Official 2004 US Elections Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, Jul 6, 2004.

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  1. Darth Rayder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 4
    An interesting point, which I think has been overlooked....with the latest vote count in, Bush has gained more *total votes* nationally than Ronald Raegan did when he had his near "clean sweep." No candidate has ever recieved more votes than George Bush has tonight. Ever.
  2. Lord_Darth_Vader Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2001
    star 5
    "The election is over, more or less, but I think what is important is not that it's over and that Bush has won, but that he's going to be making an announcement over at the Reagan center declaring victory whether the Democrats concede tonight or not. I don't think that's been done before."

    Gonk that just proves Bushes arrogance. And yes, another four years not only will Roe V Wade be lost, but my Social Seccurity when I retire will be shot to hell somewhere in Iraq
  3. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Good grief, accept reality! 130,000 people aren't going to materialize and say, "Oops, I didn't get to vote." nor are all of the incoming absentee voters unanimously select Kerry.

    I was referring to the atttitude. You think Bush won, fine, BUT LET THE PROCESS FINISH UP!




    b4k4^2
  4. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I wouldn't be too proud of raw total numbers, the population grows.

  5. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    Calm down people, and be a bit more respectful please.

    I know it's been a very tough night for Democrats. This is a devastating series of losses to them. The Senate Minority Leader is going to lose, the GOP is picking up 4 US Senate Seats, the House GOP majority is even bigger than before and George W. Bush has for all intensive purposes won this election.

    I hope that we can be conciliatory towards one another, and I hope John Kerry does the honorable thing. For the good of the country, he should concede honorably. If he drags this out, it only makes him look worse. This isn't 2000. Bush is going to win Nevada, New Mexico and Iowa. Bush is also ahead in the popular vote by about 4 million votes.

    For the good of the nation, I hope that individuals can learn to tolerate defeat with graciousness and strive to unite this country on good ideas which can come from both sides of the aisle.
  6. Darth Rayder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 4
    No, I understand that...just find it interesting...seems the "heavy turnout" didn't help the Dems as much as everyone expected it to.
  7. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    OK, I agree with you. Kerry shouldn't have conceded tonight, I agree, let the process finish up. But I don't think people should be boldly presuming that Kerry can still win, which I have heard.

    Sorry for jumping on you, Jansons_Funny_Twin.
  8. SnorreSturluson Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2003
    star 4
    Good grief, accept reality! 130,000 people aren't going to materialize and say, "Oops, I didn't get to vote." nor are all of the incoming absentee voters unanimously select Kerry.

    I think the main point is that there are more than houndred thousand so-called "provisional" ballots AFAIK mainly from districts with African-American majority. Those people vote 90% Democrats. If those 170.000 (I think that was the number) are mainly from African-American and Kerry picks up his 90% and if all those votes are accepted he wins.
    Chances are small but they still exist. As long as the result of Ohio is not the final one (and Kerry picks up Wisconsin) he should not concede defeat and Bush should also repect this and not hold some victory speech.
  9. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    I don't know where you're getting your information from Snorre that 90% of these ballots are in minority districts. It's simply not the case.

    The military ballots, which will go approximately 70% for Bush, haven't been counted yet either.

    Ohio has been won by President Bush by a comfortable enough margin to invalidate a challenge. There is no way Kerry can make up a 140,000 vote deficit with many of the provisional ballots likely to get tossed anyway.

    Kerry's campaing is in it's last gasp before defeat, and I remain hopeful that they will do the honorable thing.
  10. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Kerry's campaing is in it's last gasp before defeat, and I remain hopeful that they will do the honorable thing.

    I would call it the dishonorable thing to do to cut and run to save face.

    Kerry should not concede until every vote has been counted.



    b4k4^2
  11. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    But that's just it, this election has certainly turned a lot of the conventional wisdom upside-down.

    In most areas, the so-called "youth block," which was expected to lean heavily toward Kerry, has been about evenly distributed.

    Many minority groups aren't voting straight party, and actually examining specific candidates.

    I'm glad people are making up their own mind, instead of simply voting how they were expected to, no matter who such groups actually choose.
  12. Lord_Darth_Vader Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2001
    star 5
    DM I respect you. One soldier to another of combat in the service of our great country. But to all that frequent this thread I have held my tongue of insulting remarks regarding most issues in here out of respect for both sides of the isle. In the following days I will be content with whatever my country has decided, but as for tonight, I am upset, and if you have noticed, I have not attacked anyone persay. But I am upset that the man I voted for lost. As a right of passage in this great country, and because I voted, I have the right to whine like some others in this thread are accusing me of. It has not been blatant attacks at anyone singular in here, it is only due to the circumstance that has followed the election tonight. That being said, no one present in this thread should take personal offense to their stature in this thread as my remarks are not directed personally to members.





    in other words I am blowing off several weeks of PG rated steam. And frankly tomorrow I will be happy it is over and the damn tv ads will have ceased.
  13. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Well, Mr44, that, and Brian Williams showed the polls saying that PDiddy's "Vote or Die" didn't even do that much good when you compare turnout of 18-29s from 2000.
  14. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    I must admit I was worried about the so called "youth vote". Even though they are not as liberal as they used to be I thought they were still pretty liberal. Even I was more liberal in highschool and early college than I am now.
  15. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    The fact that youth turnout didn't even increase from 2000 is one of the things that makes me most sad. After all the effort that was made to push young voters to the polls (including a few weekends that I spent volunteering in Ohio trying to get every college kid I encountered registered to vote), apathy still won out in the end. That makes me really sad.

