PT Obi Wan's true intention on Mustafar?

I was re-watching ROTS today and as always, loved the duel to pieces. However, something kind of stuck out at me this time that, although I always knew was said, never truly thought it through as much as I should've.

So it's assumed Obi Wan follows Padme to Mustafar to confront Anakin primarily. Whether it's to attempt to turn him back, or kill him before he does anymore damage, he goes there with a mission he intends to complete, right?

Now, everytime a thread has popped up on the JCF asking how/why Obi beat Anakin, I've always said the same thing. Obi was on the defense, letting Anakin basically exhaust himself and lose control of his emotions, his fear, his anger, etc knowing he wasn't properly trained to control them in his advantage yet. Obi Wan was always waiting for "the high ground" which brings me to the title of the thread.

Obi tells Anakin the duel is over, he's got the high ground. Anakin is insulted and goes ahead and jumps anyway, which is what we would assume Obi Wan knew he would do, and hoped he would do. So why does Obi Wan then warn:

"Don't try it."

Was it just out of the love and concern he still felt for his former apprentice, and that he didn't want to have to deliver that blow to him? Then why show up to kill Ani in the first place? He must've known by this point that Anakin/Vader was going down swinging if need be, and that he would not be returning to the light by Obi's guidance. What did Obi Wan anticipate would happen if Anakin did listen to his advisory?

 

obi-wan had gone into this with mixed feelings. he'd told yoda he wouldn't kill anakin. he waited while padme tried to reason with anakin until it seemed to him it wasn't going to work. he first confronted anakin because padme was in danger (he hadn't choked her yet, but i think obi-wan may have thought he might harm her soon). so this was "defense" fitting with the code of the jedi.

after, obi-wan attempts to reason with anakin himself, but it seems it's impossible to reach him. so he says he'll do what he must then. but even as they continue to fight, obi-wan makes attempts to reason with anakin. he tells him he failed him. he tells him he's lost. this entire time it remains that he won't kill anakin unless he *must*. anakin's chance didn't end on the landing platform iow.

at the point where he "has the high ground" lol, the warning to anakin is genuine. if anakin jumps, obi-wan will be able to take him down. he's giving him one last chance. in his heart he doesn't want to kill anakin.

even after he's defeated anakin he doesn't kill him. he did what he must, but he doesn't need to kill someone who is helpless and incapable of fighting back. one could argue that leaving anakin like that was even more terrible though, but i really think that obi-wan just couldn't bear to deal the final blow.

 

I think that the high ground situation was not out of mercy or any other feelings towards Anakin, but rather a tactical move made by Obi-Wan to end the fight. Obi-Wan frequently uses his adept mind when he may not necessarily be on par with his opponent in pure power. I think the movie was definitely trying to make Anakin out to unredeemable, especially by making him slaughter younglings and choke Padme. Therefore, Obi-Wan was going there to kill him. He even ignited his lightsaber first and didn't attempt too much conversation. As to the end of the fight where Obi-Wan leaves Anakin in pieces rather than finishing him, I find this moment uncharacteristically cruel. It is simply not right to leave a mutilated former friend to slowly die in agony, and definitely out of character for Obi-Wan not to mercifully end Anakin's suffering.

 

"I will do what I must."

That's the answer.

If Anakin sees the light and stands down, great. If not, it's war.

 

As the posters above said, he was giving Anakin a chance to make his move, as the dark side is always the aggressor. Being that they have such a strong relationship, he was giving him many more chances to advance. The very fact that he continues to try to persuade the boy he knew who was now "lost", shows he never wanted to kill him. The fight on Obi-Wan's side is a great demonstration on the tactics of the Jedi using both reasoning and defense.
Steps off the platform, throws down robe like a badass...."Anakin I'm not against you. I'm for the Republic"
Lightsaber firmly in position to strike "I've failed you, Anakin."
Lightsaber still ignited in attacking position "It's over. The fight is done".

