***OFFICIAL**** Episode III Discussion thread

Indeed- it would be cool to see Obi's patch and Yoda's tear, but dont you think 30 years of isolation would leave them bored enough to do a little light sewing?

 

LOL... I was just thinking about that. Obi-wan trying to figure out how to sew a new robe. Hehe... I found it funny.

Ah and Here you can find all those pictures my sister took at the premiere.

 

Linkie no work

 

Try now??

 

Much better

 

Awesome.

 

I wonder if the stormtroopers of the OT are still clones...

 

actually, lucas recently comented on the matter.

he said that yes, its still a clone army but at one point they started to recruit average joes because the empire thought it was cheaper than growing their soldiers. So its kinda like a watered down clone army.

 

And its the average Joe's we see fighting in the OT- you know the ones- the troopers who couldnt hit the broadside of a bantha with a light repeating blaster.

 

JoC-i was totally wondering the same thing. He leaves it when he fights grevious...and earlier when they are on the ship at the beginning. he must have more than one.

 

So, I watched ANH yesterday. It was cool, because a lot of parts I didn't really pay attention to make a lot more sense now. But it is hard for me to think of both trilogies as one long story, because they're so different, yet the same. It is cool to see how everything ties together.

 

Bump....

 

Okay... I was just watching the Mace/Sidious fight and the Jedi Purge scenes in slow mo (don't ask ) First of all... Mace was not being punked by Sidious, they were seriously going at it, it wasn't until Mace knocked him totally off-balance with a serious kick to the head that he got even the slightest bit of advantage.

Second... AAYLA IS FLIPPIN DEAD!!! Sorry, been a little sick of hearing how "she could've lived." There are literally burning holes in the chick, she's nitrates in the soil, man

Third, Ki-Adi Mundi is the man! He took out at least 4 of the troopers that attacked him before one of them got a lucky shot in.

Fourth, I sooooo want to do a PT Snowtrooper!

 

as far as the movie's concerned, dealing with the mace/sidious fight, i always saw it this way... and i apologize if it has been brought up before.

anakin is the chosen one. his actions greatly affect the force, and which side has the advantage: light or dark. sidious and mace were going at it, and mace beat sid's in a lightsaber fight. palpatine's plan was to have anakin arrive and join his side, thus strengthening the dark side. sidious gives mace all that he's got, but it's not enough until anakin turns, attacks mace, and palpatine realizes the dark side's new strength, anakin, has helped him win the battle. then later, sidious and yoda are fighting, and sidious is more powerful than he was when he fought mace. to me, i just wondered if the sides were even, with anakin's fall towards the dark side tipping the scales in the dark sides favor. what do other people think?

 

That's an interesting theory. Could we use it to also explain why so many of the other Jedi were so pathetically easy to wipe out?

I don't know, though. I still can't help but think that the Palpatine-Mace fight was never as even as it looked. It's tempting to think that Mace stood a real chance, but the evidence seems to point the other way. Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin ahead of time, priming him to see the Jedi as threatening Palpatine's life rather than "bringing him to justice"... Palpatine *needed* this event to happen, and I can't see him taking a chance on Mace truly being able to wipe him out. The fact that he allowed the fight to happen as it, together with his manipulation of Anakin, implies to me that he was in control of everything.

 

On another topic of speculation... I'm sure this has been discussed on other boards, and in the end, it's probably just a plot hole, but... just why did Padme die? What killed her?

The basics of the movie seem to say that she died of a "broken heart"; certainly they made it clear that there was nothing so seriously wrong with her medically as to threaten her life. But dying of a broken heart? That seems ludicrous. It wasn't like she was life-threatenly ill or injured and didn't have the strength to fight to live. She was FINE, she still had her kids to live for even if she didn't have Anakin anymore, but instead she just died.

I wonder if maybe there could have been more to it than that. The way the movie cut back and forth between Padme dying and Vader being "born" was great for symmetry and drama, but the timing also made me wonder if there could be something deeper going on beneath the surface. Could Anakin's transformation into Vader have contributed to Padme's death, in a more direct way?

