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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series *Official* Clone Wars Continuity & Canon Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by flashbang, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Lucas himself doesn't really need to consult those sources, since he's not writing these projects. It's the people he delegates that task to (or the people supervising the people he delegates those tasks to) who would be nice to consult such sources (and, as I understand it, would likely be the scenario for many of those working on these projects).
     
  2. JediLight

    JediLight Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    I thought this was interesting and discussion worthy. According to Lucas, the Clone Wars and Live Action Series belong to him and are consisent with his movies. His comments make the TV shows = the movies.

    "Now these three different pillars [himself, Lucas Licensing, fans] don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are under my control and they are consistent within themselves"

    An another interesting side note:

    "There will be definitely be no Episode 7-9. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

    Link

    Edit #1 - added link, Edit #2 - fixed typo
     
  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    That's a fascinating interview there! It appears Lucas is referring specifically to sequel films and restating his stance that he has no story for them and that that is the end of the film story- but this is the first time he's implied that the existence of the "amazing universe" covering that post-ROTJ timespan also factors into the lack of sequel films (though at the same time I can't help but be confused over his comment regarding the lack of cloning Palpatine, when it was he, in fact, who suggested it in the first place [face_thinking] Not to mention how his development of Sidious' motivations in ROTS seemed to track towards similar notions of immortality).

    Lucas's simplified explanation for what is consistent with each other is both slightly confusing and reaffirming at the same time- his corner of the universe has been the story of the SW films, and he's striving to keep the new shows consistent with them; yet at the same time we know the TV shows are striving to be consistent with the other EU products, so there's a somewhat unique amount of overlap that sorta daisy-chains everything together. [:D]

    Great find!
     
  4. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 1999
    Was it? The Palpatine clone was done in Dark Empire, which two fans had sort of developed independently for Marvel in 1989, and then Dark Horse kind of just inherited it. I never thought Lucas had any input into it.
     
  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Dark Empire was a project in the works for Marvel and DHC eventually acquired it, but Lucasfilm had a few changes made to it since it was originally set just after ROTJ and Tim Zahn didn't want to reference it in his novel, so they adjusted it to be set after the Thrawn trilogy and reference it. A bigger change was DE originally featured a clone of Vader- but Lucas himself nixed that and instead suggested they clone Palpatine instead.

    Oddly enough, due to that change, DE ended up, on a thematic level, actually being pretty darn close to what Lucas was planning for the sequel trilogy prior to changing the outlines with ROTJ (ie: Luke uniting with his sister to confront the Emperor, trying to defeat the darkside from within, etc). It's been speculated (especially after the serendipitous alignments regarding Sidious) that those similarities are one reason why Lucas liked DE so much (at least initially ;) )- he even gave copies out to all his employees as a christmas gift that year (how come my bossses never do anything cool like that? ;) ).
     
  6. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 4, 1999
    Thats very interesting indeed. You wouldn't have a source that explains Lucas altering the whole clone thing do you?
     
  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    I'll have to look around, it's been a very long time. Though I suspect that info probably came from Tom Veitch online or in an interview long ago or one of the old letter columns.

    EDI-T Aha, I may be slightly off- Lucas did approve the idea at the very least, but the phrasing in these two interview clips suggest Veitch and co suggested the idea for approval and alternatively that Lucas gave them the idea:

    http://www.jazmaonline.com/interviews/interviews2007.asp?intID=432

    RV: What did you find most enjoyable about writing Star Wars comics?

    Tom Veitch: I loved that George Lucas gave us "carte blanche" to think up new ideas and stories. The first idea we gave him (this was back in 1989, you understand) was that the Empire had preserved Vader's costume or a duplicate of it, and that they would put somebody else inside it, so that "Darth Vader" could continue to inspire fear and obedience among the far-flung worlds of the Galaxy. George said "no" to that. Our second idea was that the Emperor should continue to live, through the process of cloning. George said "yes" to that.


    http://www.ugo.com/channels/comics/features/starwars/

    TV: We had great response. I still get letters from people telling me that Dark Empire was the best of the continuing stories, that it should be made into a movie, that it should be a novel, etc. George Lucas told me personally that he loved it. Some people had a problem with the bringing back of the emperor. But as I have explained elsewhere, we did that under George Lucas' direction. Originally we asked him if we could bring back Darth Vader, assuming that the empire would want to perpetuate the image of Vader in order to strike fear into the hearts of billions. So they would put somebody else inside the Vader costume, of course. But George nixed that and told us we could bring back the emperor.
     
  8. zombie

    zombie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 1999
    Awesome. Thanks!
     
  9. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Thanks to Quest for pointing me in the direction of this thread.

    As much as it seems counter-intuitive, I believe the CW animated film has to be considered canon. No matter what, over the years the only constant of what we all agreed was canon was the films. The books, comics, and TV shows/cartoons were all EU. Same thing with games, TCG, and CCG.

    So here we are with a feature length film, but it's animated. So what makes it EU? What makes it canon? It meets the criteria of being a film. But it doesn't meet the criteria of live action. My vote is it's canon. The EU reaches a smaller group of fans whereas films reach millions around the world.
     