He's showing Anakin that he is prepared to kill him at any moment, but only if he allows that to be his fate. "I will do what I must" and he did. Nothing more. As cruel as it may seem, he did not need to confirm Anakin's death with another blow while he was defenseless. The Jedi have to be wary of their emotions when they choose to "end" things once and for all. You're still dealing with using power that can potentially corrupt you. After he strikes Vader in the air, he looks and sees this only incapacitates him, and is willing to walk away(he had not slid to the lava, yet). He clearly didn't think he'd be that much of a threat to the galaxy with no legs. He showed up to let Anakin "dictate" the fight and Anakin's "choice" was to let the fire consume him.

 

Great responses guys, thanks!

On the topic of Obi Wan leaving Anakin to suffer on the lava banks, does anyone else think that besides being unable to deal the final blow because of his love for Anakin, part of Obi Wan was doing almost a force coin toss? I've seen it mentioned on these boards before that a theory is that Obi Wan may have finally been taking Qui Gon's initial advice in TPM to let the Force control the outcome of things, and thus if Anakin were to die on Mustafar or live to be suited Vader, it was because the Force willed it so?

 

Or its just Obi being an ass.


The choices are simple, either save Anakin or kill him.


Instead he opted for neither option by deliberately lettiing his former friend burn to death. What Obi did on Mustafar was a scumbag move.

 

What Anakin did to Obi-wan, the Jedi, and Padme was a bigger scumbag move. It's his own fault that he ignored Obi-wan's warning to not jump after him.

 

I tend not to think much on Anakin being left for dead. As I said in my previous comment, it was an incredibly cruel act from Obi-Wan Kenobi that I do not believe was in character. Obi-Wan should have KILLED Anakin out of love. Leaving someone to die a slow and agonizing death is not love or mercy.

Regarding this will of the force theory, I personally don't believe that is the logic that Obi-Wan was employing. I think Obi-Wan believed that Anakin was a force of evil that had to be stopped. I doubt he would have gone back to Yoda and said, "Hey so uh I probably stopped Anakin...but maybe not. We'll see. The force will decide". That's just my opinion. Moreover, its less likely that Obi-Wan was thinking of Qui-Gon's teachings at that moment considering that he begins to communicate with the spirit of Qui-Gon following the end of the movie.

 

First, I agree with Darth Jaster and Baks, that Obi-Wan leaving Anakin to burn was cruel and not in character with Obi-Wan or how a Jedi should act.

I really doubt Jedi are trained to dismember their enemies and leave them to die slowly and horribly.

And I can not buy the argument "Obi-Wan can't bring himself to kill Anakin."
Obi-Wan HAS already killed Anakin by doing what he did.
That Anakin is still breathing when he leaves doesn't change that.
If a person shoots someone with a poison dart that will kill the person in about two hours, it is still killing.
Doesn't matter that it takes a while for the other person to die.
Take the first Mad Max film, at the end, Max chains the last biker to a car, sets up a device that will blow the car up in a few minutes and gives the guy a saw and tells him that he might be able to save his own life if he saws his own foot off. He leaves and we see a ball of fire as he drives off. Did Max kill this biker? Yes!

What Obi-Wan did was to dismember Anakin by cutting off both his legs and his arm.
Doing this in a normal setting, say out in on the plains, is still likely fatal. Anakin will not be able to move very far and unless he gets help, he will die from exposure.
In the harsh place they are in RotS, death is even more assured. Again baring outside help.
So Obi-Wan cuts off Anakin's arm and legs, KNOWING that this will kill him.
So Obi-Wan can't pretend that his actions won't kill Anakin and he knows that Anakin's death will be extremely painful and horrible.
At best he might have thought that the dismembered Anakin will land in the lava and die quickly.