By everything that we know of the Jedi, at least canon knowledge as far as I know, they didn't marry. They didn't have kids, and most importantly, they didn't form attachments. Since they never did so, it would stand to reason that they wouldn't know anything about such attachments, or what the consequences of a Jedi - especially one as strong as Anakin - forming those attachments would be. I've got to wonder, even though Padme wasn't a Jedi or Force sensitive, could there have been some sort of Force-bond between her and Anakin? Something the Jedi wouldn't even guess at, due to their lack of experience with such matters?

Years later, Obi-wan told Luke that from a certain point of view, the good man that was his father had died, becoming Vader. Now, we know that this wasn't completely true, given that Vader later turns back to the good side to save Luke. But what if there were some truth to it? Could there have been enough trauma in Anakin's transformation to Vader, in his "death", to have somehow killed Padme through the hypothetical Force-bond?

I admit, there's really nothing at all in the movie to support this idea, beyond the timing between those scenes. It's probably more wishful thinking than anything else... but it really would be nice if there were a less lame explanation for Padme's death.

 

Nice theory... I personally think (after watching all 3 PT's this weekend) that Padme was an adept of some kind... There are 3 distinct moments (one in each) which show she has more than standard connection to other people... Once w/ Anakin on the Cruiser heading towards Coruscant, once with Palpy in his office, and then that scene between her and Anakin as he decides to save Palpy from the Jedi. There are a few other, more subtle hints, but those stick out strongly in my mind.

It takes 7-1/2 hours, but I am really seeing this as one movie now, and not 3 different ones... It also makes more sense this way. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

 

Okay, here's a question that has been bugging me for a while.

Why did Anakin turn to the Dark Side?

I know, after seeing RotS, that seems like the stupidest, most ignorant question. But when it comes down to it... right after seeing the movie, I thought I understood. But later, as time went on, I started getting uncertain. Obviously, the first - and surely correct - answer is that he did it to save Padme. I'm fine with that as the answer to what prompted his decision; I guess I'm asking something on a further level. Why did he really turn evil?

Some parts of the movie seem to imply to me that Anakin knew that what he was doing was wrong, that he knew that he was choosing the side of evil. But, he did it - despite knowing that it was wrong - because he saw it as being the only chance he had to save Padme. Essentially, he led himself down that path on purpose, knowing he shouldn't, for the sole purpose of gaining power to save his wife.

However, there are other parts of the movie that make it sound like he fell for the whole charade Palpatine was pulling... that he believed the whole "oh, the Jedi are evil, they're only after power, they're going to overthrow the legitimate Senate" scam.

SO which is it? Did he think he was doing the right thing by standing by the "Republic" and eliminating the evil Jedi? Or did he know that he was doing the wrong thing, the evil thing, but did it anyway because the only thing he cared about by that point was saving Padme's life? I'm not sure that the two reasons can both be totally true at the same time.

 

I found more answers to those questions in the novel

If I get home at a reasonable hour tonight, I'll expound on that then

 

Or it could just be that 30 years ago GL wrote that Vader had been a Jedi once, and hey tried their best to come up with a lame back story.

In the end, it just came down to that Anakin was an impatient brat, and he had turned to the Dark Side back in AOTC when he flipped out and killed all those Tuskens.

I don't think Anakin really had the intelligence to come to any real well thought out reasons. The only things shown in the movies are...

[whine]I hate politicians.[/whine]
[whine]I love Padme.[/whine]
[whine]I miss my mom.[/whine]
[whine]I want to be a master, but they won't let me.[/whine]
[whine]People keep calling me "Annie."[/whine]

It's like all those years of schooling didn't do a single thing for him. Anakin as an 8-yr-old had more substance to him and his accomplishments were enormous compared to what he had become. *shrug*

The comics won't even touch Anakin's story to build him up into a cool character...IMO, I think it's mostly because he doesn't possess any deep qualities -- he's spent his childhood pining over Padme and his mom. He's almost just a background character until he becomes Vader.

