Saga "Off-camera" events that you would have liked to see

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Polydroxol, May 1, 2014.

  1. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    @darth ladnar

    You've explained your theory well. My counter argument is that the simple reason the Rebel's used the back entrance, as shown to them by the Ewoks is that it was an easier point of entry into the generator building. It was a good move since they did gain entry quite easily. However, & as I said earlier this becomes irrelevant when they are captured. The Imperials then have the option of taking them out through whichever entrance they like. Clearly the Imperials knew of the Rebel's movements since such a large force including the AT-ST's turned up so quickly after they entered the generator.

    I think focusing on the definition of the term "legion" & referencing history is a bit misguided. Star Wars films are simple movies with simple story telling. Palpatine tells the audience that a legion of troops are awaiting the Rebels. Cut to the next scene & a large number of troops, officers & AT-ST's are surrounding the Rebels - that's the legion. The Rebels are hugely outnumbered & all hope seems lost...then the Ewoks turn up. The point is that the Ewoks with their primitive technology could outfight the Imperials in their native environment. The point isn't that the Rebels were lucky enough to attack where most of the Imperials were cut off & couldn't get to the fight.

    Looking at that part of your theory for a moment. I agree that since we didn't see the AT-AT we can assume that it was either cut off or couldn't get through the dense forest to the battle. Btw I disagree that this was their most "effective" weapon. It was their most powerful but the AT-ST's were probably more effective given the terrain. Anyway, there is no good reason why troops, scouts & AT-ST's would be cut off by some trees. Your argument was that the majority of the "legion" was around on the front side of the generator building. However after the fighting began those troops & AT-ST's surely had plenty of time to get to the battle, even if the back entrance was a bit of a distance away. The troops could have even traveled through the generator building itself to the back entrance. Also, after the Imperials are defeated & Han coaxes out some troops stationed inside, the Rebels then casually stroll into the generator building & place explosives everywhere. Are you saying that while they were doing this there were hundreds or thousands of Imperial troops right outside the front door??

    What is far safer to assume is that a smaller number of troops remained at the front entrance to guard it along with the AT-AT (although that may have stayed at the landing platform). The rest of the legion engaged the Rebels, which was the whole purpose behind Palpatine sending them there.
    Last edited by Darth_Downunder, May 26, 2014
  2. darth ladnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2013
    star 3
    @Darth_Downunder, looking back on my initial post, I can see that one might interpret that my initial post was suggesting that my interpretation of the scene was the only interpretation of the scene, and that's not what I meant. Now, I'm not saying that you still can't point out that there are errors in my interpretation. For instance, if I claimed that the Imperials lost on Endor because all their soldier's were suffering from amoebic dysentery, then that would be pretty silly because we don't see any evidence of that. (No Imperials are shown barfing or running to bathroom.)

    I would agree with you that I'm making too much of the term "legion" if that was my main complaint with what Palpatine said. My main complaint is really that Palpatine suggests that the Rebels will encounter an insurmountable force, and I don't think that's what we see.

    I understand where you are coming from. You're interpreting that line more loosely, and you're basically saying, "Well, these days they would've put in 10,000 Imperial troops with CGI and 100,000 Ewoks, but back then, they really couldn't do that, and because of budget constraints those few hundred troops are meant to represent the huge legion." If you go from that interpretation, then I'd say you're completely correct.

    For me, however, that just doesn't sit well. I want things to be more literal than that. When Palpatine says that the forces protecting the shield generator are supposed to be insurmountably large, then I expect to see an insurmountably large force, and I think GL should've created some more CGI forces in later editions if he wanted me to have that interpretation.

    I'd also like to clarify one thing about my interpretation. I don't think that back entrance is anywhere close to the dish. I think that because I think we would be able to see that huge dish towering over the back entrance if it was anywhere close to that entrance. I also think that because I think the dish's huge explosion would've engulfed the entire area around the backdoor if it the back entrance was anywhere close to it. Again, all of what I'm saying may simply be accounted for by the fact that they couldn't do the special effects well enough to make it seem that the back entrance was near to the main dish and the following explosion. However, for me, I take it as literal fact that the reason you never see the dish or experience its explosion is that it is very far away from the main dish building.

