Off Subject: Lord of the Rings

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Mandalore74, Apr 16, 2001.

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  1. Knight1192 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Quick question here. How is this thread off subject? Yes, I know we primarily discuss Star Wars. But this particular forum is the Literature Forum. While Star Wars literature (and semmingly more to the point, EU literature) will always be the primary focus in the forum, we have talked about other books. And we've discussed history in here as well. Doesn't seem, as we do dicuss more literature than just Star Wars, that we should worry terribly about going off subject if you ask me.
  2. junio Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    You're welcome Boba!
  3. Ooryl Qyrgg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2000
    star 3
    I thought Unfinished Tales was excellent, as it wrapped up the whole history of the place. Hey, a question, TomBombadil, any theories on him, cos he's not explained anywhere. I heard that he might have been a wizard, but only 5 went to middle earth, and they are accounted for.
  4. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4

    Hey, thanks for the info. on this. I always wondered about Middle-Earth....

    Although I will say that it's more credible if the story takes place on another planet. Since there's no evidence anywhere of Giants, Orcs, Trolls, Goblins etc. in bones that archeologists have found, I'd like to think the story takes place in a place other than Earth. Plus, I find it tiresome, when reading "The Hobbit", to be constantly reminded that this took place "a long time ago when things were different", or similiar reminders along those lines. This entrenches the story in our past and makes it less appealing...
    In addition, I've always disliked storylines that take place in the past/future of Earth (like Star Trek), since it seems to me an unimaginative and limiting way to present a storyline - why Earth? Why not somewhere else? That's why I'll always like the "Dragonlance" books better than the LOTR novels; the LOTR may have a better storyline (that's debatable, of course) and may have come first, but at least "Dragonlance" obviously takes place on a planet other than Earth, and if only for that reason I like that series better...
    Another good example is the Star Wars universe; a universe like Star Wars can be whatever the author/filmmaker wants it to be since it's not in this solar system. Sound in space? No problem; it's not based on Earth's solar system so why not? Technology that's light-years ahead of anything we have on earth? No problem, the story takes place a long time ago and in a galaxy far away, so anything's possible...
    I guess that's one of the other reasons I like SW so much better than any of the other Sci-fi franchises out there (Star Trek, Babylon five, Farscape, etc.) - it's the ONLY one that doesn't take place in Earth's future.....

    *******************************************************

    Middle-Earth actually refers to the land mass that will be later remolded to become Eurasia + Africa.

    Other continents are much younger, unlike the former they are created by the end of the Second Age, when the originally flat world is reshaped in a spheric world. Valinor (and Tol Eressëa) are separated from Earth and Númenor sinks down in the oceans to become Atalantë.
  5. Darth_Smeagol Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 4
    its a fantasy novel why does it need to be credible?
  6. Mandalore74 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2001
    star 3
    Well, I started The Hobbit yesterday and got abut 100 pages into it. I must say that it is even better than I remember it when I had to read it in 7th grade for school. Can't wait to move on to the "trilogy" in a few days.
  7. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4


    Yes, I agree that "The Hobbit" rocks; I'm reading it now, also.

    Granted, the LOTR is a fantasy and as such doesnt' have to be credible, but, like I said, I enjoy reading stories that don't have to have a basis on Earth since that way I "believe" them more (if that makes sense...)

    I guess another way to look at "Middle-Earth" is that it's a parallel world, and not the past of this Earth, but another one....It's interesting that Atlantis is also part of the "Middle-Earth" mythology, since that's another city that didn't really exist (outside of fantasy novels/comic books...)
  8. Grand Admiral Reese Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 1999
    star 6
    Tolkien said that he considered Middle-earth(as of the War of the Ring) to be Earth about 8000 BC or so. I wish it really was that way.
  9. wampa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    "I beg to differ, I have bigger dictionaries as do many people."

    Either way, the leather bound one I saw at Walden was HUGE.

