**OFFICIAL** Attack Of The Clones Score Discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Sithman, Mar 18, 2002.

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  1. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    There's been a lot of talk about how the tracks on this soundtrack don't sound edited. I put this together to show how the tracks could very well have been edited and we wouldn't be the wiser.

    For the admins, this is an edit of AOTC music that is not heard on the soundtrack. This is the equivalent of a mega trailer made up of footage from the various trailers; like the Across the Stars music video, this is a combination of several cues from the soundtrack, edited together to form what is, hopefully, one seamless whole.
  2. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Well that's just it, people. GOOD edits don't SOUND like edits. They are seamless and unnoticeable. I guarantee this CD is edited. Heavily. They ALWAYS are with Williams.

  3. Antilles58 TFNInteractive Games Programmer

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2000
    star 3
    Good edit dehrian

    But back to my own topic, I am 100% convinced that Across the Stars is little more than a variation of the main star wars theme. I know this has been discussed somewhere before, but I want to share my opinion and this seemed like the best board to do so. Every time i listen to it i can't help but feel the high note followed by descending triplet back to a high note and down again of the main theme. ATS is just a much more melodic version of that. It even has a middle section that is much softer and has a lot of ups and downs as well. People have also mentioned ATS resembling anakin's theme, leia's theme, etc... and since the main theme is technically luke's theme, I'm starting to think Across the stars, though mostly a variation on the main star wars theme, is sort of a skywalker medley...
  4. Jedi_Johnson Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 5
    Track 13 Confontation with Count Dooku and Finale is incredible.

    ******POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW***********
    ******READ AT YOUR OWN RISK*************

    I don't know if this is a spoiler, but isn;t it a little ominous that this track breaks into the Imperial march? Maybe this hints at the beginnings of Vader. I don't know, but this track is absolutly UNBELIEVABLE!!! John Williams is the greatest!!!!!!
  5. Miz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2001
    star 2
    I'm not so sure. Maybe the hype dampened my appreciation, but I don't think so. Let's see what we have on track 13:

    * Nice start, good Force theme...
    * Harry Potter. It sounds just the same as most of that score...
    * Nice Imperial March, well chosen keys, but not all that new..
    * Well joined to the Love theme, which isn't new, because I might as well be listening to track 2...
    * Cleverly bridged to fanfare, which I've heard before...
    * Abruptly delved into Love theme. Not bridged as well as in the OT (especially ESB)
    * Again, track 2...
    * Very clever ending. Peaceful, melodic. The slow Imperial March reprise makes up for that Darth Vader breathing heard at the end of Episode I...


    * In conclusion, a below average track, in my opinion.
  6. grand_admiral_ewok Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    You're too kind, Miz.

    I think Track 13 is excellent.
  7. pianoman02045 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 1
    For all you music freaks out there i found an interesting comparison. ATS sorta is like the FOrce theme. Now let me say y. it starts on a C (i think) and goes to A Flat. then F then Bflat Aflat and g and f aflat g f eflat etc...... Any ways notice how the force theme (particularly in The Throne Room sheet music) the force theme starts a C f g aflat bflat f c c f g etc..... now that may be to technical for some people but if u kinda listen to it and listen for the the force theme it maybe possible thats where it comes from, now im not going to read any posts in here cause im afraid of spoilers but i thought it might be a spoiler so i put it in here with out reading anything. if u like the idea pm me
  8. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
  9. Miz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2001
    star 2
    So?

    He's combined the main theme (which many dub 'The Skywalker Theme', and the Force Theme, which are the two most powerful motifs in the series (save perhaps the Imperial March).

    These themes have apparently been blended melodically and succesfully to concieve a theme that serves its purpose extremely well, purveying the emotions and complexities of the plot in an almost perfect manner. The fact that the theme isn't entirely original is not a problem, considering that when you think about it, every Star Wars theme is drawn (in some way or another) from those created in the very first film.

