ODDS in Insider 87 (Controversial Issues Abound)

Oh OK.




Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith

 

No it says crew (which can be just the command crew like we see in RotS) and clones. There?s no real given number given for them just that they had a variety. Now I am unfamiliar with Boba Fett Crossfire. But I was able to look some of it up and it involved the Battle of Raxus Prime. Which for the Republic involved 2 Acclamator?s. Now in this battle most of the Republic ground forces were wiped out. A Corp worth 36,864. In the synopses of Boba Fett Crossfire it says that he was with the CIS forces and latter has an encounter with republic forces. Can you summaries what happens and what ships. In the Clone Wars game all Acclamators are only clone crewed.

Yes a Kamino military context. 1 Unit = 6 clones lower limit.

Yes, they are if there industrial complex is military. Since there main export is clone armies. You are trying to invent a incompatibility.

Yes, a combat unit.

So in your world a factory that makes cars can?t call a car a unit because its made up of many parts. Or are you saying the opposite. That one produce product is a unit like a Acclamator. A fully loaded Acclamator carries about 20,000 clones. If so that would mean 5 units are 100,000 clones. The 200,000 Units sent to Genosus would be 4,000,000,000 clones. Which makes more since because Genosus has 100 billion population. You would need about 4 billon to garrison it (or more). So the 1 million more Units would be 20,000,000,000. Now you have given me a convincing argument, thanks. But I will still stick to the 1 Unit = 6 as a lower limit.

Explain. The only way it can?t be is if 5=6. Which I hope you know is not possible. Besides the invention of a separation between the Kamino military unit and the Kamino military produce. So yes 1Unit=6 clones is G-canon Lower limit. With Razzys 1Unit=144 more likely now.

Isn?t this the one that also says million of divisions in it latter.

He could just be talking about ARC troopers numbers or just the first batch 200,000 Units=1.2 million clones. Which actaly is evidence for the 1Unit=6 clones lower limit.

Yes, Odd?s and Triple Zero. Both contract the rest of the EU and G-canon. So you have two maybes and 2 contradictions. That?s not much evidence. Especially contradicting G-can

 

I think you mean me, since I?m debating him.

I don?t see how. One is the maker of a clone army. Something they do a lot of since it is there main export. Its in the Kamino military context. The other is a prodcut of the kamino military. Both using the Kamino military structure.

Yes, combat units of at least 1Unit=6 clones as a lower limit with Razzys numbers of 1Unit=144 clones more likely.

Yes, it takes at least 6 clones to make a Combat Unit.

Yes, 5 groups of 6 clones. IE, 1Unit=6 clones as a lower limit.

Special or Elite clone commandos are a sub group of clone troopers that are better then normal troopers but not trained to be Republic commandos. I believe they are latter upgraded into ARC commandos.

5 groups of 6 clones at least.

For the 1unit to = 1 clone to work. You first have to prove 5=6.

Its not that ambiguous. Its ether 1unit=6 clones as a lower limit. But Razzy did provide evidence that a Caption was also in the group which means 1Unit=144 clones.

 

Snips pic

Let me try to interpret it.
-Systems Army: 2 Sector Armies. Strength: 1,179,648 men. . Lead by causal JedI General
-Sector Army: 4 Corps. Strength: 634,824 men. . Lead by JedI General
-Corps: 4 legions. Strength: 147,456 men. . Lead by JedI General
-Legion/Brigade: 4 regiments. Strength: 22,472 men. Lead by JedI General
-Regiment: 4 Battalions. Strength: 5,608 men.
-Battalion: 4 companies. Strength: 1,152 men.
-Company: 4 platoons. Strength: 288 men.
-Platoon: 4 squads Strength: 72 men.
-Squad: 18 men, commanded by a Sergeant.
Not that bad. There are some things wrong like no Division rank and system army is over Sector army.
Now if I was going to do it. I would do it like this using some formations seen in the movie.

