Obiwan is the weakest Jedi of all time !

First of all, don?t get me wrong, I?m a big Obiwan fan?It seems that a lot of you consider that Obiwan (in episode 4) manage to get in a duel with Vader so that Luke and the others could escape with the Falcon. So, it?s like saying that Obiwan would be no match for the 5 stormtroopers that are keeping an eye on the Falcon ! Some of you might say that Obiwan is old and blablabla but if you take into account some of the Jedi in the prequels, like Qui-gon or Dooku which are older than Obiwan actually is in episode 4,they are still great warriors. So the bottom line is : Obiwan must be the weakest jedi of all time if he is not able to destroy 5 troopers and leave the death star with the falcon. Moreover, it doesn?t make sense to me that Obiwan would sacrifice himself to completely persuade Luke to get involved in the rebelion and all that, there must be something else (don't tell me being one with the force which actually doesn't mean anything).

 

wow ... uh ... no?

it wasn't to give them time to escape, it was to confront Vader like he must. Vader realized this he says "Escape is not his plan" or somtin like that to Tarkin

 

It seems that a lot of you consider that Obiwan (in episode 4) manage to get in a duel with Vader so that Luke and the others could escape with the Falcon. So, it?s like saying that Obiwan would be no match for the 5 stormtroopers that are keeping an eye on the Falcon! Some of you might say that Obiwan is old and blablabla but if you take into account some of the Jedi in the prequels, like Qui-gon or Dooku which are older than Obiwan actually is in episode 4,they are still great warriors. So the bottom line is : Obiwan must be the weakest jedi of all time if he is not able to destroy 5 troopers and leave the death star with the falcon.

Obi-Wan was ready to die. He knew he'd be able to come back after death and help Luke anyway, so he became one with the force and met his destiny.

As for the argument of Obi-Wan being weak, in the twenty years he's on Tatooine, he has no reason to do any physical training and does helm the force as much as he use to, mainly because he has no reason to anymore. Thus, he can't possibly be as skilled as the Jedi in the prequels who train every single day.

 

He didn't go out there to fight 4 stormtroopers. He went out there to face Vader. The stormtroopers were of absolutely no concern to him.

 

He did it to divert Vader's attention from Luke. Obi Wan knew that Han, Leia, Luke, Chewie and the droids could easily take on a few stormtroopers. However, he had to divert Vader's attention long enough to keep him away from Luke and Leia, thus he fought him long enough to keep him distracted from them, even if it meant sacrificing his life.

 

Right!

"Escape is not his plan"

Obi-wan fully intended to be struck down and "become more powerful" than Vader could have imagined. His ability to return in "spirit form" is evidence of his strength in the Force.

 

Bare in mind, SW has evolved from what it once was. When ANH was first filmed, I don't doubt that age played a big factor in why Ben wasn't the most kick butt Jedi around. He was old and out of practice. It fit well with the story as it was then. However, the story changed. Consider this as evidence, Ben really fought as good as Vader (remember, he purposely let Vader hit him), and we later see Vader do much more fancy dueling later in the saga. So why did Vader fight like an old man in ANH? It's just the way it was filmed verses what Lucas later wanted to do. But in either event, they are now part of the same saga, so for the purpose of continuity, it's assumed Ben was just ready to die, and that's why he didn't get all Yoda on Vader's arse.

 

So, despite the fact that we may never have anything to provide us with evidence, I wonder if we are now supposed to believe that Obiwan COULD have gone all out Yoda on Darth Vader.

 

I doubt it. Remember that both he and Vader were very rusty at the time, Obi-Wan because he'd been in hiding and apparently not drawing on the Force enough to be noticeable, and Vader because he probably hadn't slaughtered any Jedi for a while. Even if Obi-Wan had wanted to pull a Yoda, he probably wouldn't have been able to.

 

I wonder if we are now supposed to believe that Obiwan COULD have gone all out Yoda on Darth Vader.

He probably coulnd't have done that, but he more the likely could have defeated Vader.

 

Where is the proof that the Jedi can kill five stormtroopers? (I thought there much more than five stormtroopers who walked towards Obi Wan and Vader) Stormtroopers are much stronger than the droids and are not easily killed, at least not when they are five against one (plus Vader).

And Obi Wan is no loser. He did what needed to be done to save Luke and company.

 

Actually, Obi-Wan was the only living Jedi to have defeated a Sith (Darth Maul in TPM) and depending on what happens in Episode III ... (no spoilers, but it has been a source of speculation for a long time).

On the surface, his duel in ANH and AOTC do not hold him up as the greatest swordsman/fighter. But Obi-Wan did what he had to in ANH -- buy time for the others to get off the Death Star, and meet his destiny at the hands of Vader ("If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."). Though his performance in the duel with Dooku in AOTC was disappointing, it probably is due more to Anakin not listening to Obi-Wan and having them face Dooku together, and his fatigue from fighting in the arena.

