Index Obidala/Sabewan Archive (Update 8/28/07 - Thread Adoption Notice!!!)

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by AERYN_SUN, Sep 23, 2002.

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  1. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    ?A Tangled Web? is undergoing a major layout change! However, some of the new pages are not up yet. But it looks good :D

    poetry:

    i have written a new obidala, titled 'Foolish Games' but it's written in Anakin's p.o.v.
  2. JazzyJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2000
    star 3
    Hi!

    Thanks for putting me on the Obi/Sabé list and adding a note of recommendation! Glad to see you here, and it's nice to have someone keeping track!

  3. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    no problem, jazzy jedi. i know, someday i will actually get through reading your series :D
  4. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    Obi-Wan's True Love Discussion!

    okay, i'd been thinking about this one for awhile now. while this thread deals with mainly fics and websites, there should be discussion about the characters themselves.

    first discussion: Who is Obi-Wan's True Love? (No flaming) Sabe? Padme? (If anyone can think of anyone else not mentioned above, please feel free to state the name of the character).


    ~aeryn
  5. jedi-thespian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 3
    To tell you the truth, AERYN_SUN, I'm a little confused myself. I have one story (completed) where Obi-Wan's true love was Sabé, but in the story that I'm working on right now, it's Siri.

    Honestly, was ever a man (Obi-Wan) placed in so delicate a situation? ;)

    All of these romances (Padmé, Sabé, and Siri) could make sense, depending on the "certain point of view"

    Obi-Wan could love Padmé, which could provide a completely different subplot as to why he would try to keep Anakin away from her. The Obidala romance is the tragic one, because we know that Padmé eventually ends up giving birth to Anakin's children and getting killed, and Obi-Wan is "left and bereft." But some readers love the dramatic element of the tragedy, which is what keeps Obidala alive.

    Or he could love Sabé, the devoted handmaiden. Sabé has been put into so many different characterizations it's hard to say, but the idea of the undercover handmaiden and the Padawan learner having a romance has always been intriguing to readers (including myself) and I know not why. Obi/Sabé seems to be the "love conquers all obstacles" kind of element, and that draws many readers as well.

    Then there's Siri. Obi-Wan's best friend growing up. This is the character that I know least about, but here's what I know. She is a Jedi Master, so there's a strong possibility that she would see Obi-Wan more than the former two. And everyone knows that there has been more than one romance involving the "best friends turning into lovers" plot. It's a sweet idea, and that's why some people would prefer Obi/Siri.

    There's my first post to the discussion. Hope you got something out of it. :D
  6. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    Obi-Wan could love Padmé, which could provide a completely different subplot as to why he would try to keep Anakin away from her. The Obidala romance is the tragic one, because we know that Padmé eventually ends up giving birth to Anakin's children and getting killed, and Obi-Wan is "left and bereft." But some readers love the dramatic element of the tragedy, which is what keeps Obidala alive.

    jedi-thespian, i am both an obidala 'shipper & obi-wan/sabe fan for those reasons alone. although, obi-wan & padme hardly share any lines together in both movies, it makes sense that while obi-wan has to hide and protect padme, that the two of them become closer and maybe more.

    Or he could love Sabé, the devoted handmaiden. Sabé has been put into so many different characterizations it's hard to say, but the idea of the undercover handmaiden and the Padawan learner having a romance has always been intriguing to readers (including myself) and I know not why. Obi/Sabé seems to be the "love conquers all obstacles" kind of element, and that draws many readers as well.

    i think the reason obi-wan/sabe came about was because either keira or sabe was smiling at obi-wan at the end of phantom menace. her smile is almost menacing and of course, there's obi-wan's reaction after padme reveals to boss nass that she was the queen all along. he has almost a smug reaction, there too -- like he was up to something while his master was away looking for parts.