Second, what was his plans?
He might have had some hope that Anakin could be reasoned with but once they are over the lava, he most likely knows that Anakin won't turn back. And it is very unlikely that he thinks that this fight could end in a draw.
That Anakin just gives up trying to kill Obi-Wan and leaves.
Plus Obi-Wan is under orders to stop Anakin.
So unless he manages to turn Anakin back, he has to kill him. He can't let Anakin just leave.

So the "high ground" thing is probably a move to get Anakin to do something rash so Obi-wan can end the fight.
If Anakin jumps ashore somewhere else and walks towards Obi-Wan, the fight will just go on, until either scores a kill.
So Obi-Wan, knowing Anakin, says what he says to get Anakin to jump towards him.

Did he dismember Anakin on purpose?
Given that Obi-Wan made two swings and that he was a good enough swordsman to cut Anakin in half if that was his goal, I'd say yes.
The dismembering was deliberate.

Bye for now.
Mr "Insert-Name-Here."

 

Obi-wan was trained to never kill a helpless person. The Code forbids it. It is what Anakin says about killing Dooku and why Anakin speaks up when Mace goes to kill an apparently helpless Palpatine. So Obi-wan slicing Anakin up wasn't about being cruel. It was out of necessity since Anakin didn't think this through and the only way to stop the fight. He doesn't even go for a killing blow. He could of decapitated him instead, but he didn't and that's because he doesn't want to kill him. But he has to, yet Anakin is helpless now. So what we have is a catch-22. That's why he leaves him to burn and as Stover wrote in the novelization, he was not feeling merciful. This was intentional on Lucas's part to show the blurred lines between good and evil and to justify Anakin's hatred of Obi-wan.

ANAKIN: "I HATE YOU!"

He hates him for hurting him and for turning his back on him. This is why he has no problem killing him years later. This is also why he cannot kill Luke, because he has no hate towards him. This is why Luke succeeds because he won't kill him and he won't leave him to die.

 

darth-sinister that makes sense. every move from a jedi is supposed to be on defense. obi-wan remains on defense the entire fight (if i remember correctly). if you are wed to defense you can't do anything after chopping off anakin's limbs. this means the jedi way isn't about controlling fate either... it's about putting faith in the code and the force, and not attempting to control outcomes... you can confront the enemy, but they have to attack. if they will not attack/fight there's no cause for violence.

anakin seems to not only hate hypocrisy from the jedi (not following their own way), but he hates the jedi way itself.

also what you say, indicates luke restored his faith in goodness. anakin's initial issue with the jedi way was it didn't match his own standards of goodness (possibly), but luke comes along and fights him with standards he once held himself.

 

Just a random thought; anyway Obi Wan didn't actually go down to give the killing blow out of concern for his own safety?

I know it doesn't make too much sense, but Anakin still has one arm (a mechanical one at that; extremely strong and powerful) and could maybe pull him down to be burned with him. Or even push him into the lava head on.

I know I sound like a noob, just as always, looking at every possible angle and over analyzing SW as much as possible here.

 

lol I guess that is possible, however Obi-wan was all for jumping around in the lava during the fight lmao. So i'd say obi-Wan has thrown safety out the window a while ago.

 

Ha, fair enough...I guess the fear of falling in the lava would've been extinguished as soon as it was raining down on them and destroying all metal around them. Well played, Jaster.

 

Is very hard to tell what Obi Wan really wants to do.
Obi Wan always kept a cool head. Why is he leaving with Padme, I have no idea.
He could have just let a device to trace Padme and come with his own ship.
Maybe he thought Anakin will turn back to the light side?
Maybe he knew Anakin will kill Padme and Obi Wan and his allies will get the children of Anakin?
Just think, if those children would have been taken by Anakin and Darth Sidious and would have been trained from being very small
with the dark side, they would have become extremely powerful Sith Lords.
Yes, Anakin had a high concentration of midichlorians, but he had a robotic arm and I think that greatly reduced his capability of doing
Force lightning.
Also,his capability of Force push and so on.
Darth Sidious was a very strong Sith Lord, but unofficial cannon of Star Wars is telling stories about Sith Lords that were a lot more powerful
than Darth Sidious.
Darth Sidious was not trained in the dark side of the Force, from a very young age, either.

