Official 2004 Presidential Election Result Page

Gonk, it's not exactly a snub that W visited Mexico first. W and Vicente Fox had a long relationship as trade partners and friends going back to W's days as governor of Texas.

No, I think it amounts to a snub. Sure, he's had relations in the past, but the precedent is there for the station of the office. Other than the history and alliances and whatnot, Canada's America's biggest trading partner. It makes political sense for Canada to be first. This is not totally indignation over Canada not being overlooked at this point, it's that he summarily changed protocol. If you're good friends with someone already all fine and dandy -- but you're expected to follow paticular diplomatic traditions (such as for instance the fact in Britain that the Prime Minister holds the power to hold an election and can old it at his discretion) and you're not supposed to change them out of personal relationships. I think that would be stupid AND unprofessional, and I'm only content with giving GWB one of those labels at this point.


America will always value our relations with Canada, but, claims of how conservatives are stuck in the 1950's aside, it's forward looking to acknowledge that the future lies south.

I'm not sure how that adds up though, to changing protocol. Mexico certainly would not be snubbed with the changing of tradition. Certainly the future of America being south has more to do with social factors than economic ones -- Mexico's HUGE in the border states but not in terms of the money it brings them but the population moving across the border.

Meixco would not have noticed if GWB kept with tradition. Canada would. One wonders then, why he didn't and if it is cooincidental. Apparently Mexico was not do near the future of the United States for GWB to do the same thing a second time.

 

That makes sense, Gonk. Thanks for helping clear it up with me.

 

I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be attending the Presidential Inaugeration in Washington on Jan. 20th. I will also be attending the Michigan Innaugeral Ball. It's all going to cost me quite a bit but it's a once in a lifetime oppertunity.

I will post some more details when I know them.



In other news, for Deathstarr1977, I just want to say that despite the election win, this fall wasn't the best for hunting. I only ended up with 64 Canada Geese, a stagering 60 less than last year. The grouse numbers were way down, and then Deer Season we suffere abnormally warm weather. That kind of limited the Deer movement. I saw quite a few smaller bucks, and ended up shooting a big spike horn on Thanksgiving night. Not so good. Next year I plan on doing a little more deer managment and plant some of our feilds to bring in more animals. I did actually see a hell of a big buck when I was leaving the camp one day. But with no snow it was impossible to track. Anyway, all is well and better luck next year.

And now, back to the Election results debate...

 

Yes, please let us know regarding the inuaguration stuff.

I am actually about to purchase a few guns, as I posted in one of the social threads. I haven't been hunting yet this season, but I did a lot of target practicing with a buddy of mine. I am fairly certain that Deer season goes through January here, although I could be wrong.

 

The following was posted in another thread, but I found it to be quite interesting. We spend so much time discussing specific issues, it was intriguing to hear a general POV...

J-Rod

We, IMO, love NASCAR, Corporate muscle in our economy, low taxes, personal reponsibilities and choice, McDonald's, and the good ol' fashioned American Way

My response would be that we, and by we I mean I (after all, I can only speak for myself ) love Football, Baseball and Basketball, a strong national defense and tough-minded internationalism, consumer muscle in our economy, a private enterprise system that has government protection against depression and extreme poverty, personal responsibility and equal opportunity, social justice and a willingness to not only accept, but embrace others' POVs...that, IMO, is the American Way.

EDIT: And IMO Mcdonalds is terrible...I'm a Popeyes kinda guy.

 

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND EQUAL OUTCOMES!!!

Just wanted to get that out there.

Proceed with the regularly scheduled programming.

 

I would just like to make an observation that maybe it's time for this thread (and topic) to close, seeing as how it's drifted and the election has come and gone. We've got our President, we pretty much know who likes him and who doesn't, so why don't we just send this thread on its way?

 

I just want to know what happened to the guy who said he would hang himself in protest if Bush was reelected. Is he dead? If so, that is sad. But I can't help but laugh because I have a feeling the democrats will have a victory next time.