-Many Army Groups.
-Army Group: 10 Sector Armies 23,592,960+ additional troops and units.
-Sector Army: 4 Systems Armies. Strength: 5,898,240 men.
-System Army: 4 Corps. Strength: 1,474,560 men.
-Corps: 4 Divisions. Strength: 368,640 men.
-Division: 4Legions. Strength: 92,160 men
-Legion/Brigade: 4 regiments. Strength: 23,040 men.
-Regiment: 4 Battalions. Strength: 5,760 men.
-Battalion: 4 companies. Strength: 1,440 men.
-Company: 4 platoons. Strength: 360 men.
-Platoon: 3 squads Strength: 90 men.
-Squad: 5 Teams Strength: 30 men, commanded by a Sergeant.
-Team: 6 men, lead by a corporal.

 

And? All the risks involved in sabotaging factories will similarly apply to sabotaged droids. Furthermore, the CIS can still build more and more factories in more and more places. That means that eventually, the Nulls will have to be expended on hitting more and more places to sabotage more and more factories, and will eventually have to return to hit previously sabotaged factories as the CIS catches on and repairs them. Which means an ever-increasing target list.

Guess what destroying factories do? Yup. They stop the target list from constantly expanding.

Just another benefit of destroying them as opposed to sabotaging them. Weighed against the fact that sabotaging factories STILL carries the very same risk, if not increased due to extended stay in time and the need for secrecy.

And obviously, there are no sentient quality control personnel. Firfek, the CIS obviously has no form of technical support in the frontlines as well. There are no android or sentient technicians that maintain these droids and notice the quality issues.
Not to mention rear lines depots, where technicans will run maintenence on them. Not to mention droid control officers, who we see are sentient, who noticed the increased kill rate and the fragility of these droids. There is obviously no AAR in the SWU too.

Are you seriously pushing for the kind of absurdity your reasoning entails?

Excuse me, how on earth did we shift from Omega Squad and other commandoes were destroying CIS installations and factories= phrik built droids?

Stop creating red herrings please. My statement was that Omega Squad were destroying FACTORIES.

In a war where entire planets are burned. Furthermore, the very same defences you listed will be effective against commando raids, whether they are sabotaged or destroyed.

We know that single ships can infiltrate and land commandoes onto a planet. What's to stop them from sending multiple starfighters, with superior performance than the shuttles and bombing the planet?

If starfighter resistance is increased, what is to prevent precision strikes from space?

If precision strikes from space is impossible, why on earth is this facillity now vulnerable to a commando strike?

And for the umpteenth time, with multiple posters replying to you on this, THIS DOESN"T MATTER.

The Republic were OUTNUMBERED. As long as these droids could shoot, kill, and more importantly, tie down Republic forces, they are still going to be more dangerous than removing them would have been.

It goes against the entire stragetic objectives of these strikes. Unless you want to add the sin of Republic idiocy into this mixture of absurdity.

And so? Replaced production will still require investment in capital equipment as well as

 

not bad yourself.

 

It can't just be the command crew. Boba was reflecting on what he'd seen exploring the entirety of the ship.

"Boba and Ulu walked through the halls of the vast ship. It was like Coruscant, levels and levels interlocked with ladders and chutes. But the halls were not teeming with hangers-on and tourists from all over the galaxy, all in different brightly colored outfits. Rather, there were only two basic types: the crew, who represented every sentient race or life-form. Diverse in color, stature, and shape, they were united by their magenta tunics. And the clone troopers, all looking alike, whether they were in their white battle armor or their red coveralls."

The book didn't go into too much detail about the actual Battle of Raxus Prime. Looking back at my copy, it does mention the Republic fighter tanks indirectly. Boba demonstrates awesomeness by taking the rifle of a fallen clone and shooting a droid or two.

I don't remember the book all that well. Star Wars Timeline Gold has a good summary. I can't copy directly from there, but I'll paraphrase.

Basically, Boba is with Dooku on Raxus Prime. I forget why, it was set up in the last book. But he sees the excavation of the Force Harvester. Dooku's ticked, but the Jedi and clones attack so he has to flee. Boba claims to be an orphan (accurately), and gives a fake name (Teff). The clones take him back to their Jedi Master, who puts him on the Acclamator with the other orphans. He wanders around for a while, and realizes Aurra Sing is following the ship in the Slave I (which she had stolen earlier.) Boba arrives at Bespin, where Aurra reveals that she needs him to unlock Jango Fett's vast fortune from the bank at Aargau, as he was the only unaltered clone. He agrees, and they evade patrols in the Slave I and head away from the planet.