 

@_Sublime_Skywalker: I guess it was possible that Anakin could've just grabbed Obi-Wan's ankle with his metal hand and pull him into the lava in a "taking you with me" ploy.

 

I wouldn't put it past Anakin/Vader in that moment. As he states himself, he now hates Obi Wan, and hate leads to suffering. Anakin is pretty big on his ego and pride, so I personally would be uncomfortable taking those cautious steps towards him, knowing he'd probably want to drag me down with him so he didn't *completely* lose.

 

It's also ridiculously incredible how Anakin even survived after being left for dead. He lay there burning alive, living only off of his powerful hatred (and Palpatine's transference of life if you believe that theory).

 

What always amazed me is that after burning through most of his clothes, the fire just magically goes out and stops, preventing Anakin from fully burning alive. It's not like we say the guy stop, drop and roll. He just lay there trying to pull himself up, which probably wouldn't put the fire out...

 

You underestimate his power....Anakin definitely used the force to create a vortex around himself, much like an airbender, to disperse any flames. This is 100% the cannon explanation. Moreover, you forget one of the most widely accepted theories out there. Anakin is the "Chosen One", or in other words "The Avatar". Anakin was able to master all of the elements prior to confronting Obi-Wan. Once Obi-Wan was a safe distance away from the mutilated Anakin, the Chosen One quickly fire bended the flames off of his body.

 

Well there's two things driving Obi-Wan's actions there. First, even after mutilating Anakin, he can't bring himself to do the final deed. It goes against his principles as a Jedi to kill an helpless being and against Obi-Wan's personal feelings towards Anakin. Second, on a far darker note, it's possible that a small part of Obi-Wan felt justified in leaving Anakin to burn on that black shore. After everything that Darth Vader had done, Obi-Wan had a right to be angry with him. We see a hint of that in his initial expression when he first appears at the foot of the ramp. He's glaring down at Anakin, looking quite perturbed. But it's quite telling that Obi-Wan doesn't reach down to help the now-helpless Darth Vader. He doesn't grab the limbless man that was once his best friend and pull him to safety on the higher shore.

Obi-Wan Kenobi lets Darth Vader slide down the sand bank and into the burning lava by the shore. And he stands there and watches the former Anakin Skywalker burn. He turns away for a moment in horror at what's happening to Vader. He looks sad and almost breaks down and cries. But Obi-Wan does not help the injured and powerless Sith Lord. He's quite content to leave his former pupil to a slow, agonizing, fiery death. In his mind, Obi-Wan likely thought that Anakin's horribly painful death was justice.

 

*ahem*

"The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural."

 

It might have been cruel on Obi-Wan's part and I think deliberately so. He loved Anakin and even after he's seen him kill children, even after he's seen him throttle his own wife, the mother to be of his children (and Obi-Wan's friend in her own right) he's still tried to hold back and give Anakin a chance to back down and end it without death. Anakin's reaction is to attack and attempt to kill Obi-Wan, and in that instant he's pushed himself beyond redemption in Obi-Wan's eyes. Yes, Anakin is suffering. Yes, Obi-Wan could have ended him quickly and mercifully if he wanted to. But... he doesn't want to. That's not the Jedi Way. It's not very moral and not at all admirable. It's the act of a man whose finally reached his absolute limits.

If you take the idealistic and honourable prequel Obi-Wan (who was the one Jedi seen to consistently call out the Council on some of their choices) with the cynical and manipulative OT ''Ben Kenobi'' I think the fight on Mustaphar left him broken almost as much as it did Anakin.

 

Nope. As I noted, Obi-wan could have gotten him before then. He didn't because even though he had to kill him, he couldn't. And when he could kill him, he couldn't because of the Code. Not for his own safety. He's a Jedi and worrying about his own safety in this instance is not a priority.