...DAMN RIGHT !

 

Now, I know I missed this whole issue the first time, but here's my 2 cents. For me, when it comes right down to it, Obi-wan is the better jedi. There are several reasons. He killed General Grievous. He took on a *****ing cyborg using four *****ing lightsabers. And he still won. Also, Anakin killed Mace effectively and he was nothing more than a confused, whining kid. Then he goes all dark side, becomes Darth Vader, and Obi-Wan still hands "The Chosen One" his ***. Then again, that's just my opinion.

 

1st of all, how do you know that Mace wouldn't have had an easier time with Grievous? For all we know, Mace would have taken about 4 seconds to kill Grievous, not unlike his fight with Jango.

Also, for a second time, Anakin did NOT kill Mace. There was no duel. There was no test of skill between them. Imagine you're standing next to your buddy arguing with him. He decides to impulsively pull out a sword and cut your hand off. Does that mean he's a better fighter than you? No. That just means he's an ass. Mace didn't expect for a second that Anakin would turn on him like that. If Obi-Wan was in Mace's position at that time, that same thing would have happened.

And finally, yeah, Obi beat Anakin . . . but it took him 30 minutes and he needed a terrain advantage to do it. The only thing that saved him was the fact that he taught Anakin all his moves, which is why they matched each other blow for blow. Once again, there's nothing here to indicate that Mace wouldn't have had an easier time owning his face. He probably would have finished the job too, unlike Obi-Wan.

So far, no one has offered even a single shred of evidence that Obi-Wan is more skilled in any way. None . . .

 

Ok, William, for their sake let's give them 2 things. Anakin was instrumental in the defeat of Mace. Mace, being one with the force realized that he was in a pivotable postion, the time when the "chosen one" would make his ultimate choice. Light or Dark. .......(Two drumsticks and a breast please... Extra Crispy. And extra gravy for the potatoes...... Sorry, need food. Fat Warrior is about to die, Fat Warrior needs food badly)..... He dropped his guard to allow Anakin to decide and accepted whatever the Force willed would happen.

As far as Obi-One beating Anakin. Bantha poop! You heard me. Bantha Poop!!! Obi one didn't beat Anakin. Anakin beat Anakin. His anger and cockyness, along with Obi One having high ground caused Anakin's defeat.

 

ok, so heres my two cents-Mace--cause he is a jedi master for some reason, and he is just a better fighter than obi-wan, he had a lot more ease overall fighting jango even if the reek played a small part in it.and obi-wan fighting grievious-grievious wasnt much more than a machine, if you noticed grievious didnt have the best reaction time like when obi-wan jumped clear over him and it took grievious like a good three or four seconds to figure out where kenobi was. and when anakin chopped off maces hand-that was an impossible fight cuz the dark side clouded maces judgement and he still almost won if that little **** anakin hadnt stepped in and thought about his prospects with palpy...also what about obi wan sayin anakin was a better jedi than himself, well if you think that mace is stronger than anakin(which is another seperate but interesting argument)then obi wan just gave you the answer right there.So thats what i have to say.

 

Well well well.hehehehehe. This war is lasting longer than expected and please allow me to destroy whatever credibility any obi lovers might have. Obi wan did not beat Maul.Obi wan did not beat Dooku...ever.Obi wan did not beat Grievous.Obi wan did not beat Anakin.If theres a running theme in this saga its that "evil" is vastly stronger but way overconfident. There was never a battle where good clearly won.However evil has a problem putting them away.Why was Darth Maul making sparks with his saber(I believe this proves that Maul DOESN'T have the sith lightning ability) above Obi wan. Why does Dooku stop the advancing droid army on Geonosis? Why does Palpy tell the Star Destroyers not to engage the rebel fleet? Evil is crazy. But I digress. Back to Obi.
Obi vs.maul(Obi fails to use force speed to help qui gon.qui gon dies.)
Obi vs Dooku( Obi fails to teach Ani about force lightining.Both fail.)
Obi vs. Dooku 2 (Obi just failed)
Obi vs. Grievous (Obi was hanging over an edge.failing when he got lucky and for Ben in Ep. 4 to say theres no such thing as luck.thats just crazy for him to say that.I know I forgot Obi vs. Jango and I think Obi was more on a recon mission than a search and destroy mission. He did fail though.
As for the CLONE WARS cartoon. I still hold it as true. Just cause George changed his mind and said 15 supers against a jedi= jedi losing most of the time doesn't work for me.Also remember George changed his mind about Han shooting first and none of us buy into that. And from what I seen in that new Clone Wars cartoon.Anakin clearly should have been able to jump over Obi wan in Ep.3 with ease.
The only real argument you can make for Obi wan is that he did face these challenges and he did live through them but I have to think that if Mace had been in any of those battles he wouldnt even break a sweat( okay maybe Maul test him). I dont dislike Obi wan.I just think his best years were spent hiding.

 

Here here!