No, Lama Su's statement to Kenobi was in a industrial/biotech/commercial context. The Kaminoans weren't soldiers.

A car is made up of many parts, but a car is a single object. The Kaminoans weren't building Acclamators; they were building clone troopers.

The idea the word "unit" means different things in the different contexts is plausible. Even if the films implied that a unit of clones was 6 men, it wouldn't be hard evidence. The films imply a lot of things that don't end up being true.

 

But it also says that millions of divisions are undergoing intensive performance evaluations--so those other troops are almost ready, though not yet deployable.

 

I have no problems with there being 200,000 units/soldiers that were prepped. However, what is to prevent the Kaminoans from rapidly activating more clones? Or that these units were the surge capability the Kaminoans were capable of giving the Republic?

We know from NEC and ITW that millions of divisions were already being prepped. There is no reason to believe that 200,000 soldiers comprised the total entity of the Clone Army during Geonosis, or that 1.2 million clones were all that was available. Rather, 1.2 million clones is likely to be all the clones that had been certified fit for action and had already been organised into squads and other larger units, and placed under centralised Republic control.

In industrial terms, a unit can similarly refer to a crate containing 50-200 objects like handphones.

And considering the scale of the battles and the fact that he could and did throw around 2 regiments, its obvious that what he refers to is the central force under the Republic. It has been obvious for some time that in the opening months, the clones were still not ready to fight a full scale war and neither was the Republic. The Republic needed to rapidly expand its militia and other paramilitary units, the Clones needed to get up to full gear as they were in the final stages of completion.

The easiest way to retcon numbers and the scale as well as numbers thrown around bare months later is to simply realise that only a limited number of clones were ready for action and it was these clones that formed the GAR, with large numbers of clones still in training or serving as cadre for other units like the various militias and planetary forces being expanded.

 

The thing is, the CIS probably isn't building any new factories, since they already have ovewhelming superiority in numbers. Destroying one or two factories isn't any extra risk, but when the Confederacy catches on immediately and starts upping secuirity, the risk increases shortly.

I haven't seen any competent sentients involved in maintaining or analyzing the droids. Cloak of Deception and the like implied it was just the Neimoidians and their droids, although I haven't read the Phantom Menace novelization. I don't rule out the possibility of the CIS eventually catching on.

Sorry, I may have misunderstood you earlier. Anyways, the factory they blow up at the beginning of Triple Zero was a highly specialized facility, not at all representative of typical droid factories. While they may have been destroying some factories beyond this one, I haven't seen any explicit statement saying so, as you claimed.

I don't recall there being any hyperspace-capable bombers in that era. And of course, a TIV, CR20, or CR25 can have some degree of stealth compared to an invasion fleet. It's also possible to shield a facility from bombardment.

 

>>>In the Clone Wars game all Acclamators are only clone crewed. <<<

Not necessarily. All the crew we see are clones, but that does not mean that all of the crew are clones. Also, the game is set right in the beginning of the war, for what its worth.

Crossfire (or one of the other Boba Fett books) makes a point to say that the Acclamators had partially non-clone crews. Which makes sense, since the clones were bred to fight, not be mundane or technically oriented crewmen on a capital ship. Though Clone bridge crews are shown in the Clone Wars game (and other sources?), I don't think it makes much sense for them to be there. The position of clone gunner, as shown in RotS, makes more sense, since they are directly involved in the fighting.

 

Actually, it doesn't. Manning turrets and guns is as mundane as it gets on a capital ship. The only reason I can think of to have clones manning guns is that the clones are already trained to handle stuff like this, and there's no need for additionaly facilities to train non-clones for the job.

Or rather, the Clones can be relied upon to shoot down Jedi ships.

 

I'm going to have to pore through the related material for ROTS again, but one of the spinn-off C canon explictly stated that Clone intelligence is tied up searching for CIS droid factories, meaning that yes, they are building more factories. So, that's a direct rebutal.

And furthermore, again, can you please recheck your position for internal consistency as well as logical coherency? Why on earth would the Confederacy not undergo a massive military buildup in the time of war?