    The way I envision it is like this. When Han and the other rebels get inside the back entrance you see that long tunnel with the 2 long lines of orange thingies with electricity arcing between them. Just by looking at it, you can tell that that tunnel goes back for something like a mile or a half mile, but you can't actually see the end of the tunnel because of the angle. So, in my view, that tunnel goes on for miles and miles until it ultimately arrives at the main shield generator. So, the back entrance is a huge distance away from the main dish. That's why you can't see the main dish from there and that's why the huge explosion at the main dish doesn't raze the area around the back entrance.

    If you accept what I'm saying that the back entrance is separated from the main dish building by miles (and there's nothing in the film to discount this interpretation and that orange tunnel does seem to go back a considerable distance and ends who knows where), then everything else I'm saying falls into place. There really is a full legion of 10,000 Imperial troops stationed there and a bunch of AT-ATs, but this force that Palpatine believes is insurmountable just can't make it from the front entrance to the back entrance because of the great distance and the very thick forest in between (and perhaps also because that long tunnel actually tunnels straight through very hilly and rocky terrain which blocks the route). The Imperials simply never counted on the Rebels discovering this back entrance, sort of like the Imperials never counted on the Rebels discovering a weak point in the first Death Star, but this is still somewhat more realistic because the Imperials have some protection there while the exhaust port in the DS1 has absolutely nothing protecting it. This interpretation allows there to be absolutely no contradiction between Palpatine's words and descriptions of an insurmountable force and what you see in the film.

    If you want to go further with this (though this isn't required for my interpretation to work), the plans that Palpatine allowed the Bothans to find purposefully leave out the back entrance. This would explain why the Rebels weren't aware of the back entrance while they were already aware of the front entrance and planning to enter there and this would also why Palpatine expected the Rebels would be stopped by his insurmountable legion since they were stationed at the only entrance that the Rebels knew about.
  3. Kato Sai Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2014
    star 4
    I would have liked to see as Sidious is telling Anakin about the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise a flashback of Palpatine killing his master.
  4. TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2013
    star 1
    This seems to be the most logical, and best explanation that doesn't require any suspension of disbelief. The DS2 wasn't finished yet, barely even half way done. They probably were in a crunch just to get the laser cannon online in time for the Rebel attack.
  5. ThreadSketch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2013
    star 3
    Of course, this also doesn't account for the fact that the shield generator located on Endor's moon is powerful enough to protect the entire battle station, yet, despite being a big honking dish, is TINY compared to the DSII itself...which means the Empire could have easily just bought or made a shield generator to float out into orbit first and started building the station around that instead. [face_plain]

    ...

    But hey, yeah, it's only a movie! :p

    Actually, what makes me scratch my head more is how they'd manage to get ships and materials constantly coming to the DSII without needing to flick the shield off and on just as constantly. I think I recall the ROTJ novelization saying that a few Rebel ships got creamed by accidentally grazing the shield, so no one, Imperial or otherwise, would be able to come and go from it while that shield is working. It's not like Spaceballs where the shield is some literal glass bubble with a handy hatch to open up, although that would be hilarious.
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe the generator, in order to function, needs to be outside whatever it's shielding- a bit like the holoprojectors - they don't project the holograms around themselves - they project them upward.
    TheOneX_Eleazar likes this.
  7. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    In the RotJ novelization, Han says something about the Empire sucking a lot of power out of Endor. I interpret that to mean the shield generator uses Endor's geothermal energy to project the shield. So if that's the case, putting the generator in space would cut it off from its power supply.
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  8. TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2013
    star 1
    Or since it was simply just cheaper to do it that way. Since it was only meant to be used during construction they most likely will go with the cheapest option that meets their needs.
    Sarge likes this.
  9. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I would have liked to have seen exactly how and when Padme got pregnant. I bet Anakin cried.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Jun 7, 2014
  10. Rogue Five Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2014
    star 2
    HOW she got pregnant? When a daddy Jedi and mommy Senator love each other VERY much...
    The closest we got to that would be the original Clone Wars volume 2. It had a sweet little scene of Anakin briefly returning from the war and embracing Padm'e, before the camera moved outside the building and we see the lights in their room go out. It's subtle, but I liked it.
    mes520, BigAl6ft6 and gracesonnet like this.
  11. Jair Crawford Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    Probably too many things to reasonably fit in the 6 movies. lol

    A few little cameos of Magister Hego Damask in TPM during the senate scenes would be cool, despite the canon of such a scenario being in question.

