Animated Shorts Official Discussion - Clone Wars: Chapter 13 (Mace vs. Stompy, Part II) [Spoilers]

Hmmm...

Perhaps a Jedi's power is determined not only by how proficient they are in the Force but also how much the Force chooses to use them. It's like the Anakin Solo/Jacen Solo debate of the NJO as to whether the Jedi is using the Force as a tool or if the Force is using the Jedi. Given the dualism of Jedi philosophy it's probably a bit of both.

When a Jedi is open to the Force then s/he is given the power necessary in that situation to accomplish the Will of the Force. So when Mace loses his lightsaber and is surrounded by enemies, the Force gives him more power. Sure, his skill is a huge factor as well and it certainly allows him to be cooler than other Jedi when he is completely given over to the Force, but maybe the answer as to WHY he can do things at some times and not others isn't just because of his skill, but simply because of what the Force allows/requires in that situation.

 

This episode is probably one of my favorites on account of Mace Windu is one of my favorite Jedi and because he was able to tear those droids apart with his hands.

 

After re-watching I have to say this chapter grows on me. It's kinda funny.

 

That annoyed me. If we're to believe that Mace is that darn powerful, how will the Jedi ever get defeated? I'm surprised he never accidentally blew up half of Coruscant just by sneezing!


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

I think the standard rule for portraying Jedi powers should be: if it looks like he's wasting his time by bothering to carry a lightsaber around, you've probably gone too far.

 

I like this episode, only one thing -- how is it that Mace Windu is a Teras Kasi Master and a Master Jedi at the same time?

Sorry, attempt at SWG humor ...

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BTW, I think all the naysayers are taking this too seriously. They DO have Martial arts in Star Wars, and it's Teras Kasi, as featured above. I never once thought to myself "wow, this is like Matrix". If anything is wrong, I'd say Mace Windu jumped a bit too high. And even then, his boarding of that Trade Federation vehicle reminded me of when Luke took down the AT-AT on Hoth.

Also, there is some continuity issue; if Mace had the power to take on that many droids, why didn't he start ripping them apart with the Force in the Episode 2 arena scene? One can patch that up by saying he had more experience fighting droid soldiers since then ...

 

Cartoon Mace is a lot more powerful than Movie Mace. Since Movie Mace is canon, Cartoon Mace is contradicted. Therefore, as cool as Ch. 13 was, it's not part of official continuity.

I don't buy the explanation that Mace on his own would be allowed to Unleash his Force powers more than in the AOTC arena. When the group is surrounded on Geonosis, the density of droids was about equal to what was shown in the cartoon. If each Jedi Force pushed in an arc in front of him, all the droids would be pushed away as seen in Ch. 13. And we know from Ch. 13 that the powerful Force push can be directed. Since none of the Jedi even attempted that, it's safe to say that Mace can't accomplish such feats.

I can accept the explanation that the whole thing is seen from the kid's point of view, so Mace looks super powerful. His boarding of the ship was realistic though.

 

I just saw this episode online. It was unbelievable. I like this Mace better than the Mace in the movies. This Mace doesn't waste time and dispenses his enemies quickly but has enough time after they're all destroyed for a cup of water. Brilliant.

~aeryn

 

My one (and biggest) complaint about this episode is that I think chapter 12 and 13 could have been blended together, and still showcase General Windu as a powerful jedi. Chapter 12 was 3 mins of lightsaber action...and chapter 13 was "Kung Windu-Fu" hand to hand fighting. I think if they'd got to the point...they could have done everything in one chapter. I think CLONE WARS is overusing the "force push" effect as a way of getting out of impossible situations. Acouple well places ((whooosh)) is cool, but it's getting overdone.

My favorite part was the "Mean Joe Green" scene at the end with the kid; that was cute. I almost wanted to see Mace say (I would have liked some dialogue from Mace) like:
Here kid, have a jedi robe! (instead of offering his football jersey) and that would have clinched it as a cool scene for me.

