~~Official Expanded Universe Discussion Thread~~ Current Topic: Backlashes against EU characters

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by BultarSwan, Aug 2, 2004.

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  1. JediHobbit Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 5
    also, with Coruscnt being the center of the galactic governments, housing needed to be available for the multitude of politicians, traders, diplomats, etc. The number of wealthy residents attracted huge amounts of commerce, thus needing housing for all the merchants and cargo haulers and stuff. Plus there's the people that just happen to like living in big cities or in the middle of galactic affairs that are attracted there. so lot of people means lots of room needed, and run you can't spread out any more, you build up.
  2. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    I was the one who brought up the topic, and I will admit I've always been curious about Coruscant. The whole 'city-covered planet' is, of course, nothing new, and I've always...detested it.

    Did they have to cover all those layers like they did? Couldn't they have, well, renovated the existing structure? Pre Del Ray, before the dark times, I was waiting for the entire thing to collapse under its own weight.
  3. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    I tend to think of it like a parallel to our world. There is a whole lot of debate about what to do with "urban sprawl" in metropolitan areas.

    What usually happens when a location grows old is that its renovation costs become prohibitive, and the owner simply just ups and moves, leaving the decrepit building there to rot. This can be seen all across the world, and particularly in areas of cities which may have fallen on hard times.

    It seems clear to me that municipalities ought to be including "make virgin" clauses in their zoning permits which include the upfront cost of turning a site back into a greenspace if an owner has to vacate a site without having a new owner or something. The problem is that everyone in the greater metropolitan area has to do it, or the company just jumps a town over who doesn't require such a cost and the towns who require it gets screwed anyway.

    Because there will always be someone who's looking to bring business in, that will never happen.

    We have the same problem, just at a city-wide instead of planetary scale.
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Striker, the solution they use is to turn the buildings into natural structures.

    In a sense, rather than become useless buildings, the old foundational levels turn into the "ground" and are connected and interconnected together. As we can see from the movies, Imperial Center has a clearly defined "surface" of buildings--where the upper level buildings emerge.

    With everything connected and built into each other, everything tends to support everything else--much like Imperial Center's power grid. :)
  5. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    So if someone destroyed the keystone, they could essentially destroy Coruscant? The only problem is, is finding the keystone. Lol.
  6. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    *Thinks about Jello's post for a moment*

    So, it's kinda like Kashyyyk's forest structure? Hmm, neat.

    However, I still just don't like it. I know it's 'supposed' to be necessary for the gevernment of known space, but it still feels like they basically raped a planet.

    I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's how I feel about it.
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    star 10
    However, I still just don't like it. I know it's 'supposed' to be necessary for the gevernment of known space, but it still feels like they basically raped a planet.


    They didn't rape her. They dressed her up in the finest fabrics and covered her from head to toe in jewels.

    Whether that's right or not is another matter, but it's not rape.

    Duros was raped. Metellos was raped.

    Imperial Center was not.

    Though it could have been a near thing. The fact that Imperial Center happens to be in the middle of key routes saved her--but Metellos, Imperial Center's sister world, is an example of all that could have gone WRONG with Imperial Center. Metellos is completely urbanized--but is an industrial wasteland.
  8. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    I apologize Jello. 'Rape' was far too harsh a word. Coruscant did get off lightly compared to Duros (that was a rape of a planet, no denying it) and that 'sister world' that I've never heard of. What's it from, anyway? Coruscant and the Core Worlds?

    I have to admit, as I go off on a tangent, an archealogical expedition to the lowest levels of the planet would be absolutely fascinating! Lord knows what would be found down there. Maybe the coordinates for the lost homeworld of humanity is there, or the origins of the Jedi Order!
  9. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    I've always loved Coruscant. Ever since we were introduced to it immediately became my favorite planet and the one I'd want to live on more than any other world.

    When it fell in STAR BY STAR I was literally crying. Coruscant, my dream planet, was GONE.
  10. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    star 10
    I apologize Jello. 'Rape' was far too harsh a word. Coruscant did get off lightly compared to Duros (that was a rape of a planet, no denying it) and that 'sister world' that I've never heard of. What's it from, anyway? Coruscant and the Core Worlds?


    You have absolutely no reason to apologize. :)

    Anyways... yes, it's from Coruscant and the Core Worlds.