    ~aeryn
  7. Obis-Grl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
  8. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    care to add to the discussion, twin [face_mischief]
  9. JediKlea Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 3
    Well as Episode III isn't out yet, the topic is still open! [ie. even though it is inevitible it hasen't happened YET] What if Padme doesn't die?
    What if she is still alive in the end of the trilogys? [Or at least she doesn't die in Episode III but very soon before Episode IV] She could decide that its best for all concerned that Leia and Luke are raised by others to keep them away from Vader... She could live on Tantooine, keeping an eye on Luke...She could die when he was around 15...Anyways, there are some speculations for ya!
  10. Denny Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2001
    star 3
    well, first, thanks for listing my fic :)

    Now, as for the true love thing. I honestly don´t think it´s Padmé or Sabé.

    I wrote Obi/Sabe because I needed an excuse to write Sabé in the first place. But I´ve never seen any evidence that they´d get together at all, no stolen looks, absolutely nothing. It still puzzles me how this pairing came up anyway. I like how some are done, but no, I don´t think it´s Sabé.

    Padmé would make things much more dramatic, but I don´t see that happening -- it would ruin the whole cuteness of Ani/Ami (not that I find it cute - the romance actually annoyed me) -- but it would ruin the magic you know what I mean? If well done, could come out great, but George´s got only two and a half hours more to show right?


    As for Siri, don´t know much about her and it depends on what Watson is planning,

    but as far as canon goes, I think Ben is just the perfect Jedi, no ladies allowed. :(

    sad, eh?

  11. Crimson_Sabre Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2002
    star 4
    I'm dropping in from an invitation from a certain someone, Aeryn ;)

    Well as Episode III isn't out yet, the topic is still open! [ie. even though it is inevitible it hasen't happened YET] What if Padme doesn't die?
    What if she is still alive in the end of the trilogys? [Or at least she doesn't die in Episode III but very soon before Episode IV] She could decide that its best for all concerned that Leia and Luke are raised by others to keep them away from Vader... She could live on Tantooine, keeping an eye on Luke...She could die when he was around 15...Anyways, there are some speculations for ya!


    Well, FYI, Padme does live through Episode III, and that's about 97% sure right there.
    There's still the slight possibility that she dies, but considering Leia is old enough to remember her mother in ROTJ, AND the Skywalker twins aren't born until the end of EP III... well... you do the math.

    As for Obi-wan's 'true love', I think he's a real stickler for the Jedi Code, which doesn't allow attatchments or possessions. In other words, I don't think he has a true love, and if he did, I'd guess it to be one of the Jedi he grew up with at the temple and not a Nubian Handmaiden. But that doesn't mean that he isn't in love with one, so I vote that since he's never been shown love, he'll never get close enough to anyone to experience it.
  12. jedi-thespian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2001
    star 3
    Canon Obi-Wan probably doesn't have a true love, and it's sad. In the next movie, the only possibility would be Siri in my opinion, and I don't really know that much about her. And it would make sense because we know that all of the Jedi except Yoda and Obi-Wan die eventually, and perhaps Obi-Wan would not realize his love until it was too late. Who knows?
  13. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    perhaps Obi-Wan would not realize his love until it was too late. Who knows?

    :( that was always my thought.

    crimson_sabre, what about the idea of obi-wan/padme? any crediblity there?
  14. Princess1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    Sadly, I don't think the canon Obi Wan has a true love, he's to much of the jedi.

    But I do think there is a definite potential[/i[ for him to have a true love if a few things changed.

    Me, I've always thought that his true love would be padme. (Ok, so I'm a Obidala shipper.:) )

    Anakin and Padme are adorable, but I just have this odd feeling that in a way, if Anakin died, Padme would turn to Obi Wan.


    So it might be unrequieted true love. Like that line in epII.

    When Anakin says"I can sense everything going on it that room."

    And Obi Wan says: "Your sense's are not that attuned my young aprentice."


    Anakin: "And yours are?" (Anakin sounds definisive here.)

    Obi Wan: "Possibly." (here he sounds like he's edging around the question)

    I know this scene could be taken quite litterally as merely a debate about jedi powers, force sensitiveness etc.


    But you could also put another subtext in that, a differnt underlineing meaning.

    That they are arguing over who's sense are more attuned to Padme.