    If the new voters didn't go Democratic, what demographic exactly were they from? Blacks and young people will usually favor Democrats, stereotypes aside, because the Democrats have historically been more likely to appeal to their interests. Blacks apparently still voted up to 90% Democratic in some places this year. Were these other people primarily "security moms" who voted for Bush because they felt he would keep their kids safer?
  16. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah, I find myself feeling like I'm in Hollywood as a Conservative youth--there just didn't seem to be many of them.

    I guess I was proven to be worrying over nothing.
  17. MoonTheLoon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    star 4
    It looks like Bush's margin of victory is close if not higher than the number of provisional ballots. Under Ohio law, if the m.o.v. is higher than the number of provisional ballots, the provisionals are not counted.
  18. somethingfamiliar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 5
    African-American majority. Those people vote 90% Democrats

    Heh. That's not even a lock anymore due to the erosion of support to the left from black churches over the issue of gay marriage.

    I think what we on the left have to take away from this fact (and the big evangelical vote that turned out for Bush today) is that we need to do something about the church-going communities in this country if we're going to win elections.

    I hope we can offer a more solid opposition and alternative to the right on all the other issues instead of curtailing our value of social freedoms.
  19. liberalmaverick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 3
    I don't think it's over yet.

    President Bush hasn't won 270 yet, and there are a number of disputed votes in Ohio that could amount to 250 000 votes - enough to tip the scales from Bush to Senator Kerry.

    Plus, in a number of states - Nevada, New Mexico, and the upper Midwest, as well as New Hampshire - the race is too close to call.
  20. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    DLM demographics are showing over 40% of hispanic voters voted for President Bush.

    And the Provisionals ballots are going to get counted in Ohio, even if not strictly required by law.
  21. Darth Rayder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 4
    Its not exactly true that youth voting didn't increase. Percentage-wise, it didn't. But, turnout is being estimated at 120 million or so...I think we had about 100 million in 2000. This means that there were 2.6 million more youth voters this year than in 2000. That's a fairly healthy increase. The PROBLEM is, older people voted in droves too.
  22. Darth Rayder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 4
    Also, latest numbers I'm hearing is Bush up in Ohio by about 140k, and only 90-100k provisional ballots turned in...even if Kerry wins every single provisional ballot, he still loses by 40-50k votes. Nowhere near what we had in Florida last time. I'm willing to admit that its not quite over yet, but the fat lady is on her way to the stage. :)
  23. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Heh. That's not even a lock anymore due to the erosion of support to the left from black churches over the issue of gay marriage.

    I think what we on the left have to take away from this fact (and the big evangelical vote that turned out for Bush today) is that we need to do something about the church-going communities in this country if we're going to win elections


    I think this is a valid concern.

    Now, this isn't the thread to discuss the specific issues, but, for example, do people realize that all 11 states that had constitutional amendments limiting same sex marriage, passed their amendments, some as high as 6 to 1?

    This is similiar to what happened in Australia.

    A great deal of commentators indicate that it was the side issues that helped Bush most of all.

    The news radio station here in Chicago, "Newsradio 78" had an interesting observation. They found that a lot of people voted today based on what they called "concerns for the moral direction of the country."

    Before the election, this issue was largely overshadowed by discussion of Iraq and the economy.

    However, what the program found was that a good deal of people consider Iraq to be temporary, and long term direction is more important.

    I don't know if this means America will be more or less divided during the upcoming years, but this election certainly defied both conventional polling and party assumptions.

    Is it a temporary backlash, or an illustration of a larger shift?
  24. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    I respect you as well, Lord_Darth_Vader. :)

    I just hope that we can all come to realize that both sides have good ideas and put aside our own egos and work together in this great country of ours.

    I understand the pain that my Democratic friends here are experencing, and I want to sincerely offer my sympathy.

    However, there is no shame in defeat. If you believe in something, don't get discouraged, but try to work on compromise with the other side as to how things can best get done.

    It is my sincere hope that the GOP, now in solid command of our government, can reach out to the Democrats in this country and compromise with them on important issues. I think the GOP needs to include Democratic ideas into a general policy and heal this country.
  25. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Well said, DM.

    But you're out $40.00 now, correct? (or did you hedge your bets and break even, I forget... :) )
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