    Thanos: Likewise. Most people in SbS cried about Anakin. I was sad that Coruscant was violated by the Yuuzhan Vong. :(
  11. BultarSwan Founder: Grand Rapids, MI FF

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2003
    star 9
    When it fell in STAR BY STAR I was literally crying. Coruscant, my dream planet, was GONE.

    My poor eyes have not yet seen that in print. :( I hate being spoiled sometimes. :( :(


    So if someone destroyed the keystone, they could essentially destroy Coruscant? The only problem is, is finding the keystone. Lol.

    Wouldn't that be the largest, most dense part of the entire planet? The middle? (Unless of course the middle of the planet Corouscant is NOT similar to Earth's in that it has a much lighter material supporting it...) So, all one would have to do would be to create a machine that could drill to the center (by remote control preferably), destroy the core and escape. That is one theory anyways...

    OR, if you're talking purely buildings and other manmade structures, then one would have to either have or create a tool to locate the largest, densest material on the planet (within a certain amount of space (I'm not able to explain how that is done) surface. Unless they have kept very accurate records of what buildings were made first and what they were made out of, which I am almost certain was never done.


    They didn't rape her. They dressed her up in the finest fabrics and covered her from head to toe in jewels.
    Whether that's right or not is another matter, but it's not rape.
    Duros was raped. Metellos was raped.
    Imperial Center was not.


    They ruined her true beauty. One could say all the manmade structures, ect. are superficial. I'm NOT saying that I don't find it fascinating on a scientific level, not to mention archeologically satisfying, BUT one could argue that the entire planet was completely ruined beyond repair and the true landscape of the planet has been altered beyond
    what can be undone which, from the viewpoint of a landscaper, is never good.


    I myself have am not convinced that such a thing is even possible. Even theoretically, the whole idea holds no place in educated thought. What about atmospheric zones? I'm going to assume that Coruscant's natural atmosphere is much like our own. Based on this information, a neverending stack of buildings and whatnot is impossible. The atmosphere would thin out as you got higher until there was no more atmosphere. I realize that they probably have some very durable building material, but we all know that even at the higher levels people are supposedly able to breathe outside the confines of buildings.

    ...Just a ramble before bedtime. If it doesn't make any sense, that's why. But, feel free to ask me about any of it. ;)
  12. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    While I can see that argument, by the time of the NJO, the cityscape WAS Coruscant's "natural environment" and had been since the dawn of the Old Republic.
  13. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    Jello, I can't see how you can say they didn't rape Coruscant. The planet has no natural landscapes anymore, save for some big manufactured lake and one mountain top. Not the same as Duros, true, but it's still pretty awful. It's not a planet anymore, it's just tons of metal on a solid core.

    And BultarSwan brings up a good point. How do they breathe? :p
  14. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    star 10
    My poor eyes have not yet seen that in print. I hate being spoiled sometimes.


    So sorry Swan. :(

    Wouldn't that be the largest, most dense part of the entire planet? The middle? (Unless of course the middle of the planet Corouscant is NOT similar to Earth's in that it has a much lighter material supporting it...) So, all one would have to do would be to create a machine that could drill to the center (by remote control preferably), destroy the core and escape. That is one theory anyways...


    No, that's not how architecture works. Think of like a sports dome or something... usually things have support such that destroying the middle wouldn't necessarily knock everything down.

    They ruined her true beauty. One could say all the manmade structures, ect. are superficial. I'm NOT saying that I don't find it fascinating on a scientific level, not to mention archeologically satisfying, BUT one could argue that the entire planet was completely ruined beyond repair and the true landscape of the planet has been altered beyond
    what can be undone which, from the viewpoint of a landscaper, is never good.


    One could say that a female's form is their true beauty and dressing her up excessively isn't right.

    That's what happened to Imperial Center. Fancy dresses and all the other stuff that happens with civilization is extremely superficial.

    But is the center of galactic culture exactly superficial? Maybe from the naturalist's perspective.

    But from the opposite side, it isn't. It just depends on the perspective.

    Hence, Imperial Center as the ultimate representatation of society and civilization at its ideal. Good? Bad? Who knows?

    I myself have am not convinced that such a thing is even possible. Even theoretically, the whole idea holds no place in educated thought. What about atmospheric zones? I'm going to assume that Coruscant's natural atmosphere is much like our own. Based on this information, a neverending stack of buildings and whatnot is impossible. The atmosphere would thin out as you got higher until there was no more atmosphere. I realize that they probably have some very durable building material, but we all know that even at the higher levels people are supposedly able to breathe outside the confines of buildings.


