Off of the Topic: Social Thread v4.1 (Special Edition)

Still kinda relates to theology, in a way. The ordered nature of the universe, and the precision with which most of its essential components can be measured (even my our pathetic standards) tend to suggest some sort of intelligent design.

 

That doesn't suggest anything to me at all.

The "order" could be a result of causal, physical relationships between the celestial bodies that only happenned to occur either a) after things fell into place right after being sucked in and exploded back out every billion years as detailed in The Universe in a Nutshell, or b) might not be as "orderred" as we think it is -- we've never seen the universe in any other way so how are we to know it couldn't be arranged in a manner that is much more organized and friendly to life? We know nothing.

 

Disagree.

 

Is that a command?

 

Well, I'm gonna change the subject now.

I saw a guy one time on Premium Blend or Friday Night Stand up, don't recall which. He had a guitar, which he just strummed the whole time. Rather dry sense of humor. At one time, his mom came out and they did a weird little skit. And he told his mom he quit medical school, or something like that. Does anyone have any clue who I'm talking about?

 

Possibly Demetri Martin.

 

We know nothing.

Exactly.

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..."

` The C.S. Lewis

 

Silver, to be honest, I usually don't like you..but today, you are a genius and I thank you profusely.


Demetri Martin.

THANKS

 

Ephisus, you took that quote completely the wrong way and I've always hated that Lewis quote (and many others) anyway.


Beafet -- you're welcome. Somehow I just knew it was him.

 

Some great Demetri Martin one-liners.

Employee of the month is a good example of how somebody can be both a winner and a loser at the same time.

"I went into a clothing store, and the lady asked me what size I was. I said, 'Actual'. I'm not to scale."

Every dance move is the robot if you can imagine an advanced enough robot.

When you have a fat friend, there are no see-saws. Only catapults.

I think that when you get dressed in the morning, sometimes you're really making a decision about your behavior for the day. Like if you put on flipflops, you're saying: "Hope I don't get chased today."

I use this product called "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter." Because sometimes when I'm eating toast, I like to be incredulous. How was breakfast? Unbelievable.

 

The "order" consistently observed in the unvierse can be replicated from simple mathematical rules that require no intelligence, and no divine intervention to be carried out.

In almost all cases, the simplest explanation is the best: the "purpose" of the universe is to exist. Anything beyond this is an unncessary condition, and thus, quite likely, inaccurate.

-Spiff

 

So, what you're saying is (and I'm attempting to simplify here for my own limited intellect): The seeming order of the universe is caused by everything adhering to its own rules, which are mathematical in nature, and need no divine intervention to exist?

Lemme know if I got that right, Spiff.

 

I would agree with that

 

So, then, by reason, our existence is without meaning, other than . . . . um, we exist?

Dang. What a let-down.

 

Our existence is without purpose. Purpose and meaning don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.

 

I have a purpose. It may be to annoy the crud out of all you....it may not.

 

So, then, by reason, our existence is without meaning, other than . . . . um, we exist?

I don't think a god is necessary for our existence to have a meaning. My life has a meaning to my family, my friends, to society, and so on. Maybe we mean nothing to the Universe, but while we are here we mean something to ourselves.

 

My life has a meaning to my family, my friends, to society, and so on.

Exactly I think a lot of people get hung up in searching for something greater than what needs to be. If you exist for the sake of existing, your purpose is to be yourself.

-Spiff

 

If it's true that we exist simply to exist, and that the meaning of our lives is what we do with them . . . . why do so many people (y'know, like billions of 'em) seek a greater meaning outside of themselves?

In the end, it would seem, that we are of roughly the same significance as the electrons that this conversation is inconveniencing. Maybe even less so.

 

What doesn't make sense to me is when people argue (like Spiff did) that things are observable clearly without divine intervention, or that don't need a God to happen.

Scientifically speaking, IF God exists, then He exists in all cases and there is no observable data as to what can happen without God.

If God exists then everything we observe, we observe in the context of God existing, and cannot actually posit that something can happen without His existing, since we have no frame of reference or experimentation to positively affirm that statement. The condition "without God" cannot be met and therefore nothing can be concluded to absolutely be possible without God/divine intervention.

My point does not so much prove that there is a God, just that yours doesn't really manage to prove there isn't.

M. Scott

 

See, I would just kind of go with the cause and effect way of thinking. The effect is, the Universe exists. What's the cause?

Life exists - also an effect. What's the cause?

 

why do so many people (y'know, like billions of 'em) seek a greater meaning outside of themselves?

Cause humans are flawed beings that seek happiness.

 

Cause humans are flawed beings that seek happiness.

The concept of flaw implies a concept of perfection. If we all just happened and there's nothing beyond us then you'd think we'd accept whatever we are as the ultimate state possible and be content.

So, if there is no greater power or purpose, where does this concept of perfection come from and why do humans seek it?

M. Scott

 

God.

 

Ah, Thats Rene Descartes.... I think, therefore I am.... He says that the existance of God is proven because the idea of him exists.

Like.... Things that create can't make things more perfect than themselves. For example, a Tree can make other trees, and things less than a tree, such as leaves... but it can't make things greater, like humans. So the "idea of God" is something that could only have been created by a being as perfect as the idea.... GOD.... because humans couldn't have created it on their own....

Does that make sense.

I'm a strong believer in God, however, I don't call it "God." And organized religion, don't even get me started. (Don't agree with it at ALL)