Furthermore, why on earth would it that sabotaging factories and destroying factories would not both lead to increased security?

And of course, the Nulls now sabotage every single android technician in the entire CIS? Not to mention they subvert every single droid controller? We know the existence of both thanks to ITW TPM as well as Jedi Trial.

So, how on earth does the fact that they were destroying factories= they won't destroy factories?

Whatever happened to the Y-wing, the core of an already old starfighter corps in the Republic navy? V-wings, Etas and the like were relatively new fighters designed for the growing Republic navy. We already know of the existence of old snubfighters like the Z-95 headhunter and the Y-wing.

As for the second objection, why on earth is a facillity that's already well defended against orbital attacks and starfighter attacks somehow vulnerable to a small squad of commandoes?

The Republic was always outnumbered, and never attempted to alleviate the numerical disparity. Lord of War says Grievous had more troops than he knew what to do with. The only limit on the Confederacy is equipping and deploying those troops. It makes more sense to target the shipping assets, which was also done in Odds.

They targeted that transport so that the enemy would somehow believe that their droids haven't been sabotaged yet. There is no evidence in Odds that this was a specific mission objective, nor was there any evidence found in Odds that the Republic were practicising any form of tactical interdiction.

Furthermore, this is just inserting another red herring. Again, tell me why sabotaging the droids would be of any use when the Republic is severely outnumbered and sabotaged droids can still tie down Republic forces? We have explained this countless times. The Republic would have to be buffoons to expend additional sorties so as to take out and destroy sabotaged droids.

Instead of sending nulls to sabotage factories, why not send nulls into enemy shipyards and sabotage enemy transports?
Considering the limited resources the Republic had, interdiction of reinforcements would make much better sense than weakening the troops sent against Republic positions.

 

>>>Actually, it doesn't. Manning turrets and guns is as mundane as it gets on a capital ship. The only reason I can think of to have clones manning guns is that the clones are already trained to handle stuff like this, and there's no need for additionaly facilities to train non-clones for the job.

Or rather, the Clones can be relied upon to shoot down Jedi ships. <<<

You're probably right. But manning turrets does directly relate to combat (moreso than most other capital ship positions, excluding the military police), and would probably be one of the things all clones were trained for.

 

Speaking of clones manning things...

Why have absolutely zero orders of battle for the clone army brought up the mechanized and armored elements? Imperial OoB had them. Even if the Infantry clones were driving the AT-TEs, Juggernaughts, and AT-RTs, why don't we have numbers for how many are attached to units? Or are they just "part of the navy, and don't count as the 3 Million?" Laats operate with special pilots, but it's hard to say if they are Navy or Army air mobile.

 

They were building new factories to quietly reinforce Utapau. I don't recall anything else. Regardless, that was more than a year later, and there had been substantial realignment of forces.

They would, but they would want to maintain some level of balance between their forces. If they've got far more battle droids than they need, but not enough of other things, they're not going to use their finite resources focusing on more droids.

The sabotage wasn't detected. The CIS didn't realize what was going on. Blowing up factories would attract instant attention.

Checking Jedi Trial, it does mention a "senior control technician" on Tonith's staff. They probably would notice a dramatic shift in effectiveness fairly quickly.

This goes back to the question of the overall effectiveness of the sabotage. If the improved kill ratios cited were wrong or were from other factors, and the sabotage's effects were limited or subtle, than they wouldn't notice very quickly, if at all. Anyways, I don't rule out the possibility of the sabotage being discovered.

I'm saying we haven't seen Omega Squad destroy any factories beyond that one isolated example. Furthermore, the factory they did destroy was a specialized facility that probably wasn't even building droids.

We haven't ever seen the Y-wing in the prequel era, as far as I know.

Z-95s generally weren't hyperdrive-capable, and wasn't very capable as a bomber.

Remember, Obi-Wan is impressed by Grievous's hyperdrive-capable fighter.

I checked the story again. To get extracted, they have to cross kilometers of nerf-meat marshalling yards and leave in a disguised freighter. Most likely, they also came in on a craft disguised as a civilian vessel. It's not like they flew up in a gunship and jumped out. It's much harder to detect a couple commandos wearing stealth armor than it is to detect attacking spacecraft.