Another cool moment was when Mace pulls all the pins and screws out of the Super Battledroid, and uses them as projectiles against other droids...THAT I can see the jedi learning to use as a tactic in ground combat.

 

Unbelievable!
1) Unbelievably cool! and
2) Unbelievable that anyone would have a problem with the portrayal of Mace.

C'mon, the whole point of the Star Wars series is escapist entertainment. If you want realism in your sci-fi (already a contradiction) go watch, I don't know, Star Trek or something.

But for you ninnies who need a justification for unarmed Jedi combat go watch the duel between Obi and Jango on Kamino.

 

Darth Vader said in A New Hope that the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force. That should let you all know that different beings have different abilities, and anyone who can command the force can do extraordinary things.......anyway I agree with what one of the guys posted, some of you really take this way out of context. I don't give a damn about history and trying to make things fit. I want stories told and shown, I don't care about some damn explanation about fake history, If I want history and expalnations. I look at our real world history and its events. Star Wars is just an escapism, just like when the movies came out back in 1977. They came out with no expextations and no fuss, and they did great and our treasured for all time. No wonder the prequels aren't making the money at the box-office like the Harry Potter's and the Lord of the Rings movies have. Explanations is sometimes not good.Go with the flow and enjoy.

 

No wonder the prequels aren't making the money at the box-office like the Harry Potter's and the Lord of the Rings movies have


Okay, if you say so...

 

This chapter was a bit far fetched for me. I'm not upset by it, but I have to wonder (like others who have posted before me) why the heck Mace and the other Jedis didn't perform like this at the battle of Geonosis.
The Jedi's mortality despite their awesome power is what makes them interesting... agree or disagree???(I'm not sure how I feel about it)

 

Once again, I find it unbelievable:

(a) that so many people take offence to the abilities Mace shows in Chapters 12 & 13 - CW has been over the top the entire way through, all 17 chapters to date.

Think: the ARC troopers, Durge, Kit Fisto (the force energy/water ball), Asajj fighting on Rattatak, Dooku, Obi-Wan vs. Durge, et cetera.

It's all been beyond what we seen in the movies - I mean, in the first chapter, we see Anakin and Obi-Wan jumping out of a ship that's like 1,000 feet in the air!

So why get so uptight over it? And, in the same vein,

(b) why are so many of you trying to fit Mace's abilities into a logical GFFA explanation? Sure, it looks like Mace could have single-handedly taken out every single droid on Geonosis if we had these abilities,

but while your explanations are quite clever (I especially like the one about seeing the battle through the kid's eyes), they're simply unnecessary. Mace is NOT this powerful in the movies or anywhere else.

The whole point of the CW shorts is to blow us away with the action - which Chapters 12 & 13 certainly did.


Hmm...if you want an expansion on Mace's abilties that doesn't go quite as far as the CW cartoons, check out Matt Stover's Shatterpoint.

Mace seems more powerful than was shown on Geonosis, but less powerful than in CW.

I hope no one takes offense to my comments.

 

Hey everyone, after watching all the episodes especially 12 & 13 I'm impressed. This is what I imagined Jedi to be like, I know that most people feel these episodes to be over the top. Me personally I like it, with this you can see why most people in the Starwars universe fear and at times dispise them. With stuff like this you can see why the phrases " Have you ever faced a Jedi before sir," and " We will not survive this. " from Episode I comes from. Sure, I know most wonder why if he can do all that here, why couldn't he do it in the arena. I wish they would have, showing the Jedi as almost unstoppable when they really need to be. Up to this point I've felt that most Jedi shown were weak or watered down, how can you be in awe/fear if it relatively easy to kill them. Now I don't think they have Demi-god status, but it should be EXTREMELY difficult to kill them. Oh well, one has there own imagination, sorry for rambling on. I love the Episodes so far...lol

 

Sorry, yea-sayers, that was completely unrealistic. Matrix comparisons and AOTC comparisons aside, even Yoda had to concentrate to pull the snow on the droids in episode 15. Tossing hundreds of battle droids aside is crazy. It was fun to watch, but it's a lot harder to suspend disbelief when Mace becomes the "Army of One." Say what you will about Zahn's books, but he did humanize the Jedi and bring them down to a believable power level (IE the power level in the movies.) The idea of Mace fighting sans saber was good, but they took it a little too far. Episode 15 was much better.