    It's a brilliant theme, so why disect it and try to give its parts back to its predecessors?
  10. RidingMyCarousel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Just curious and all, but can we discuss how the AOTC Movie ties in with the soundtrack here? I don't want everyone going balistic on me if I did... it does say "spoiler" in the title, but still...
  11. MoffJake Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2001
    star 4
    Well, the movie is out. If ever there was a time to start discussing it, this is it! :)
  12. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    Too much of copied and pasted TPM music. I don't mind using themes from it - the Trade Federation theme when the Clones are boarding the ships on Kamino and DOTF when Anakin races on Tatooine are awesome, but you can see that they're not the same as in TPM. But in the arena battle and when Anakin and Padme go to Geonosis and some other scenes I can't remember right now, some music was literally copy and paste from TPM (I recognized the music from the Naboo battle, the music when the Republic cruiser docks with the Trade Federation ship...). Oh well.
  13. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Yup, there's a whole thread on that.


    BTW, I think we should close this thread since AOTC's out. We don't need a "General Discussion" thread anymore, because we can analyze the the movie with the soundtrack more.
  14. snoogans78 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    OK Anakin is featured in most of the film. The "imperial march" pops up ONCE when he's on screen. ONCE!! What is up with that. The clone troopers come up and the IM theme is blaring. Focus in on palpatine looking down at the troopers, IM theme is blaring. That's Darth's Theme! Shouldn't it pop up more when anakin's on screen?
  15. Imrahil2001 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    No, the IM is the _Imperial_ March. It's only Vader's theme secondarily.

    It was entirely appropriate that it was used where it was, at the birth of the Empire.

    Now...did anyone notice the screwup? Lucas edited in music of YODA'S THEME when Anakin was on the conveyor belt; this must be the same bit heard later in the Duel. WTF?! Is he screwing with Williams' score again? Christ, man, leave it alone!

  16. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    Well, two things. One, it's actually the Imperial Theme/Vader's Theme, so it applies to both the Empire and Vader. Two, Anakin's not actually Vader yet, so it applies more to the burgeoning Empire than to Anakin at this point.
  17. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    lol, the guy's complaining that the *Imperial* March is being used to symbolize the Empire, not Vader.


    ...I must of have missed something here...
  18. Imrahil2001 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    Well, on the original Empire soundtrack, it is called "The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme)," not "The Imperial Theme."

    (/nitpick)
    Ims
  19. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    BTW, does anyone what the Kamino/Clone Theme is? Is it played on Track 12 a lot? Is that the one I'm thinking of?
  20. Imrahil2001 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    The Kamino theme is the one that's sort of the undulating theme. It starts about 3 minutes into the "Main Titles" track. Think big rolling waves and that's what the theme sounds like.

    's purty cool.

    Ims
  21. Fat_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2001
    star 4
    I've seen the movie twice, and I noticed a few scenes/moments that REALLY needed a climax to the score.....but they got none.

    Perhaps I was too amazed by the visuals to pay any attention to some of the music in certain scenes, but here are the parts of the movie where the music NEEDS a good kick in the crotch:

    !!!!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!!




    1. Jango Fett's decapitation.

    2. Anakin losing his arm. When Luke loses his hand to Vader, the music reaches a climax....why is there no climax here, especially when Anakin loses his WHOLE FREAKIN' FORE-ARM?

    3. The whole arena battle needs SOME music....I mean, the LEAST GL could have done was slap in some more TPM music.....grrr.....

    4. The re-usage of "Zam the Assassin" during the last 45 minutes of the movie. There is no speeder chasing going on, George!



    GOOD uses of the score:

    1. The violin going crazy when Anakin just loses it.

    2. The Force Theme and DOTF when Anakin goes to rescue Shmi.

    3. Yoda's Theme when he lifts up the crane.

    4. (Best use of music in the movie) The Emperor's Theme and the Imperial March playing boldly while Anakin confesses to Padme about the Tusken slaughter (and scares the crap out of me).

    5. Building the Love theme to a climax when Anakin kisses Padme, then cutting it off abruptly as Padme turns away from Anakin....priceless!



    Please post any more scenes you can think of, reactions, etc.
  22. pianoman02045 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 1
    Very good anylsis (can't spell well) anyways.....

    Another thing is that one part there was a really bad music edit. it was painful to listen too. i dont quite remeber where it was though. maybe some where where their in the ship to Naboo. But im gonna see it again this weekend and i'll re post again
  23. Debo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2001
    star 5
    There's a very good and interesting piece at JWFan.net about the complete cue list. For your convenience, I'll cut and paste it here, but be sure to check out the site for more later on.

    Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones: "Scene by Scene" Score Breakdown

    By John Takis


    Main Title (1:41) * Track 1 [0:00-1:41]
    On the CD (and probably in the film) this is the same recording used for The Phantom Menace, right down to the opening post-title strains, which flow into ...

    Ambush on Coruscant (2:32) * Unreleased (OST Track 1 is mislabeled)
    A dark mysterioso passage underscores the Naboo flight's passage through the clouds of Coruscant and continues through the assassination scene with some tragic horn writing. There is an unsettling transition to ...

    The Councils Confer (2:47) * Unreleased
    More mysterioso strings as Palpatine confers with the Jedi Council regarding the Separatists. We hear the first statement of the galactic CONFLICT THEME, a dark seven-note figure and variations. Hints of the main title theme usher in the Loyalist Committee, followed by a lighter interlude as Yoda talks to Padmé. The conflict theme returns as they bring up Count Dooku. A passage foreshadowing the LOVE THEME follows, as we cut to ...

    Old Friends (2:01) * Unreleased
    Obi-Wan and Anakin arrive at Padmé's quarters, where they reunite with Jar-Jar. The music is in the whimsical vein of Phantom Menace's lighter moments, and while Jar-Jar's theme is absent, there's a nice quote of Anakin's theme for his opening dialogue with Padmé, just before the music fades out.

    Unrequited Love (0:52) * Unreleased
    This brief passage includes a suggestion of the LOVE THEME B-SECTION as Anakin bemoans Padmé's standoffishness. Cut to:

    Jango and Zam (0:25) * Unreleased
    Percussion and muted trumpets as Jango gives Zam her assignment. Cut back to:

    Setting a Trap (0:57) * Unreleased
    Atmospheric strings underscore Obi-Wan and Anakin arguing about using Padmé as bait.

    Zam the Assassin and The Chase Through Coruscant (15:07) * Track 3 * Partially Unreleased
    This powerhouse cue is one of the film's major setpieces. And it's a mess to sort out, the first real victim of post-production editing. A few minutes of original music are unreleased: some tender music recalling Shmi as Aniken confides his dreams to his master, the slithery accompaniment to the centipedes invading Padmé's room, and later a brief bit where Zam shoots Obi-Wan down then hops on her speeder. Later in the chase, music is tracked and repeated, and the electric guitar that featured so prominently on the album is removed. Ultimately, a portion of Track 3 [4:20-5:25] on the OST didn't make the final cut. Fortunately, the album experience of this cue remains thrilling and dynamic ... some of Williams' most inventive action-writing. The cue slows down towards the end (without losing tension), culminating with Zam's death and the transition to the Jedi Council. A quote of the conflict theme may have been tracked in for Jango Fett's brief appearance.

    CUE BREAKDOWN:
    Track 3 [0:00-0:25]
    Unreleased [1:19] (Anakin's bad dreams; centipedes slip in)
    Track 3 [0:26-2:32]
    Unreleased [0:09] (Obi-Wan is hit; Zam takes off)
    Track 3 [2:33-4:20] (no guitar)
    Track 3 [1:29-2:17]
    No Music [0:04] (Zam in the tunnel)
    Track 3 [3:43-3:54]
    Track 3 [5:26-10:16]
    Unreleased [00:25] (conflict theme -- might be tracked from "The Councils Confer")
    Track 3 [10:17-end]

    The Greatest of all Jedi (1:41) * Unreleased
    A dark passage with vague hints of the theme for Darth Sidious and the Dark Side, as the future Emperor counsels his future apprentice. This is followed by atmospheric scoring as Obi-Wan shares his concerns about Anakin with Yoda and Mace Windu.

    Growing Up (2:37) * Unreleased
    The first 14 seconds of this cue are tracked from Track 10 [0:23-0:37] More subtle atmospheric music for Anakin talking with Padmé about Obi-Wan. Here Williams introduces the first formal presentation of the love theme, as an oboe
  24. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Whoa, what's that all about? It almost seems like a UE CD..... Yuuuuuuuuuummmmmy. :D
  25. Debo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2001
    star 5
    The finished version is up now. Splendid! Check it out.
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