Official D&D 4th edition Thread

Discussion in 'Games: RPG & Miniatures' started by darthmythos, Jan 11, 2008.

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  1. darthmythos Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2008
    I'm not too hip on the new 4th edition of D&D, so excuse me for my ignorance. I am pretty sure it will not be based on the d20 rules.


    Do you think the SW:RPG or any of the other d20 games will make the switch over to this new system?


    Also, they are bundling in software with the releases this year that is called "GameTable" I believe. It is supposed to work somewhat like OpenRPG or the other online pnp RPG programs, so that people can connect and find people to play with. Has anyone heard any more on this and do you think they will allow the use of the d20 rules in this as well? I ask this in hopes that the SW:RPG will work on it.
  2. Jedi_Master_Adara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 29, 2008
    star 1
    I really don't think they should have put out the new books for D&D, in their case change wasn't the best idea.
  3. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Moved here from Role Playing Resource in the RPF. :)

    -I_H
  4. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    You'd probably be better-served checking out some of the talk about 4E at ENWorld or Wizards. However, 4E is still a d20 game.
  5. CMR Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2002
    star 4
    and 4.0 rocks the cazbah.

    It takes on the talent trees (called paragon paths) and really allows for a lot more customization of your characters.
  6. inkpenavenger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2005
    star 1
    Indeed, 4E rocks the proverbial socks
    ...or...
    4E is the worst thing to happen since 3E

    Indeed 4E is still the d20 system
    ...or...
    WotC changed so much that it's not even D&D anymore

    It all depends on who you talk to, I guess. I for one love 4E.

    To answer the original question, no 4E will not change SWRPG. They just released Saga Edition, they're not changing it again already.

    Also, there is no "software bundle"
    GameTable is a JavaScript DMing tool available online (just Google "GameTable") but the one I prefer (it's like GT on speed) is MapTool from RPTools.net.
    The game table that Wizards is releasing is a SUBSCRIPTION ONLY feature on the D&D website. The entire D&D Insider suite was supposed to launch with the books, but you know Wizards, they never get things out on time. Once D&DI is online, you'll have to pay $15 each month to access its features which will include the aforementioned 3D online gametable, a character sheet-filler-outer program, a character model designer, and a search database of all the 4E rules.

    Yes, D&DI will cost more than a WoW subscription. Seems silly to pay so much to still do all the work yourself. That's why I endorse RPTools.net. Did I mention their programs are free?
  7. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    Unfortunately, no computer tools can be made by any company other that WoTC for 4th
  8. inkpenavenger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2005
    star 1
    No software can be sold for 4E other than by Wizards. But freeware is still free. I use the RPTools.net suite for my 4E campaign. All of their programs are highly customizable and can be adapted to virtually any RPG system. I use it for 4E and SE, but the tutorials online mention the Action system and the Hero system.
  9. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    I'll have to check it out then. The map tool and dice roller are fine, but I don't see how you could use that character thing with any rpg system

    also, as to the original post, no SW tabletop stuff unless WoTC makes it. There was an awesome character generator back before RCRB called Okina rdae and WoTC told the author told him to stop. Hasn't been anything since then
  10. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    You 3.5 guys could always check Pathfinder RPG, by Paizo. They just got Monte Cook and Sean K. Reynolds into their developement team.

    I'm getting my first 4E campaign ready. We'll see.
  11. Koohii Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    I have to go with several coments I've heard, based on my basic skim of the rules and attempts to build 2 characters:
    It's so different, it's barely even recognizable as the D&D that spawned it anymore.
    Looks like in abandoning the roots of D&D, they've cleaned up the illogical baggage of the previous systems.

    So, don't think of it as the same game. Consider it an entirely new game, and learn it that way.

    On the down side:
    Why do we need 3 species of elf? :rolleyes: :confused:
    No 1/2 orcs? :mad:
    No bard? :(

    On the upside:
    Warlord [face_dancing]
    Infernal Pact Warlock :D
  12. inkpenavenger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2005
    star 1
    Well, those three species of elf (4 if you count the Drow) have always been there, just not all in the PHB.

    Half Orcs never made sense to me. Half Orc, half human? How would that happen? Orcs hate every humanoid that isn't also an orc, so how would a human "hook up" with one? The only way a halforc could logically be concieved is via rape, and the offspring would probably be seen as an abbomination and be killed at birth. Unless you were making a campaign world in which orcs get along with other races, they simply don't make sense.

    As for the bard, I never liked bards in the first place. I too lament the absence of my favorite 3.5 class: the Monk, but according to WotC, more PHBs are going to come out that will include more of the old classes including psions, druids, barbarians, bards, monks, etc. In the meantime, you could run a bard-like character by multiclassing Warlord and Wizard/Warlock. Just change the asthetics.
  13. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    As opposed to the myriad variations of elf in 1st-3rd Ed? o_O
    Welcome to 2nd Edition :p


  14. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Welcome to D&D: World of Warcraft Edition.