 

Hmmmmm...I wonder. It appears there is a great disparity here. Eveyone comments on how over the top the Jedi(Mace) appear in these CW shorts, but I remember in a certain movie how easy and nonchalant a certain fallen Jedi pulled down a big heavy metal pipe down on some Jedi. Why is it that it seems ok for a Sith/DarkJedi to have displays like this(Mace Like) but it's not ok for our friendly neighborhood Jedi's to put their abilities on display when necessary. Even though they are not showing it in the movies, I have a feeling that they can do these things if and when necessary.

Offtopic:
Out of everyone here, who expected to see the Jedi differently than have been shown.

On Topic:
I love these CW shorts, wish it was ongoing and longer.

 

Definetely a great episode. Very fun too watch! I would agree with people who say tho that the 'movie' mace is no where near this powerful! It was fun to see theis 'uber' Mace for these episodes tho. Also Dooku's pulling down the pillar thing was nowhere near the power that mace showed. Dooku's crushed the lower support of the pillar so it would give way then pulled it. I would expect many jedi to be able to do this. Anyway as a one off this was cool, I was really expecting Mace to stand under 'stompy' and the use the force to stop it! they didn't go THAT far tho!

 

one-jedi, I'm not making a comparison between to the two feats, just a comparison between what a Sith compared to what a Jedi can do. I've noticed that most of the complaints are on the Jedi doing over the top type of things, but I hear nothing about the Sith/DarkJedi performing similar types of feats. It seems like it's excepted to see Sith/DarkJedi perform phenominal force feats, but complaints abound when their light side brotheran come out to play. Why is that? From the OT movies, the impression is given that Jedi/DarkJedi/Sith are a force(no pun intended) to be reckoned with. They Jedi have kept order and protected the galaxy for centuries. I feel the PT so far has not lived up to these impressions, the CW toons are finally giving most of us what we expected to see of the Jedi. Jedi in full bloom displaying awesome ability, showing why they are what they are, why most people are in awe of them and others in fear of them.

CW toons for life...he

Side Note: As for Mace using the force to just take apart the Siesmic tank, I have a feeling that he could have. Remember the Force is a powerful allie, in the end he is only human. Such a feat would most likely have totally drained him, leaving him open to attach. And this episode when have to be renamed the Death of Mace Windu...lol

 

You ALL spoke for me in that Mace jumped a little too high for me but, hey, we're not Jedi! This is Star Wars, so it's ok! And that lightsaber powers up and SLASH CRACK FIZZ!!! Great action from Master Windu!

One thing I love about thses CW toons is the official sounds they use... the blasters, ships and lightsabers... all adds to that experience! Great!

AND...best CW moment yet...MACE PULLING OUT THE SBDs NUTS AND BOLTS TO USE AS PROJECTILES!! SUPERB!!!!

 

Very good points Garth Maul, I totally agree. When Anakin detroys hundreds of enemy fighters in space or Kit Fisto blows up a ship with a bubble everyone is fine but nooooo... don't let Mace do even one "unrealistic" thing? What is unrealistic in Sci-fi anyway?

What's up with the hating no Mace?

 

Brilliant. Thanks Quest.

Obviously Big Brother was watching our debate.

 

So, Matrix whiners can take it as an in-universe exagerration, and everyone else can enjoy it as the most kick-ass cartoon of the entire series.

Man, I love the databank.

 

Seriously every time we see martial arts in the movies are we going to say the matrix. Or is the matrix all we know. Lucas and anyone who works on these films as I said before have to keep up with the other action films of today or else we'll be complaining about that as well.