Right, it wasn't a mission objective, it was an attack of opportunity. But Prudii says that it's what the Republic would do if they didn't know those droids were sabotaged. As for the Republic not performing tactical interdiction: why else would they des

 

No I looked at it again. Boba basically divides the people on the ship into two mental groups. Non-clones and clones. All it tells us is that there were some non clone crew people. Like the command crew on the VenStar in RotS.

Is this an Acclamator or is it a Judicial ship with clones on it. I still don?t know. Was it even part of Kenobi?s forces. Basically this says the ships big and everyone is working. No passengers except Boba. Is he being escorted.

So he puts them in two basic groups and doesn?t say how may but white washes it.

So the few non clones are freaky looking.

Yet again no numbers. Only thing this says is it had some non clones as a command crew on a unknown ship not part of kenobis forces. Why was Boba on the ship. How did he get on. Why is he not being watched.

So this could be way latter and the ship he was on that might not be an Acclamator could just be a garrison force and that having non clone officers and techs would make sense.

Can you give me a link.

The synopsis said that he was captured by Sung and she took Slave I as payment and dropped him off at Dookus because he has a note from Jango saying he should find Dooku to get money if he dies.

Ok, that makes some more sense. After this Dooku really tries to kill Anikin a couple of times.

That answers my question. It was not part of Kenobis forces then and the Acclamator is some kind of Medical/support frigate. With a lot of Doctors or construction techs on it to build a garrison base or bases. Since they just took the planet.

 

So why would this be unique to the time period of ROTS only?

And of course, the concept of opportunity cost escapes you again.

And this situation would continue infinitely for the entire war?

If the sabotage effects were limited or "subtle", then it won't be very effective isn't it?

That has been the whole point of this excercise. The so called sabotage tactic is dramatically ineffective and the idea that this can somehow balance the issues facing the Republic, as well as the scaled down droid armies is ludricious AND against canon.

We saw in the various clone war novels and other EU that the Republic were fighting a major conventional war. ROTS tells us that billions die every day, unsung heroes everywhere. A thousand fronts, and of every front we see detailed in the clone war cartoon, comics and novels, we notice regiments, divisions and ultimately, armies being deployed and fighting.

All this requires large droid and clone armies, as both sides were approaching parity at the end of the war. The very fact that the CIS could throw up a wall of troops and defend their systems, while preparing an offensive into the Republic tells us that the CIS possess a military large enough to protect their core systems. This means a large fleet to defend their thousand odd systems and a droid army to defend them.

And how on earth does this rebut my argument? If security at such facillities has been increased to defend against commando strikes, send in bomber squadrons. If they're hardened against starfighters, send in warships. If they're hardened against precision strikes, send in armies. If they're hardened against all of the above, why on god earth would commando strikes be effective in the first place?

And? The spacecraft in example possessed weaponery sufficient to engage and destroy a transport. Furthermore, even after this blatent act of agression, we notice no form of interception by the CIS. Not surprising considering the very slack security measures on site.

And referring to Odds is a red herring. Your argument is that destroying factories will utlimately harden them to the extent that commando strikes will become ineffective.
My rebuttal is this.
1.We know that Omega Squad and other commandoes are destroying CIS

 

>>>In the Clone Wars game all Acclamators are only clone crewed. <<<

Not all clone. Some of the command or beige crew were non-clone. On lead ships like we see in RotS. So if we take a VenStar with a crew of 7,400 about 100 would be non clone. For an Acclamator of 700 crew about 50 non clone.

So you agree that for the first couple of months all Acclamators would be clone crewed and only latter get non clone bridge crews.

No just one Acclamator that was not part of the attack force but came latter to take survivors and wonded. It was a medical Acclamator. So it would be expected that it would have an unusual amount of non clones on board and even then it does not seen to be much.

Yes, mundane things like pilot LAATs and walkers. Combat medics. Clones doing work on fighters in the VenStar. The clones would have received basic training in these mundane tasks like fixing there battery.

Yes, and Republic Commando. That Acclamator had no non clone bodies on it. Also the Acclamator caption that came to help sounded like a clone

They let droids crew ships I see no reason not to let clones.