    No thanks.
  15. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Sorry, but that horse has been flogged to death, clubbed, reanimated, flensed and then turned for good measure. World of Warcraft comparisons are really overplayed, and usually used by people who don't really have anything solid to base their hatred on, but they know that whatever this new system is, they don't like it. What exactly is it about this new system that you don't like any more?

    Those damn orcs, ruthless murdering war-mongers who hate everything that doesn't have the decency to be born like them. Rotton to the last, just like the drow.

    [image=http://www.nassaulibrary.org/centreblog/legacy_legendOfDrizzt.jpg]

    It's entirely possible to have orc/human relationships that aren't ugly. It's not as though they're tieflings, where someone in the family is quite literally made of evil. Not that it precludes any sort of affection between the couple in that pairing either.

    Seriously, it's like saying "humans think elves are jerks, elves think humans are fools, why on earth would there be half-elves?" It seems like it's using the whole "Always Chaotic Evil" thing, served up with a big helping of "Beauty = Goodness".
  16. inkpenavenger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2005
    star 1
    OK, so I forgot about Drizzt. Point taken. With a well-developed backstory involving a rare, heroic orc for a parent, I suppose a half-orc can be justified. You've given me an interesting campaign idea too, invovling said rare, heroic orc. Thanks.
  17. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    SW: RPG will definitely not switch to 4e, but it really is a lot like 4e already. I have some suspicions that they used Saga Edition almost like a test run, or, at the very least, they found that some things worked really well. As for the other d20 games, the license this time around isn't nearly as lenient, but obviously some WotC products will switch over (FR is releasing the 4e CS in August, for example).

    Regarding WotC's Game Table program, I personally don't think it's worth the cost, especially seeing as it's on top of a very large monetary commitment to begin with (Let's face it, we spend hundreds on DnD books), so I'll just stick with my freeware, thank you.
  18. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    Saga was a test bed for 4e concepts, they've admitted that
  19. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    Well, there you go then. Thanks!
  20. Koohii Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    I have one very vehement complaint about 4th Ed, one which has nothing whatsoever to do with game mechanics.

    Shoddy printing.

    No, I'm not refering to the art work.
    Rather, the combination of paper and ink that don't bind together well. Sure, the glossy paper is nice, but the ink doesn't bind well. Sweat smears it, as does any food oil or water. So no muchies while gaming if you want your books to say looking in good shape, and be in a room with good A/C. Given what most of the places I've been gaming are like, that's exactly the opposite of what the books should have been designed for.

    WotC should have known better.
  21. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    Yup, my DMG first page was glued to the inside cover, and a lot of the pages were sticking together. I had to exchange it. Now my MM looks like a few pages have gotten wet and dried, but I know for sure they didn't

    Anyways, I finally played 4th. It was really fun, in a different sorta way. It's great for pick-up or casual games, but for in-depth storytelling I'd stick with 3.5
  22. inkpenavenger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2005
    star 1
    The same thing happened to my Saga Edition core rulebook. Wierd...[face_thinking]
  23. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    You know, seems like every time someone doesn't like something in anything fantasy or rpg related, they compare it World of Warcraft.

    What is is really strange is that you'd think World of Warcraft would be awful going by these comparisons alone. Instead of being really fun and immensely popular.


    THe only exception I can think of is the WOW RPG and minis, which people complained were too DnD.
  24. HansHunkyChest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2003
    star 1
    I think it's pretty clear that many 4E D&D was influenced by Saga Edition SW, not the other way around. There's quite a few aspects of 4E that are taken directly from SE rules. For instance the new skills system in 4E. Like SE skills are either trained or untrained, you either get a +5 bonus or not. Paragon Paths are similar to talent trees; like talent trees it is easy to plug in new paths (trees) for prestige classes or just extra customization.

    While 4E has seen a certain amount of "WoWing" I don't think that is a bad thing on the whole. SE had a good deal of "KoToRing" compared to RCRB and it largely improved gameplay. One 4E rule I particularly like is Skill Challenge which is a series of skill checks. A challenge has a number of required successes and a number of allowed failures. If the character meets the required successes before they hit the failure limit they succeed at the challenge. I've started incorporating this mechanism into heavier role playing elements of SW games instead of a number of discrete skill checks. Fixing a hyperdrive or negotiating with an NPC makes for a good skill challenge, they're not instant successes but also not necessarily instant failures that a single skill check might suggest.
  25. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    SE was a test for 4ED, as was later books like Tome of Nine Swords. It's been explicitly stated by the WoTC authors back when 4th was announced.

    I think a better question would be if Saga was necessary at all, or if it was just pushed as a beta test for the better money-maker: D&D 4th

    Skill challenges seem odd at higher level, which I haven't played I admit. It scales with level, so at 10th level you are always picking 10th level locks. Suspension of disbelief, to be sure.
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