Official 9-11 Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by KnightWriter, Jul 21, 2002.

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  1. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    "That is because it is not true."

    Denial, such a sweet thing. I'll get proof for ya soon enough.

    "Bad choice on our part, I'll admit that."

    "Would it be worse for the entire country of Iraq and all of its citizens to be slaughtered by Iran and see the creation of an even larger Iranian presence in that region? And let us not forget who supplied the Iranians with training and weaponry."

    Two wrongs never make a right.

    "Oh, but that is right, communism good, capitalism bad."

    Yeah, i forgot. Communism is EVIIIIIIILLLLLL. It is our job to kill all supporters of Communism, to fight them at ever corner, and to make sure no one harbours any Communist opinions.


    "And the number is around 150,000 at the most liberal manipulation of the casualties."

    Wow, that makes it ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL better!

    "Ah, once again, the evil United States involves itself in fighting communism,"

    Damn those pesky Communists!!

    "when everyone knows communism is a perfect system. How dare they fight against that!"

    Why make it your buisness to fight against a political system in a completely different country? No good was accomplished from America's involvment in Vietnam.

    "By the way, the estimate is around 4,000. Most killed in the crossfire."

    God bless American propeganda!

    "How is Cuba?s embargo affecting the way of life for Castro? Same with Iraq. He still is one of the biggest exporters of oil, how does he do it? And why are his people still suffering if he has so much money?"

    Schools can't even get lead for their pencils. The embargo doesn't harm Saddam Husain, but the people of Iraq.

    "PPOR"


    I agree, PPOR, but I know you will just say you don?t need to do so, as the email you have quoted here speaks for itself."

    Give me a little while. Even if i find a whole tone of proof, you'll still find some strange way to justify it.
  2. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Perhaps Maveric and what has that to do with this discussion?
  3. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    "Has anyone noticed that Pingonedown sounds suspiciously like KaineDaimo?


    A sock perhaps?"

    OH MY GOD!! Two guys that disagree with the American government??? Can it be???
  4. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    "That is because it is not true."

    Denial, such a sweet thing. I'll get proof for ya soon enough.

    That will definitely be a first.

    "Bad choice on our part, I'll admit that."

    "Would it be worse for the entire country of Iraq and all of its citizens to be slaughtered by Iran and see the creation of an even larger Iranian presence in that region? And let us not forget who supplied the Iranians with training and weaponry."

    Two wrongs never make a right.

    So what you are saying is we should not have involved ourselves in helping a nation defend itself from an attack?

    "Oh, but that is right, communism good, capitalism bad."

    Yeah, i forgot. Communism is EVIIIIIIILLLLLL. It is our job to kill all supporters of Communism, to fight them at ever corner, and to make sure no one harbours any Communist opinions.

    No, your welcome to have communist opinions, your welcome spout them, but when you force that lifestyle on people, then we are going to have a problem with it.


    "And the number is around 150,000 at the most liberal manipulation of the casualties."

    Wow, that makes it ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL better!


    I did not say that it made it all better, but there is a far cry from the drivel that you post as intellectual thought, although I shudder to even contemplate it as that, than what the actual numbers show. The statement wasn't directed at trying to trivialize the action, but at your absurd attempt to pass off utter nonsense as fact.

    "Ah, once again, the evil United States involves itself in fighting communism,"

    Damn those pesky Communists!!


    Yes, how dare they kill over 100 million people in order to promote their way of life!

    "when everyone knows communism is a perfect system. How dare they fight against that!"

    Why make it your buisness to fight against a political system in a completely different country?
    When it is shoved on a people too powerless to prevent it from occurring it is our business.

    No good was accomplished from America's involvment in Vietnam. Agreed.

    "By the way, the estimate is around 4,000. Most killed in the crossfire."

    God bless American propeganda!

    There is a significant difference between 4,000 and the 20,000 your email stated. It has nothing to do with propaganda.