 

[image=http://img40.exs.cx/img40/220/villagebushlg1ty.jpg]

Best representation of GWB I've seen, ever.

 

J-Rod:
But Mav they lied to our grandparents and parents. Do we let the lie be told to us and then our children too?

I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.

 

mav said...I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.

"Give us your money and we'll hold it for you and invest it and there'll be more than you gave when you retire."

That's a lie as there is no "lock box" and the payments go to the general fund. That is why they don't want us to invest it ourselves...they won't get the money.

That fund won't be enough to cover us or our children.

 

"Give us your money and we'll hold it for you and invest it and there'll be more than you gave when you retire."

That's a lie as there is no "lock box" and the payments go to the general fund. That is why they don't want us to invest it ourselves...they won't get the money.

That fund won't be enough to cover us or our children.

It'll be enough to cover your generation and possibly mine. The later generation's screwed. BTW, they didn't lie, it is exactly that way, but the problem was that our population grew too fast and so did our life expectency rate.

 

so did our life expectency rate.

How's about repealing ciggarette taxes and seatbelt laws in an effert to turn that around? Sounds stupid, but makes scence.

 

There is no problem with Social Security.

 

I'm fully in favor of no seat belt laws or cigarette laws. In fact I support smokers even tohugh I don't personally smoke. However, our society has become more feminine and with that femininity we have safety laws and anti-smoking folk.

 

Well, as of today it is now 100% official.

The Constitution requires:

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

That day was set by Congress:

The electors of President and Vice President of each State shall meet and give their votes on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December next following their appointment at such place in each State as the legislature of such State shall direct.

Today is the first Monday following the second Wednesday.

And the electors met today. Despite an attempt to block Ohio's electors from meeting, they met, and cast their votes for President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Yay...4 more years of GWB. Can't wait. I look forward to the flaming inferno that America shall become.

 

There is no problem with Social Security.

Hmmmm...Ain't what Kerry said in the 3rd debate. Was he fibbing?

He lost that debate, by the way...

 

What is interesting is to see how the Democrats have found 561 ballots in King County (which is 60-40 Democrat) that were declared invalid because no signature was on file.

Now, in a hand recount, because they are on the wrong end of a 42-vote margin, they want to force these ballots to be counted even though by law, they are invalid.

Washington State might be without a governor for a while...

 

I think the problem with social security is that it's more efficient to just save and invest the $ yourself. You usually get less money than you put in. Besides, what's the point? Just save the money yourself.

 

Of intrest from "Editor & Publisher":

Are Newspaper Readers Going Republican, Too?

By E&P Staff

Published: December 14, 2004 5:00 PM ET

NEW YORK Even as a new Gallup poll shows that the public values ?values? less than November exit polls suggested, another survey from the same outfit released today showed a historic surge in Republican party affiliation.

In Gallup's latest poll this month, those identifying themselves as Republicans jumped to 37% of the public, with Democrats now clearly trailing with 32%.

Democrats have long held more party members than Republicans. During the Clinton years, the bulge was about 5% to 6%. As recently as late-October of this year the Democratic edge was 37% to 34%.

Gallup noted today: ?Post-election shifts in partisanship after presidential elections or midterm congressional elections are not routine, but are also not uncommon.?

Another Gallup poll also released today showed that, contrary to many press reports, ?values? ranked well behind the war in Iraq, terrorism and the economy as a prime concern of Americans.

Comments?

 

Comment: Polls are BS.

 

Comment: Polls are BS.


LOL

Now the left finally gets it

 

Oh I've always gotten it. It's the democrats that don't get it. Try not to insult me by lumping me in with them. I may have voted democrat but I certainly support them about as much as I support republicans.


I'm pretty sure if I tried hard enough I could find a link between cherry pie and rape.

 

JF

Thats not what I intended to imply regarding equal opportunity...so instead, I'll just quote JFK.

...if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."