All in all, not too bad for the weakest Jedi of all time.

 

It wasn't that he needed to get rid of 5 Stormies, if he'd taken them out then you've probably set of an alarm or soemthing and theres nope hope for escape for anyone.

Could he have taken Vader if they went all out in ANH... probably not, otherwise why wouldn't have he and Yoda gone tag team on him years ago saving the galaxy from 20 years of war... but maybe we'll see his true power in EIII...

 

Bit harsh on the old codger, I feel.

When 60 years old you reach, move as quick, you will not. Especially after about 20 years gathering dust on Tatooine.

 

Yeah it's hard to compare him to Dooku and Qui-Gon who defintely seem to be stronger at their age. Becuase he's not as active, and becuaee there's less jedi he might be weaker.

 

Obi-Wan was fighting Vader to keep Vader distracted from Luke. Attacking the Stormtroopers which Luke and Han could've handled anyway would only draw Vader's attention toward Luke and the others!

 

I doubt it. Remember that both he and Vader were very rusty at the time

Hmmm, I don't think that's it. There's no indication that Yoda had had to hunt down powerful Siths in recent years, but he handled Dooku quite well. Not to mention Luke's first battle with a sword went better than OB1's ANH battle, and Vader had had no practice between movies and his fighting had improved quite a bit from ANH to ESB. I find it hard to believe he improved just off that one battle three years earlier.

 

But there are other things besides lightsaber duels that keep Jedi in practice. The relationship of the Sith to the Jedi is similar to that of Satanists to Christians: they were specifically designed to counter the other group, so in the case of the Sith, their main duty is to kill Jedi. The Jedi, on the other hand, have a well-defined mission statement that's completely separate from the Sith. They keep peace in the galaxy, meditate, and negotiate. Yoda had been doing all of those things in AotC, so it didn't matter that he hadn't needed to absorb anyone's Force lightning recently. He was still in touch with the Force.

If you look at Vader and Obi-Wan in ANH, though, neither of them has been doing their duty for the past twenty years. Vader hasn't been killing Jedi because there are none left, and Obi-Wan has been watching passively while the galaxy goes to pot.

 

We know from EPisode 2 that the Jedi were losing some of their connection to the Force, and we know that Darth vader even commented "Your powers are weak, old man!" during their duel. It is possible that at least the old Jedi Order had lost much of their connection to the Force, that his power was a shadow of what it used to be. If so, he just may not have had the strength anymore to take on Vader on the Death STar.

I guess it could also be said, when you think about the way the Emperor mocked Obi-Wan's training of jedi in the Novelization of ROTJ, as well as the "Now his failure is complete", well....it could be said that Obi-Wan Kenobi did screw up pretty royally as a Jedi....

 

Everyone I know thinks that Obi Wan is the best, because of the fact that he has killed a sith, and he was the only one who recognized Anakins behavior being unruly. Do you remember when he told Mace that Anakin was getting arogant? Mace shrugged it off simply saying that he was the chosen one, and he can do no worng. *Now I'm just exagerating a littel. Bottom line, is that of everyone listened to ObiWan, I would think that not so many Jedi would have died. Or at least there would be no Love controversy for Anakin.

 

Actually the phrase, "your powers are weak, old man..." puts it into a new perspective for me. Vader was pointing out that something was not quite right with Ben, and maybe even a bit suprised by it. He had seen several older Jedi that were very powerful, so the fact that a Jedi as accomplished as Ben is not still going strong is both unusual and unexpected. Also very sad, perhaps intentionally so.

 

I think thats what makes Obi's character so tragic. He is a text book example of a great Jedi. As a padawan and through his knighthood he was one of the most powerful Jedi Knights in the galaxy.

But 20 years in the deserts of Tatooine, with no company, no practice and nothing to do but cruise the Cantina. A Jedi could get rusty will quick, especially with his age.

So yes, it is sad, but we all love it that way!

 

No that is not true.

If we went by your standards of weakest Jedi it would be Coleman Trebor since he could not deflect one person's(I know it is jango but still) shot

 

This statement explains why he's one of two left at the end of the PT.

 

I think that OB1 concentrated much more on the aspect of the Force that had to do with the unifying force.

Instead of practising his physical skills so much he concentrated on the meta-physical aspects.


He could see that being the only jedi left besides Yoda, he most likely wouldn't survive, plus he needed to keep an eye on Luke, all in all he was rather wise as I see it.

Also he is the first to have merged directly with the force, Qui-gon Jinn didn't do that!



DD - Wise Spliff