  10. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, a month or two ago LFL did reveal that "T-Canon" material (CW 3D & the LA series) would be considered part of the same "pillar" of SW as the films, but still be ranked below the films.

    For clarification, Lucas has described the story of SW as being 3 pillars: his pillar is the films and TV, then the EU is the second while fan fiction (presumably referring to stuff like Troops, etc) takes up the third.

    The grey area, though, is that CW 3D will apparently be referencing EU material where possible, so while it's part of Lucas's pillar due to his awareness of the show's story, it's still not exactly separate from the greater SW continuity. This grey area perception is further supported by Lucas's past comments that "his story" and the EU overlap at times.

    Also, I don't think you can really leverage potential audience to determine canonicity- comics like Legacy or KOTOR reach a smaller audience than the novels or video games (usually), but that doesn't stop them from being among the most lauded SW material produced. Then again, neither should popularity be the sole basis either, since in less obvious cases than Legacy or KOTOR, opinions are more subjective.

    There's no clear-cut answer, unfortunately. It's a strange beast, Star Wars, but I wouldn't have it any other way ;)

     
  11. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jun 26, 2001
    Interesting that TV would be on the same line as the films. Cause boy, that needs clarification. You've got Droids and Ewoks cartoons. Then there's the two Ewok TV shows and, of course, The Holiday Special. Don't forget the two seasons of Clone Wars on Cartoon Network. And then there's the upcoming Live Action TV Series. So going by that, Life Day is canon!
     
  12. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Ah, they have clarified that T-canon is only the two new shows. Ewoks, Droids, Holiday Special, Ewok movies & Clone Wars GT are still C-Canon like the majority of the EU.

    Which blurs the lines even more since Clone Wars 3D seems to have a relationship with CWGT 8-}
     
  13. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jun 26, 2001
    Okay, so the CW seasons 1/2, CW film, and LA show are one tiny notch under the films. That's pretty helpful to know. What does the T stand for, BTW?
     
  14. swcolts157

    swcolts157 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jun 15, 2008
    No just the new cg show the GT CW is C-canon. T-canon is television canon. Leland Chee said this on the sw.com forum.
     
  15. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jun 26, 2001
    Gotcha. I haven't been to the OS' forums in forever. Basically when Hyperspace's coolness ended with the release of RotS, I stopped going.
     
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Pretty much what he said- only CW3D and LA series are T-canon currently. CW GT 1/2 is still C.

    The hierarchy definitions are:

    George Lucas G-Canon
    Television T-Canon
    Continuity C-Canon
    Secondary of S-Canon
    Non N-Canon
     
  17. darth_nemisis

    darth_nemisis Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 15, 2004
    This thread has been very helpful. I had always assumed that GT CW were classified as the same as the new ones.
     
  18. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jun 26, 2001
    So does George's direct involvement in this script and film bump it up to just below the films? I suppose the TV series was lower because he relinquished storylines to the other guy with the long name.
     
  19. JediLight

    JediLight Force Ghost star 4

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    May 31, 2001
    I suppose the TV series was lower because he relinquished storylines to the other guy with the long name.

    Yep, that makes sense Sapient. Since Clone Wars 3D is Lucas' story (unlike 2D), it elevates the canon status.

     
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, his more hands-on approach here is likely the motivating factor behind the classification.

    However, since he's not the actual showrunner, it falls below the films (or perhaps simply because they don't want anything but the films at the same level of the films).

    On the flipside, he also was heavily involved in the story for the Ewok movies, but they still remain C-canon; so his involvement in the writing or story process isn't a sole factor towards "automatic elevation". I rather suspect it's that factor combined with it dealing more directly with characters end events from or related to the story of the films that does it.
     
  21. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

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    Jun 26, 2001
    As a kid, when the Ewok TV movies were released, we were ALL talking about it at school for weeks. It was huge for us back then. I know a lot of adults had problems with the Ewoks and bringing the maturity level down of the franchise. As a kid at that time, it was awesome. So for as much as I hate Jar-Jar and his distraction of a performance, I bet kids loved him.
     
  22. SaberJedi2

    SaberJedi2 Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 5, 2007
    You are exactly right Sapient. I was talk to a few people at work recently who love Star Wars, all around 35-40 years old. They've told me they have trouble watching TPM because of Jar Jar, but WILL watch it because their kids, ages 7-10 think he's hilarious. My little 8 year old cousin was over my house just yesterday. He basically said the same thing, that he thought Jar Jar was "really funny."
     
  23. darth_nemisis

    darth_nemisis Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    May 15, 2004
    Yeah, when TPM came out, I was...9 or 10. I thought he was funny. Now, I am not too fond of him, but I can stand him. That could be because I liked him when I was younger.

    So, the whole maturity level of TPM must have worked at least a little bit.
     
  24. David_Skywalker01

    David_Skywalker01 Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 30, 2006
    If George works on a project its G-Canon, if he does not its EU.
     
  25. GrandAdmiral_Frank

    GrandAdmiral_Frank Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 26, 2003
    I say no because the Clone Wars cartoon and the EU are already mismatched. The holes in SW and the contradiction in SW will always remain there like with Tony Montana, he was full of holes and contradictions at the end and both are bad ass so I guess it works out.