    Rebirth explains how.

    Atmospheric air scrubbers. Bazillions of them. That's why her atmosphere went really bad when the Vong invaded--the air scrubbers were gone.

    The entire planet was climate controlled to the finest point by the Central Computer Center.

    Jello, I can't see how you can say they didn't rape Coruscant. The planet has no natural landscapes anymore, save for some big manufactured lake and one mountain top. Not the same as Duros, true, but it's still pretty awful. It's not a planet anymore, it's just tons of metal on a solid core.


    Marah, what do you feel about the standards that society puts on women? Is that rape?

    No, of course not. It's just putting quantifiers on what constitutes beauty and what doesn't. That's what happened to Imperial Center.

    The planet was clothed and lost her original identity, but in doing so, acquired one that society said is much better.

    That's not rape. That's civilization, for better or worse.
  15. BultarSwan Founder: Grand Rapids, MI FF

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2003
    star 9
    So this discussion could go on forever since it is based on personal opinion.

    I'm a bit of a naturalist myself. I prefer the natural (in most cases). *Shrug*

    Rebirth explains how.

    Atmospheric air scrubbers. Bazillions of them. That's why her atmosphere went really bad when the Vong invaded--the air scrubbers were gone.

    The entire planet was climate controlled to the finest point by the Central Computer Center.


    Ah, that does explain part of it. Thank-you J-e-l-l-o. :)


    And now back to my interupted sleep. A pox on my overactive mind! :p
  16. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Wouldn't that be the largest, most dense part of the entire planet? The middle? (Unless of course the middle of the planet Corouscant is NOT similar to Earth's in that it has a much lighter material supporting it...) So, all one would have to do would be to create a machine that could drill to the center (by remote control preferably), destroy the core and escape. That is one theory anyways...

    Not what I meant.

    OR, if you're talking purely buildings and other manmade structures, then one would have to either have or create a tool to locate the largest, densest material on the planet (within a certain amount of space (I'm not able to explain how that is done) surface. Unless they have kept very accurate records of what buildings were made first and what they were made out of, which I am almost certain was never done.

    For something as large as Coruscant's cityscape, removing one building won't take down the rest. A very large and critical section would need to be destroyed at the planet's surface (bottom layer) in order to cause a domino effect. It may also require more than one such destruction due to its massive size. But basically, if you take away enough support underneath all the buildings, the rest start to crumble away on their own.

    A house can not stand without its foundations.
  17. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    star 10
    Swan: In something of the scale of Star wars, urbanizing an entire planet is like building a city like New York.

    Imperial Center is NOT the only city-planet in the GFFA.
  18. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Isnt Telos a city planet too?
  19. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Telos, Metellos... and I know there are more, too.
  20. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Hosk Station, is that a planet or just a death star like space station that builds droids?
  21. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    It's just a space station, IIRC.
  22. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    Though it should go without saying that none of them are on the scale of Coruscant.
  23. Thok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 6
    Excellent discussion.

    Continue
  24. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    "Jello, I can't see how you can say they didn't rape Coruscant. The planet has no natural landscapes anymore, save for some big manufactured lake and one mountain top. Not the same as Duros, true, but it's still pretty awful. It's not a planet anymore, it's just tons of metal on a solid core."

    That might be awful to you.

    To me, it's awe-inspiring and touches some part of my soul no other planet in Star Wars ever has.

    I'm not for urbanizing Kashyyyk or Endor or every planet in the galaxy. But one city planet? One glittering jewel? I'd be relocating there in a heartbeat.
  25. Lank_Pavail Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 7
    Ah, Coruscant. One of the first major links between the EU and the films.

    I find it breathtaking, and yet utterly disturbing. We know nothing of what the planet used to look like before more than 99% of it was covered permacrete and durasteel. Was it inhabitied? Just how far down beneath the buildings lays the old ground which has not seen the light of it's sun in millenia?

    It also holds a frightening interest for me thanks to Mike Stackpole: it gives us a glimpse of jst how powerful in the force Palpatine was. He was able to wipe out a huge stretch of buildings, costing possibly tens of millions of lives to hide Lusankya on the planet, and amek people just not notice. This almost impossibel feat now seems far more credible, considering he's manged to keep the secret of his Force powers hidden whjile stanidn next to some of the most powerful and versed Jedi of the day, including Yoda.
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