 

ok, i have been 'trying' to get around reading ROTS.

I'll see if i can't get that done sooner than later.

all very good questions T.

 

I don't think Anakin really had the intelligence to come to any real well thought out reasons.

I don't think he had to have had any well thought out reasons... in fact, I think if he had thought everything through well, he wouldn't have made the decision he made. I'm just wondering what his reasons really were, well thought out or not. I mean, he didn't go "Oops. I accidently joined the Sith and wiped out the Jedi without noticing what I was doing." Did he choose the wrong side on purpose, knowing that it was the wrong side, or did he think he was on the right side, that what he was doing was right? Or, did he choose the wrong side on purpose but tried to delude himself and others that what he was doing was right?


I have to confess... I only read partway through the novelization. I liked the fact that it added much more detail for various parts of the storyline, in some cases even bringing in storylines that were completely cut from the movie. But I was sad to find that I didn't care as much for the writing style, and I didn't feel like I was really seeing the full depths of the characters all the time. *shrug* It's weird, because I really liked his other SW books, but something about the RotS novelization didn't quite work for me. I should get around to finishing reading it one of these days, though.

 

I mean, he didn't go "Oops. I accidently joined the Sith and wiped out the Jedi without noticing what I was doing."

Yeah he did. End of ROTJ.

 

um... not really.
anyway,

T, I think its similar to addiction.
We all know his initial intent was to save Padme.
So compare that to "stopping to pain". But once he was given a taste of the painkiller, it felt REALLY REALLY good.
He liked it. He didnt want to stop, but knew he wasnt really supposed to be doing it, so then it very quickly became about justification.
"I'm doing this for you!"

(Oh sure... followed quickly by "*I can overthrow him.")

He started out trying to save his wife. Then he realized how much power he really had. It was what he had always wanted.
Obviously there was guilt involved. Anguish and tears on Mustafar, etc.
But somehow, it was all justifyable.
"I will do whatever you ask. Just promise me you'll save Padmes life."

He'd made a commitment. He'd given his word.
He "must obey [his] master."

"What have I done?"
-You cut off your Mace's hand in a moment of panic, you fool!-

Whe he did that, he had gone so far that he had no choice but to convince himself he was right.
Sid-"The Jedis next move will be against the Senate."
Ani-"I agree."
-WHAT?! No you dont! You just want to be best buddies with the cool kid at school.-

At that time, I dont think he knew (or cared) what he had gotten himself into.

The duel with Obi-Wan was basically an impulse decision that resulted in something that neither of them could ever take back.

Then Sid sealed the deal.
"... you killed her (and your unborn child)."


And after that...
yeah. My temper would be pretty frickin short.

 

My single, greatest takeaway from RotS....unfortunately....is how much weaker it makes the storylines for Episodes I & II.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still enjoy & appreciate those prequels for what they are . But, again unfortunately, Episode III has shown me what they could have been .

I think it all comes down to the fact that GL knew where he wanted to end up in Episode III, but he didn't have a stong plan on how to get there with Episodes I & II.

Personally, I just think he could've accomplished sooooooo much more than he did with the first 2 prequels, so that when we finally arrive at Episode III, we can CLEARLY see why Anakin makes the choices that he does.

Unfortunately, by not directly giving us the necessary insight into Anakin's formative years & experiences with Palpatine, the Jedi Council, Obi Wan, without his Mother, etc., it all comes off as the whiny teen gone gad.

But, since GL didn't give us the requisite pieces to complete our puzzle, we're left to our own devices to fill in the blanks.

I think it would've been so much more worthwhile to have seen Palpy's machinations from the get-go, as opposed to trade blockades on Naboo and assassination plots on Geonosis.

In ep's I & II, GL gave us a lot of pretty pictures, which for the most part contained very little subject matter.