    "How is Cuba?s embargo affecting the way of life for Castro? Same with Iraq. He still is one of the biggest exporters of oil, how does he do it? And why are his people still suffering if he has so much money?"

    Schools can't even get lead for their pencils. The embargo doesn't harm Saddam Husain, but the people of Iraq.


    I'm sorry, I thought that Saddam was the government. Am I mistaken? I thought that we was the leader of that nation. Is he not? Pray tell me then, who is it that is refusing to allow UN, UN mind you, not US, weapon inspectors to see whether he has WOMD? If he complied, would things be better? Sure.

    "PPOR"


    I agree, PPOR, but I know you will just say you don?t need to do so, as the email you have quoted here speaks for itself."

    Give me a little while. Even if i find a whole tone of proof, you'll still find some strange way to justify it.
    No, if you can find a credible source that answers ONE of these ludicrous statements, I will concede the point. I do not think you will though.
  5. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    "Has anyone noticed that Pingonedown sounds suspiciously like KaineDaimo?


    A sock perhaps?"

    OH MY GOD!! Two guys that disagree with the American government??? Can it be???


    No, two people who like to post emails and thoughts that they did not write, or compose themselves.
  6. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    [link]http://www.socialistworker.org/2002-1/389/389_05_IraqNext.shtml[/link]

    Some proof, sir.
  7. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    "And the number is around 150,000 at the most liberal manipulation of the casualties."

    The Supreme Allied Headquarters reported that 129,558 people were killed, injured, or missing and a further 176,987 made homeless by the bombing in Hiroshima and in Nagasaki: 66,000 people were killed or injured

    total: 195.558 people killed, injured or missing

    affected: 372.545 + others by radiation...

    Those are the numbers...
  8. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Iraq Oil production

    Oil prices

    Iraq generated in 2001 2.0 Million barrels of oil per day. At 2001 prices of $22.70 per barrel, I would think Iraq could have enough money to feed it's citizens. How about you?

    So you don't have to do the math that's $45,000,000 per day or $16,500,000,000 per year, rounding down of course.
  9. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    KD
    I am sure you will say that this is my silly way of justifing my statement, but I almost fell out of my chair when I saw your source. I concede the point that you found a source that supports your statement.



    DB , the statement was made that 300,000 Japanese killed in Hiroshima
    > > > and
    > > > Nagasaki by the Atomic bombs dropped by the USA.
    > > >


    You provided the following:
    The Supreme Allied Headquarters reported that 129,558 people were killed, injured, or missing and a further 176,987 made homeless by the bombing in Hiroshima and in Nagasaki: 66,000 people were killed or injured

    total: 195.558 people killed, injured or missing

    affected: 372.545 + others by radiation...

    Those are the numbers...


    The statement was 300,000 killed by the bombs. Not those injured, not those left homeless, but killed. More than one source reports 150,000 as those killed by the bombs. I agree there were others injured by radiation, but the statement put forth states killed. Therefore, that is what I challenged.


  10. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    rounding down of course.

    you rounded it wrong it should be $1,66.10^10 :p

    Edit:

    You provided the following

    Maveric I provided with that source... ;)
  11. PingOneDown Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2002
    "Has anyone noticed that Pingonedown sounds suspiciously like KaineDaimo?

    I assure u I?m not him!! You should smell the guy?s feet!!! *SNIFF SNIFF* He?s my best friend!!

    ?No, two people who like to post emails and thoughts that they did not write, or compose themselves.?

    I believe i left one post, a letter from a little girl. The only topic I did not write myself!!!
  12. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Riku -
    As I see it, the word 'terrorism' refers to an act, which is made to a civilian target, during a war or during a peace, that is irrelative to this term.

    Actually, there is no one term or definition for terrorism. There never has been. The reason why is for exactly the same reason we even bothering to have this discussion. It is hard to define in terms of peace and warfare. To you, and I'm sure others, the atomic bombs dropped on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (in today's terms) are considered acts of terrorism. But for myself and many, many others, we see it as an act of war that saved millions of lives on both the Japanese and U.S. sides.