    That would fit with padme covering the cameras in the novelization,and Anakin saying, that he didn't think she liked him watching her.


    But if you asssume that something is going on, it really would add a whole differnt take on Obi Wans motivations etc.


    I quite frankly have always found it hard to believe that more jedi didn't end up getting married or having a relationship against the code, they are human after all, even if they are jedi.


  15. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    But you could also put another subtext in that, a different underlining meaning. That they are arguing over who's senses are more attuned to Padme.

    i'd never thought about that before. interesting point, princess. when the trailers were first released, the only lines that totally made me believe that obi-wan & padme were truely meant to be together was:

    "It's a pleasure to see you agan, m'lady."

    & padme replies, "It's been far too long Master Kenobi,"

    i remember listening to that wave every time i was on the computer.

    I quite frankly have always found it hard to believe that more jedi didn't end up getting married or having a relationship against the code, they are human after all, even if they are jedi.

    i think the code refers to jedi marrying outside of the order, which is something anakin did. jedi are probably allowed relationships within the ranks (i don't see how that would be forbidden). therefore, it would be considered 'okay' to be dating that cute female padawan next door to your quarters :D

  16. Princess1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4


    Oh yea, I noticed the "Wonderful to see you M'lady" thing to, but for some reason the scene I mentioned just caught my attention the very first time I watched the movie.


    But maybe its just me.

    But I treasure anything even remotely Obidala in the movies, lol....;)

    And could it be the disscussion over "exceeding their manadate" be a way that they are showing off to Padme, guys do stupid like that, argue to show off.



    i think the code refers to jedi marrying outside of the order, which is something anakin did. jedi are probably allowed relationships within the ranks (i don't see how that would be forbidden). therefore, it would be considered 'okay' to be dating that cute female padawan next door to your quarters


    Lol, very good point. :D I somehow didn't think about that one. Wonder who was next door to Obi Wan? ;)

    Actualy, that makes alot of sense,makes the "code" a little bit more workable.

    They would probably have to make it that way or pratically every jedi would be brakeing the rules! :D
  17. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    Quite frankly, I think that's reading way too much into those lines. Obi-Wan has the impossible task of training the Chosen One, a Padawan who has more raw talent than Obi-Wan - he's trying to show Anakin that raw talent isn't everything. Training must be there as well. As for the lines when they meet, I saw that as nothing more than friendship. Obi-Wan helped save her planet ten years before. It is only natural that she would still feel gratitude for that, and it's within Padmé's character to feel like she didn't thank him enough when he was on Naboo. He did help save her life, after all.

    As for the idea that the Jedi are forbidden from loving those outside the Order, I don't really buy that either. What's the difference between the two? Love of that kind still leads to attachment and possession, no matter who is involved, and that is forbidden.

    This is a passage from a collab I'm writing with padawan lunetta - we haven't started posting it yet, but this explains what I'm talking about.

    "In the Old Order, the Jedi brought children away from their homes and to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant when they were less than a year old. They did this to keep those children from completely forming the instinctive emotional bonds which every child has with his parents. Through their training, those children learned very quickly how to manipulate and prevent those kinds of bonds. It wasn't until a child was made a Padawan to a Master that he really began to form any kind of emotional bond.

    "Because of that, it was quite easy for them to forbid love - those children were already used to controlling their emotions. That was just one to shut off entirely. The problem came with a child like Anakin Skywalker. He wasn't brought to the Temple until he was about ten years old. He was too old to break the bonds he had already formed, and he was never able to prevent them the way others could. The same holds true of the New Order. When the children are brought up among their families, love cannot be forbidden. It's like denying water to a fish."


    As far as canon goes, I think it's out of character for Obi-Wan to love anyone. He's very much by the books, and I have an extremely difficult time seeing him allowing himself to fall in love, if the story is following canon rules. Besides, at the end of AotC, he tells Anakin that he will be expelled from the Order if he allows his love for Padmé to overrule his obligation to the Jedi. Obi-Wan is careful enough that he wouldn't allow the attachment to form in the first place.