Yes, non bridge crew positions.

 

No, in that context, he's talking about all the people in the hallways and such. Also, I doubt there were significant levels of aliens in any command crew during the war.

It's an Acclamator. The Candaserri, to be specific. That was specifically stated in the book. I think there were a bunch of other orphans, but they stayed in their designated areas. I think Boba was with a Jedi Padawan for some of the time, but he wandered around pretty much unhindered.

He says how he divides them up: between clones and non-clones. Since they had different uniforms, it was a pretty logical distinction.

They're very diverse. Granted, Boba hasn't seen much of the galaxy at this point.

It doesn't say the non-clones are just part of the command crew. It strongly implies otherwise, by describing the magenta-clothed crewers as a common sight throughout the ship. We know it was an Acclamator. Jedi General Glynn-Beti was onboard, although I don't think she actually commanded the ship. Boba was on the ship because it's Jedi policy not to abandon orphans. I think he outsmarted the padawan that was supposed to be watching him or something, I'm not sure.

No, he was there for the initial attack, and left with the original attackers. It was an Acclamator.

You can get it here, but it's a zipped .pdf file, so it's a bit unwieldy.

Thanks, that sounds right.

Did Raxus Prime have anything of value besides the Force Harvester? I don't recall there being a garrison there, but I of course didn't play the game.

I really don't see any evidence for that.

No

 

Fierfek, I lost half my post. Oh well, I remember what I wrote.

By that stage of the war, the war had shifted significantly. The CIS had lost a lot of heavily industrialized worlds. Also, finding the factories in this case would mean finding Grievous, as Grievous was using hidden factories to build a garrison for Utapau.

Probably not, but it would last a long time, long enough to do significant damage to the CIS. If it ever stopped working or stopped being feasible, they could simply change tactics or abandon the venture.

I couldn't find the RotS quote you mentioned.

Anyways, we see lots of fronts that don't require the use of very many clones. Ord Cestus had 5 clones, and Terra Sool had 0. The Cestus Deception said they fought alongside local forces on a hundred fronts.

The CIS possessed a significant amount of droids throughout the war.

However, I don't recall the the 2 sides ever approaching parity. Lord of War had the massive Confederate advantage lasting until the end of the war.

You asked about Y-wings, I responded.

The whole point was that they stealthily infiltrated the factory. A fleet couldn't do that. It's much harder to detect two men wearing stealth armor in the middle of the night than a force of starships. A big fleet wasn't needed.

The point is, they probably used civilian landing facilities. The factory could've easily had good protection against fighter attack or other conventional intruders.

The torpedo load on their craft could have easily fit on the Millennium Falcon or a comparable craft.

Considering they jumped into hyperspace moments after they fired the torpedos, the Separatists didn't have time to respond to the attack.

 

Nevertheless, in Triple Zero and The Best Blades, the Republic is constantly monitoring for CIS factories, suggesting that new ones were being set up even in the begining stages of the war.

And you need to rebut my point that no, it won't. Hydro and myself has raised multiple salient points on why your argument that this sabotage will be tactically significant, but you have absolutely failed to address any of them.

We can just start over from the most basic and ask you to answer this most fundamental question:

The Republic is outnumbered. Yet, they're choosing a tactic that causes them to duplicate their efforts TWICE. Once to actually weaken the droids, and another to destroy the droids on the battlefield.

And these local forces probably swelled the defenders from a few tens of thousands to millions if not larger. Jedi Trial, an entire Clone army. Battle of Muunilist. Battle of Kamino. The siege of Neimodia. The Outer Rim Sieges.

All these are campaigns that had thousands of soldiers involved in them. And there are more and more clone adventures involving clone regiments and larger units, ranging from Shatterpoint at Haruun Kal and larger involvements like the battle of Mon Calamari.

And the gamut keeps increasing. We learn that clones are also assigned to cadre duties. Starfighter pilots. Patrolling the spacelanes.

Parity in terms of capability, not numbers. Furthermore, Lord of War establishes that they had quintrillions of droids, not that the Republic could not call upon quadrillions of soldiers, both clone and non clone.

No, I stated that bombers could be used against such facillities, you stated that there wasn't any such bomber. There is, its called a Y-wing. Stop lying.