    And, what would you have done? Just curious ....

    I still can't remember USA giving aid for free.

    I find that to be a convient way of saying that you hear, learn, and remember only that which is either given to you or that which you wish to see, hear, learn, or remember. Try investigating the actions of the U.S. and several other countries. There aren't too many out there nowadays that do anything for "free."

    Darth_Omega -
    It was in fact 5 million Jews not 6 million. I've no idea where you get your facts from...

    I've found different numbers for the total number of people who died in WWII as well. What I have from my college summer class on Germany and Terrorism are: 5,820,960 Jews and somewhere around 5 million other people who were prosecuted by the Nazi's including homosexuals, people of various ethnic groups including gypsies, political rivals, communists, other religious organizations, those who helped hide prosecuted people or defended/fought against Nazi's, etc.

    Actually they dropped the bomb because US wanted that Japan surrendered to them instead of U.S.S.R.

    I'm sure that is one of many reasons why the U.S. dropped the bombs on Japan, however, if the U.S. had attempted a land invasion of Japan, the numbers of dead on both sides would've been worse as well as the amount of damage to property would've been enormous.

    KaineDamo -
    God, i'm so sick of the "U.S is the first and only democratic nation, U.S is the only place where everyone has freedom" bullcrap. Almost every European country fits into these categories too. I mean, are you trying to show how ignorant you can be????

    I'm quite positve that the person who said that knows full well that the U.S. is not the only democracy in the world and that we are not the only one's who answer the call of aid and assistance to various nations and people around the world. However, I think the reason why they said that or anything like that was that they were upset that so many people seem to be against U.S. citizens exhibiting pride in thier country. Let them feel pride if they wish too .... I'm sure others in different countries do as well. But instead of bashing them for their word usage and/or the way in which they express themselves, go ahead and simply 'correct' what they've said and bring to light (for all of us) factual information that proves that the U.S. isn't the only one's who can feel proud.

    Maveric -
    The US was not interested in a conditional surrender by Japan. We went into the war with the goal of defeating them and we did.

    Yes .... we did. Then we helped them to rebuild their country and helped to set-up a democractic form of government.

    And once again, for the umpteenth time, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were indeed, military targets. Hiroshima housed the Mitsubishi plant, which produced a considerable amount of Japan's war material and Nagasaki housed Japan's ship yards. Both, were military targets.

    Thank you for providing that information .... I had heard about that but did not want to mention it without actually having a book with facts in it in front of me. :)

    KaineDamo -
    If that was the real target, you would have sent in airplanes to take it out. There is no justification for Heroshema.

    That would not have ended the war in the Pacific! Why don't
  13. KitFist0 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    I just wanna say two things:

    Ah, once again, the evil United States involves itself in fighting communism, when everyone knows communism is a perfect system. How dare they fight against that!

    Every system is perfect on paper ;)

    Y'know, i predicted i was gonna get replies like that. I will make another post in a minute, but first of all all i have to say is: Never Forget!