    Maybe a bit of a more potent history to Anakin's life on Tatooine before Qui-Gon comes into the picture. The novel depicted an interesting scene involving a Tusken. I thought that would have been cool to see.

    More friendliness between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

    A little bit of General Skywalker, republic hero of the Clone Wars. You really miss that aspect of his character in the movies.

    The beginning of the separatist movement involving Padme.

    The Jedi coming into realization about what happened to Sifo-Dyas.

    Qui-Gon's first lesson with Yoda on returning from the Netherworld.

    The burial of Owen and Beru.

    The emotional aftermath of the destruction of Alderaan, among just about everyone.

    Leia coming to grips with the truth that her father is Darth Vader. Would she be able to come to forgive him as Luke had done?
  12. mratm23 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2014
    star 3
    Those can be seen in TCW.
  13. Jair Crawford Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    True. But I think just a little smidgen of it could've done well in the movies as well. It helps us connect the characters from the show with the characters in the movie more. And it adds more depth of character to the movies as well.

    The movies did well portraying the more troubled side of Anakin, but it also seems like that's the only side of him we saw in the movies. I would have liked a little bit of juxtaposition.
  14. MJack Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2014
    I think they could add the stormtroopers finding and searching the remains of a Rebel base on Dantooine. It could be interesting as a first time viewer wouldn't know at that point that Leia was lying.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  15. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    We saw what was implied to be such a thing in CW (not TCW, CW). Well it was just zooming out of their apartment when the light shut off but still. Pretty sure the director said it was an intentional implication

    Oh crap lol, reading @Rogue Five 's response would have served me well
    The price of laziness
    Last edited by Seagoat, Jul 5, 2014
  16. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    The beginning of Palpatine's "friendship" with Anakin. All we got in TPM was "And you, young Skywalker, we will watch your career with great interest". Maybe an official thank you from the new Chancellor to the boy who blew up the droid control ship? In his office perhaps? Where he offers the young boy some non-Jedi related mentoring?
    sarlaccsaurs-rex and Iron_lord like this.
  17. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    ^ "Have you ever been in a Turk-Sith prison, Ani?"
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  18. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4

    It's pretty solidly referenced in AOTC that Palps has been mentoring Anakin over the years, then continues in ROTS. Maybe not as much as we would have liked (the AOTC scene was a pickup, and does feel last-minute as a result, plus some of the ROTS deleted scenes make the depth of their bond stronger), but it's there.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Jul 8, 2014
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  19. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2

    True, but I think the origins of the bond could/should have been shown towards the end of TPM
  20. Taelin Thurn Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Anakin's knighting was shown on screen in the original Clone Wars series from 2003.

    He didn't take the formal trials, he was too busy fighting the war. Obi-Wan went before the Council to argue on his behalf, that he'd met the requirements, naming them off and how his various acts (losing his hand to Dooku, defeating Asajj Ventress in a duel, ect.) far exceeded the actual requirements for Knighthood.
    You can watch the ceremony at that link, but it involved being surrounded by the Jedi Council in a darkened room, lit only by sabers, as Yoda dubs him "Jedi, Knight of the Republic" and cuts of his padawan braid with his saber.
    Last edited by Taelin Thurn, Jul 14, 2014
  21. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That scene rocks!
  22. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah I remember that. It's not "canon" anymore of course but still a good scene. Would've liked to see it in a movie though.
  23. Taelin Thurn Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2014

    I frankly don't care if Disney calls it canon anymore or not. More real to me than the Disney Sequel trilogy.
    Last edited by Taelin Thurn, Jul 15, 2014
  24. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 5
    Lucasfilm decide canon & make the movies. Disney own Lucasfilm, just as they own Marvel. So what? Corporations own other corporations. Not sure why people keep bringing up Disney. Lucasfilm run the Star Wars franchise just as Marvel Studios run their films.
  25. Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Back on topic, please people - and let's keep any debates about 'canon' out of the Saga forum. Not relevant.