And why would they need stealth in such a mission? And as for a big fleet not being needed, can you please go back to our argument?

Your point was that the CIS could increase security at such facillities significantly that commando raids could no longer be feasible. My rebuttal is even if commando raids are no longer feasible, there are other options available to the Republic.

Stop creating all these distractions and answer the topic.

The backcover of Triple Zero disagrees with you. A war of raids and sabotage suggests that this is not a singular incident.

 

No it just says he saw two types of people. Clones and non clones. No numbers given. So the only thing this establish is this medical Acclamator had some non clones on it. Since RotS shows non clones as command crew. They must be command crew and surgeons. Plus you said it was picking up non Republic people like Boba. Why do you think it would have few amount of aliens on the command crew. I assume about ¼ aliens.

So it was a medical Acclamator that was not part of Kenobis assault force. It seamed to just show up pick up wounded and survivors. Then leave. So it was not a normal Acclmator and was on support duty. All the Acclamators in Clone Wars game were clone crewed.

Its logical and doesn?t help us at all. All it does was show that some non clones were on it. Since it appears to be a medical Acclamator that just picked up wounded and survivors. So we will just have to bend to RotS and assume they are the command crew.

So Boba?s a hic and didn?t recognize the hand full of aliens.

And it don?t say there not just the command crew. Were at an impase. So lets bend to the RotS and assume they are the command crew.

No its not. All it says was he saw one of two uniforms though out the ship. So it doesn?t even say were he sees these non clones.

So this Acclamator was some kind of Medical Acclamator and was not part of Kenobis forces. It came latter and took wounded and survivors off world for some reason. It?s a support Acclamator.

 

I don't remember anything like that.

Regardless, I wouldn't characterize 12-17 months into the war as the "begining stages."

Who do you think actually chose to follow the strategy of sabotage? Do you think Yoda and some other Jedi sat down with Palpatine and agreed to have this be their main focus?

There's no evidence for any higher-ups planning this. If the strategy was foolish, it wouldn't reflect badly on the Republic in general.

And it's not like a whole lot of resources were spent on these sabotage missions anyways. The amount of "efforts being duplicated" is fairly small, only a handful of guys. I don't think those same people could meaningfully influence droid numbers. If they could realistically get Grievous's numerical advantage down to a manageable level, I think they would try.

I think the clones on Kamino were all green troops who were about to be deployed. In Jedi Trial, the figure I've seen cited is 20,000 troops, which is warranted for a guy like Skywalker. But yeah, I dont dispute any of that.

Patrolling the spacelanes?

The Y-wing could do that, but I haven't seen any evidence it was even used during the Clone Wars. I bet a couple E-wings could also get the job done, but they weren't in existence either.

A massive fleet strike would probably eliminate the facility, correct. But the Republic didn't have lots of extra fleets to fly around to these dozens of factories.

The back cover merely mentions "sabotage, espionage, ambush, and assassination." It doesn't say anything about blowing up facilities. Of course, back covers aren't terribly great sources as it is.

The Confederacy wouldn't put significant effort into tricking and entrapping commandos, because destroying them wouldn't doom the Republic like a huge number of lost warships would. Rather, they would merely increase the secuirity a lot. That was most likely a big concern for the commandos, so they would want to avoid Sep

 

Shatterpoint specifically states that as of 6 months into the war, the clones are the only ground-soldier forces the Republic has. It also says that the Jedi were the ones exclusively responsible for raising local guerilla forces, and that the CIS has numerical superioty in both battle droids and its naval size, with it being described as having a "droid-walled frontier."

Also, consider that the clones being used as small-scale commando raids with 200-to-1 kill ratios is blatantly contradicted by Jedi Trial, which is ironically what Traviss' supporters most often look to. The Republic army there consisted of 20,000 clone infantry, at least 50,000 non-clone infantry, and thousands more starship and tank crews. They were facing an army of one million droids. At the suppsoed GGAR ratio, the clones themselves should have been able to take on a CIS force of 4 million droids. However, the Republic force was torn to shreds, with even the army's leaderss aying that 20,000 clones against a million droids was dangerously low and was only being used because there was no other option.