    This is the same type of thing that makes in so that hate is passed on from genaration to genaration . . . [face_plain]
  14. Yodave27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2001
    star 4
    How does all this relate to 9-11? I think the war on terror should have its own thread (and I believe there is one..I'll look.), while the WWII discussion should be taken into that thread.
  15. Jedi_Icicle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 1
    Why is it that everytime someone disagrees with our governement we call him "Anti-american"???? I am getting tired of this whole fake patriotism! It takes more than waiving a flag to be an american. Have you forgoten that american was built on the concept of Fairness and Justice?? Well let me tell you that today most of our politicians have forgoten what fairness and justice are!! I am not saying that everything that America does is wrong....I think our nation have done great things... But that doesn't mean we mustn't also admit to the bad thing we have done and are currently doing! What makes us great is the fact that, WE, the American people can admit our wrong doing and try to correct it!
    What we have done in Europe and Normandy was great. The fact that we stopped Hitler was great. But I am not proud of the Atomic bomb we dropped on Japan! I am not proud of Vietnam! What a big waste of human lives Vietnam was!!! If the public wasn't complaining and pressuring the governement to stop, it would've lasted longer!
    Listen I don't like Saddam anymore than you do, but I am sick and tired of the double standard we impose on the world! Like I said before, there are many dictators and dangerous men in this world....but why concentrate mainly on Saddam?....OOOHH...yes..of course..I forgot...they have Oil...that makes all the difference..... Don't give me this crap about we're gonna get rid of Saddam for the good of humanity....we're doing it for economical and control reasons!!!
    If we cared about humanity we would try to solve the Palestinian-israeli conflict where people on both side have been suffering and dying for the past 50 years!
    If we cared about hummanity we would've tried to help those poor North Korean who are starving and oppressed by their government etc... The truth is most of our politicians can care less about all those people that are suffering and oppressed...they only act like it in the name of humanity when it's convenient! it's a great excuse to hide behind!
    I am not criticising the american people nor am I saying that our country ins't a great one, I am just saying that the people leading our country are corrupted and giving us a bad rep. What it's even worst is we have a lot of blind people who will believe anything they're told and anything they hear on TV. Believe it or not, there is a world beyond CNN and MSNBC...
  16. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Jedi_Icicle -
    I am getting tired of this whole fake patriotism! It takes more than waiving a flag to be an american.

    To a degree, I agree with you on that one - it does take more than waving a flag to be patriotic. But for some, that's all they may be able to do at one time or another. And I don't think that its so much about you talking bad about the U.S. government, nor anyone else for that matter, as much as it is the "timing" of some of the comments and the way in which they were stated.

    Many people want to express their feelings of pride in their country, regardless of what we've done in the past, what we're doing in the present, or what we'll probably do in the future. But no one's perfect, no government is perfect, no people are perfect. We are all simply trying to live life as best as we can, for ourselves and/or for others (in and/or out of our countries).

    Some of the comments were just looking at the negative side of the U.S. past and not looking at any of the good. AND many of the comments were counter attacks to those who expressed solidarity and pride in being a citizen of the U.S. Some were simply made to upset others and were really unnecessary or were mistated .... that's all.

    Have you forgoten that american was built on the concept of Fairness and Justice?? Well let me tell you that today most of our politicians have forgoten what fairness and justice are!!

    I totally agree with you on that one!!!!

    we're doing it for economical and control reasons!!!

    I agree with you on that one too. But EVERY nation does that - and what "that" is .... well, its this - they're out to get or gain something, one way or another, for their benefit or to increase their wealth, power, or influence. And that's all part of the history of the world.

    I am just saying that the people leading our country are corrupted and giving us a bad rep.

    That could be said about many, many, MANY world governments. Take a good look around. If you mention one, please be objective and mention others. And IF you look around, you'll find that there are many governments out there who are corrupt in one way or another or who act without thinking of the costs, etc.

    ***************************************

    I want to leave everyone with a few stories, the first is one that a friend of mine at work told me. Her father and mother were from Venezuela. My friend was born in the U.S., as was her sister. Her father got a job (at what I can't remember) and while he worked, he also took lessons in english and began his U.S. citizenship test. She said that she remembered that as a little girl, her father would talk to her about what he learned in his classes and was very excited when he finally took his Oath of Citizenship. For the rest of his life, he never missed the opportunity to vote, attended public meetings as often as possible, double checked his taxes and paid them on time, and carried, in either his shirt or jacket pocket, a copy of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. When he died, his family buried that same tattered and torn copy of the Constitution with him. He was so proud to not only be in the U.S., but to have the opportunity to become a part of what he considered a great nation, a country that was truly "free" and one where he could actively take part in what the government did. His daughter, my friend, is the same way and she thinks that it is so sad that there are so many people who were born and raised in this country who do not realize how great we have it here and how much we have to be grateful for.