    I might read the Silmarrion and Unfinished Tales one day. The Appendix in the RotK was so intriguing that I flipped through those volumes. They contain printing from his early drafts.
  10. Thrawn666 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 1
    MANDALORE

    i would read THE SILMARILLION before lord of the rings because it takes place in middle earth long long before the hobbit and lotr.
    there are some references in lotr to events of the silmarillion. it is not a must but i think it is better that way, also to understand the whole different types of creatures, where they came from and the creation of middle earth. it actually was created from songs, only to imagine that.....beautiful thought.
  11. Mandalore74 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2001
    star 3
    Is the Silmarilloin a novel or like a sourcebook? And where would I find it?
  12. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
    The Silmarillion is more a collection of novellas referring to the same story. There are five parts in the Silmarillion :

    Aïnulindalë (the tale of the birth of the world)

    Valaquenta (the tale of the molding of the world)

    Quenta Silmarillion (the largest part, divided in chapters, telling the tale of the jewels Feänor created)

    Akallabeth (the tale of Atalantë)

    The War of the Ring (a shortened description of the events happening in LOTR)


    Personnally I wouldn't read the Silmarillion first. It's much denser than the Hobbit or LOTR itself and it is not, as opposed to the former two, a book published the way JRR would have published it had he lived long enough. Some passages have been written rather early (before the Hobbit) where some others have been written much later (10+ years after LOTR).

    If, when you have read the Hobbit and LOTR, and liked them, you found interest in it and want to know more about the legends glimpsed at in these two books, read the Silmarillion. If you start reading it you might find it really disappointing.
  13. Grand Admiral Reese Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 1999
    star 6
    If you read the Silmarillion before LotR and The Hobbit, be sure not to read the last part! It gives everything away!

    But you should realy read LotR first and use The Silmarillion to expand your knowledge of the reasons of it all.
  14. jedimasterED Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 4
    I'd recommend reading in this order:

    The Hobbitt
    The Lord of the Rings
    The Silmarillion
    all the rest! :D
  15. Grand Admiral Reese Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 1999
    star 6
    The rest being Unfinished Tales, The Book of Lost Tales 1 and 2, and the other books of the History of Middle-earth?
  16. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
  17. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    You know what I find cool? The tombstone that Tolkien shares with his wife has "Luthien" carved under her name, and "Beren" carved under his. Very sweet.
  18. Mandalore74 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2001
    star 3
    I find it ironic that the longest thread I've ever started in this board is not related to star wars at all. Weird. BTW, The Hobbit kicks ass. I really liked Beorn. Just got out of the Elven-King's hall.
  19. Grand Admiral Reese Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 1999
    star 6
    Beorn's a cool guy.

    About the Beren&Luthien thing, it is very sweet. Tolkien really loved his wife.
  20. junio Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    Well, I just started reading The Lord of the Rings yesterday night.

    I'm loving it up to now.

    I read The Hobbit about 2 months ago. And I loved it! Beorn was great! One of my favorite characters in that book. I'm sorry that he doesn't appear in TLOTR, or so I heard.

    I can't wait to really get into the story of The Lord of the Rings...
  21. Mandalore74 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2001
    star 3
    Ok, I finished The Hobbit last night. It was awesome! Now I have started The Fellowship of teh Ring. I just got throught the prologue and i am confused as hell! Is the entire book going to be like this? It was just a recap of things and places I has never heard of at all. I hope I undertand the story!
  22. junio Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    I kinda ignored the Prologue of The Fellowship of the Ring. It's unclear and strange. Just go on to the first chapter of the book, which is none like the Prologue! You are gonna love the book as much as I'm loving it up to now.
  23. Duredhel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2001
    The rest of the story of the War of the Ring is much easier to understand than the prologue (which you don't really need to read through to understand the books if you've read The Hobbit).

    This series is one of my favorites (and also where I get this name from).
  24. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
    An interesting spelling of Drow (Dark Elf)
    Has the entire Dictionnary of elven language been released overseas ?
  25. RingoJuna Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2001
    star 3
    I do believe Middle Earth was just that...Earth a long time ago. The 2nd Music(the period in which we live now) is man's reward for getting kinda shafted in the past.
    Heck, i've never even read the books, but it's amazing what you can learn playing RPG's
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