    Having said that, I do have an AU with Obi-Wan falling in love with Sabé - in fact, it's been listed in this index. However, in this AU, love is not forbidden for all the Jedi (there are some sticky situations, but it would take too long to explain). Still, Obi-Wan finds himself torn between loving Sabé and following the Jedi Order without involving himself romantically with her. This actually becomes a major part of the story, and in some ways Sabé causes some of the more negative events in the story.

    And as for the A/A age difference... what the heck? Obi-Wan is at least ten years older than Padmé, from what I understand...

    Mel
  18. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    And as for the A/A age difference... what the heck? Obi-Wan is at least ten years older than Padmé, from what I understand...

    for me, i'll always see anakin as that 9 year old boy. one of the reasons obidala i'm an obidala 'shipper is because i can never see anakin & padme together realistically.

    this statement may offend some anakin/padme 'shippers but this is the way i see it:

    padme is 14 when she meets anakin (then 9). padme's only 14 years old and she feels a bond with a 9 year old boy she hardly knows. in the real world, girls padme's age don't even feel that way about 9 year old boys. it's just wrong.
  19. Obis-Grl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    Ok people I have been lurking for a while but I suppose I'll just in....


    And as for the A/A age difference... what the heck? Obi-Wan is at least ten years older than Padmé, from what I understand...

    Personally I really dislike the whole "he's ten years old then her" argument.

    Why?

    My father is ten years older than my mother. They got married when she was 22 and he was 32 (he robbed the cradle...hahaha). But they have been happily married for 21 years.

    So to me I don't see a problem with the 10 year age gap. But I can understand why people find it strange.
  20. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with a gap of ten years in age. What I'm saying is that if the age difference is your problem with A/A, that should be a problem with Obidala.

    AERYN: Padmé's relationship with Anakin in TPM is not a romantic one, which is what I think you mean by "bond." She feels indebted to him because he did so much to help her, and they are good friends. I don't think it's fair to say that she shouldn't feel anything for him simply because he is so much younger. Besides, Anakin has changed so much since he was nine years old that it's understandable that she would fall in love with him - yes, she says that he'll always be that little boy to her, but it's obvious that he's not. When she tells him that she's been dying a little each day since he came back into her life, implicit in that is the idea that her ideas and beliefs have been changed by her new relationship with Anakin.

    Is it the way I would have written it? No, but it does work. Remember, it's a different society, and the social stigmas we place on things aren't necessarily the same in the GFFA.

    Mel
  21. Darth_Tim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    star 4
    Here's my take on this:

    1. As Mel pointed out, there is a much bigger age difference between Ami and Obi than between her and Ani

    2. She hasn't seen either Obi OR Ani in 10 years, and no doubt was sincerely grateful for Obi's service to the Naboo.

    3. Obi-Wan says "She's a politician, and they are not to be trusted" and reminds Anakin that "you have made a commitment to the Jedi Order".

    So, how, then, if Obi-Wan is somehow secretly in love with Padme and intends to act on it, does this make him look?

    Basically, like he's treating Anakin like a rival and is manipulating his authority as his master in order to deflect his attention away from her.

    And then later, forbids Anakin to go after her on Geonosis (gunship scene). Now, if it was Obi-Wan that was deeply in love, would he have not only not gone after her himself, but not allowed Anakin to see to her safety?

    Celibacy in the Jedi represents their commitment to self-denial and being in control of their more base desires. The fact that Obi-Wan, Anakin, Adi Gallia, and many other members of the Jedi Order are quite attractive, and the wish of fans to write romance involving their favorite characters, is pretty much irrelevant.

    Secondly, if you go for the love triangle option, don't you realize how it makes Obi-Wan look in the OT? He told Luke that Anakin turned because he was impatient and seduced by the dark side, and because of Obi-Wan's arrogance regarding his own abilities. However, if you go the Obidala route, that means Obi-Wan never bothered to tell Luke that he was having an affair with Anakin's wife (which, if that was the case, I'm sure would have an effect on Anakin that would be anything but slight.)