    When I lived in Austin, TX I worked for JCPenney Catalog and took catalog orders from customers. Several years ago I got a call from a young woman who was really giving me a hard time about certain dresses that we had in the catalog. Finally, she decided on somekind of blue colored 2-piece suit dress, but then I had to tell her it might take an extra day or so to get to her local catalog desk. She became very frantic and said that she
  17. Jedi_Icicle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 1
    Hello Darthmom10,

    <<That could be said about many, many, MANY world governments>>

    I aggree with you, I don't deny that. I only mentioned America because many american believe we're perfect and above everyone else. I was just trying to make the point that we're just as bad when it comes to corrupted governement.

    <<But EVERY nation does that - and what "that" is .... well, its this - they're out to get or gain something, one way or another, for their benefit or to increase their wealth, power, or influence. >>

    I aggree on this too...just like before, this comment was directed to the people who believe we do no wrong...and believe that we do things ONLY for the better of humanity! I never said that no one else does it. I am saying I can't believe people actually believe that our government does this out of the goodness of its heart.

    I wasn't attacking anyone nor was I trying to "hurt" people with my comments. I was just stating facts that we tend to "easily" forget and point the finger at others... sometime you have to look at "the man in the mirror".... you can't forget the past...as you must learn from your mistakes!

    peace and love!

    M
  18. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    568,103 people killed in the bombings of Hiroshima and in Nagasaki

    uhm no...

    total: 195.558 people killed, injured or missing

    195.558 people are killed injured or missing

    affected: 372.545 + others by radiation...

    with affected I mean people who are killed, injured, missing and homeless. Those people are affected by the bomb... :p

    Okay, now tell us the total number of people, civilian and military that Japan killed during its expansion in the Pacific and its war against the U.S.

    It takes time to search, I will try to find the figures...

    5,820,960 Jews and somewhere around 5 million other people who were prosecuted

    I dunno about homosexuals etc. But what I read 5.8 million Jews were deported to concentration camps and 5 million were killed (meaning around 800.000 survived), maybe I read it wrong, I'm going to recheck it later this day

    Why is it that everytime someone disagrees with our governement we call him "Anti-american"????

    Because of the speech "if you're not with us you're against us"...
  19. Jedi_Icicle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 1
    Because of the speech "if you're not with us you're against us"...

    yeah...that sounds like something really good to represent freedom of thoughts.... Like I said earlier, that moron Bush has the policy of "my way or the highway"...that's nice....
  20. Southernjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 4
    Good News!!
    According to Reuters, a major mastermind of the attacks has been captured in Pakistan. Now to extradite and wring him dry of info.

    story here
  21. ImperialFC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    In terms of Iraqi civilian casualties:

    UWYO: Gulf War Exhibit

    "In spite of its brevity the war was not without loss. Estimated Iraqi military deaths range from 8000 to 100,000 while the Coalition lost about 300 troops. The number of civilian casualties is unknown"

    The Atlantic

    "Moreover, and more incredibly, air power delivered this wildly lopsided victory in a fairly humane fashion. Estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths owing to bombing are still a matter of debate, but there is no question that, considering the huge number of bombs that were dropped, not that many noncombatants were killed."

    History Guy

    "Iraq: Original figures listed 100,000 Iraqi military dead, but more recent estimates place Iraqi dead at 20,000 military and 2,300 civilian."


    CNN: Gulf War


    "In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action. According to Baghdad, civilian casualties numbered more than 35,000. However, since the war, some scholars have concluded that the number of Iraqi soldiers who were killed was significantly less than initially reported."


    PBS Frontline: Gulf War

    "Independent analysts generally agree the Iraqi death toll was well below initial post-war estimates. In the immediate aftermath of the war, these estimates ranged as high as 100,000 Iraqi troops killed and 300,000 wounded.

    According to "Gulf War Air Power Survey" by Thomas A. Keaney and Eliot A. Cohen, (a report commissioned by the U.S. Air Force; 1993-ISBN 0-16-041950-6), there were an estimated 10-12,000 Iraqi combat deaths in the air campaign and as many as 10,000 casualties in the ground war. This analysis is based on enemy prisoner of war reports.

    The Iraqi government says 2,300 civilians died during the air campaign."


    So, as these sources show the civilian casualty count ranges from "unknown", to "2,300", to an estimated 2,300 and 35,000+ from the Iraqi's themselves. So, during the airwar there is a range of 2,300-35,000 (and remember the Iraqi's would want to inflate this number as high as possible to make the US look bad), which is not even close to the 130,000 civilians that were supposedly murdered on the order of Bush the elder.

    Lastly, on the idea that Coaltion killed 18,000 people in Baghdad during the Gulf War, a report that is critical of the US from Human Rights Watch states:

    Human Rights Watch

    "The bombing of the air raid shelter in the residential Ameriyya quarter of western Baghdad took place at approximately 4:30 am on February 13, killing between 200 and 300 civilians, according to various Iraqi reports -- the highest reported death toll from a single allied attack during the entire air war."

    So, according to Human Rights Watch the highest death toll for an attack by the Coalition air forces was 200-300 civilians and not the "18,000" number that Americans supposedly "forget" about (and yes I do feel it was grevious mistake on the part of Coalition forces, although it was clearly not deliberate)


    Was the Gulf War as "clean" as perhaps the Coalition wanted it to look? Probably not, but the number of civilian casualties was no where near the highly inflated number of casualties that was quoted in the e-mail, and these casualties were not deliberatly committed.
  22. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    I would have created a thread called: 9/11: Is there a god? but this thread will do.

    Have you ever noticed how many times people during the attacks referenced god? How they prayed for things to be alright? And even in the aftermath, people would sing God Bless America.... now there is nothing wrong with this, but the truth is, maybe god, if there is a god, wasn't there at all... why would God Bless America after the attacks and not before?

    I hate god.
  23. Jedi_Icicle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 1
    That's a very interesting point CarbonKnight.
    I don't think god has anything to do with this whole terrorist thing...as matter of fact God probably has nothing to do with most of the stuff that happens here on earth. God won't bless America anymore than he will bless Afghanistan!
    But I think people turn to God because an event like 9-11 is so horrible and so mind boggling that it's hard to understand....and thus you need to turn to a higher power when you see things that can't be explained...it makes us humans feel better to believe that there is someone who values us and loves us.
    Wether God exist or not is an ongoing debate that will most likely never end... after all humans have believed in some kind of God or higher being since the dawn of times...
  24. ImperialFC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    One could make the point that since God gave us free will, it means that he for the most part is a "hands off" type of diety (well, I'll leave aside the Old Testament plagues and fire and brimstone ;)). If someone chooses to do an evil act of their own free will, I think there really isn't anything God can do. Sure He can throw down a lightning bolt and off the criminal, but that would mean He would have to intercede in every little dispute, crime, and war going on in the world. Also, people ask "Where was God?" when a natural disaster hits. They have to understand that short of act of God :), the weather system will always be chaotic and the absence or presence of God has nothing to do with a tornado that destroys property and injures or kills people.

    Awful things happen, but wonderful and beautiful things happen as well. If you look at the 9-11 attacks, the act itself was a horrible thing, but what happened after the attack was a testament to human kindness. Millions of people gave blood, money, supplies, volunteered, and helped out in other ways as well. The US was about as united as I have ever seen it, and probably will never be as united again.
  25. PadmeJainasolo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2002
    star 2
    Well after 9/11 I have noticed that some people (not all people!) have been mean to muslims.

    I mean at my school there is this muslim girl and all the gyes started to pick on her after 9/11.

    I felt sorry for her because It's not like an 12 year old girl had anything to do with 9/11.


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