    Now how does that make Obi-Wan look? Like a manipulative liar who insisted his apprentice stick to the letter of the JEdi Code and yet never bothered to do so himself, instead of the tragic, noble figure we see in ANH.

    -Tim



  22. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    probably if anakin were a little older (maybe a year younger than padme) i wouldn't even be an obidala 'shipper. that's he honest truth.

    on the side that if padme had an affair with obi-wan, this is something that wouldn't happen when anakin was around. it would be after he crossed over to the darkside.
  23. Melyanna Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 4
    So it's okay for a man to be ten years older than the woman he loves, but not for him to be four years younger?

    The fact is that Anakin and Padmé have a lot more in common than Padmé and Obi-Wan ever thought about having in common. Obi-Wan is raised among the Jedi, with its austerity and emotional asceticism, while Padmé and Anakin are both raised in loving families. Padmé and Anakin both leave that family life at an early age to serve. They find themselves in positions where much is expected of them - probably too much for their ages - and they rise to the occasion beyond anyone's expectations. They're both plagued by constant worry, and constant duties, when both wish (to some degree) that they could do something different.

    Obi-Wan doesn't have those things in common with Padmé, and I find it unlikely that they would get past that. In AotC, Padmé struck me as one who was searching for someone who could understand her (which is why she hadn't married already), and understanding is exactly what Anakin needs - he needs someone who speaks his language and understands all his frustrations and desires. Padmé is the only one who can understand Anakin, and Anakin is the only one who can understand Padmé. Neither can be replaced.

    Mel
  24. Princess1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    I don't want anyone to get the impression here that I think Padme should marry Obi Wan INSTEAD of Anakin, most definitly not.

    They are perfect for eachother, as Mel said, they understand eachother.


    But that doesn't mean I'm not also a Obidala shipper Lol, okay, that sounds strange, but really, I'm not contradicting myself. Anakin and Padme ARE perfect for eachother, I just see Obi Wan and Padme as a couple that COULD be, not that they really are or going to be.

    I think it could have happend in differnt circumstances, like say if she hadn't met Anakin again after TPM, and just Obi Wan had been assigned to protect her.

    Obidala is a what if, one that can happen in a AU, because its a wonderful thing to speculate about, and look for hints for in the movies (even though obviously nothing like that was intended in the movies).


    Obidala has the aspect of the unfullfilled love, love from a distance. Its very dramatic and tragic.


    Ani/Ami is very dramatic as well, but not quite so tragic, more bitter sweet, because its beautiful while it last, the sadness is in how its brutally cut short.


    They are both very differnt couples, one canon and real, one not. But both are very real and believable, wonderful in their own way, but very very differnt.

    I for one like both.


    But either way, with either couple, I don't see the age differnce as a problem, Anakin is very obviously no little boy, and 10 years between Padme and Obi Wan isen't that big of a differnce, my grandpa is 12 years over then my grandma, real people do get married with that kind of age differnce.


    Besides, whoever said Obi Wan had to ACT on his love for Padme? The very self control that other people have mentioned, that self denile that is part of his character and of being a jedi could allow him to love her, yet not allow himself to act on it, simply letting it be a part of him, but a hidden, buried part, far from the surface. Could that be why he stayed on Tatioone, watching Luke all those years, for the love of Lukes mother?

    Thats one what-if for a Obidala senario.


    But Anakin and Padme are really cool to (and Hayden Christensen has a undenilable appeal, its perfectly understandable she would fall in love with him.;) I would! :D )
  25. AERYN_SUN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 5
    Obidala is a what if, one that can happen in a AU, because its a wonderful thing to speculate about, and look for hints for in the movies (even though obviously nothing like that was intended in the movies).

    Obidala has the aspect of the unfullfilled love, love from a distance. Its very dramatic and tragic.

    Ani/Ami is very dramatic as well, but not quite so tragic, more bitter sweet, because its beautiful while it last, the sadness is in how its brutally cut short.

    They are both very differnt couples, one canon and real, one not. But both are very real and believable, wonderful in their own way, but very very differnt.


    i couldn't have said it better :D
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