Full Series *Official * General Grievous in TCW Thread (Spoilers)

Again, Grievous wanted to be able to use the Force, not to be a Jedi.

They use the word Jedi cause they can use the Force.

Also he became a Cyborg so that the Banking Clan would help his people and planet.

 

And what's wrong with leaving the kids in the dark, for once?

 

You think?

 

I know this is old, but that RotS quote kept bugging me; it's one of my favourite quotes in the whole book.

Its:

Grievous: Attack, Kenobi, I've been trained in your Jedi Arts by Count Dooku!
Obi-Wan [smiles]: How ironic, I trained the boy who killed him!
*they duel*

Dunno if I got the Grievous part right, but I know Obi-Wan's reply is pretty accurate... either that or he says 'Jedi' instead of 'boy'. It's typical Obi-Wan to banter with his opponents... seconds before that he threatened Grievous to 'surrender, or I'll have to send your remains back to back to Coruscant in a cargo freighter'.

I hate the idea of the new Grievous story. Its just wrong... I mean come on! This new story they have for Grievous just has no depth or meaning to it. The old Grievous story is decent and we can kind of feel a little bit of sympathy for him, the reason being the tragedy of losing his best friend and lover to a war that was technically against the Jedi [they Jedi sided with the Huk against the Kalee]. That makes a lot more sense than the new story- a heartbroken 'hero' wishing to avenge his loved one.

The only reason he has anger management problems and so is because after the so-called shuttle accident they put anger enhancers and stuff in his brain and tampered with it [his brain, not his mind] so they could use him as a pawn. But I think the main reason Grievous is so intent on slaughtering Jedi is the fact that as a result of Jedi intervention, the people who he ruled over, those whom he cared about, died of starvation, hunger and poverty. As a warlord, Grievous probably just wants the Jedi to feel the same pain and suffering he and his people did at their hands- it's all about the revenge.

 

Thanks for the info, Biddybot. I have to say, that re-write of the General's bio is really, really weak. So much so that it makes me want to hurl. What a way to ruin a cool character! In one fell swoop some moron transforms Grievous from a complex, sympathetic, tragic, (and, at one point in his life, as a general in the Huk War, noble and heroic) character into a one-dimensional, stereotypical, dime-a-dozen, invite-to-Cobra-Commander's-surprise-birthday-party, comic book supervillain. Next thing you know, we'll learn that Anakin Skywalker volunteered to be chopped up and reassembled as Darth Vader in an effort to eclipse the power of the Emperor. Weak. Super weak.

I think whoever wrote that crapola is really underestimating the intelligence and resourcefulness of today's kids. As if every kid who was interested hasn't already read Grievous' REAL bio on starwars.com, wookiepedia, in various character guides, comics, and EU novels, etc. As if they couldn't handle the tragedy of Darth Vader and the shady role the Jedi played in (inadvertantly) helping to drive him over to the Dark Side.

This series can go one of two ways. They can either stay true to the dynamics established in the Star Wars films, or they can neuter it and make it suck. For all of its exagerrations, at least Tartakovsky's series attempted to do the former in most respects. I don't recall any hue and cry of outrage when Grievous slaughtered, onscreen no less, Roron Corobb, Foul Moudama, and most of Ki-Adi-Mundi's party on Hypori.

Perhaps instead of slaughtering more Jedi in the new series, as so many posting in this thread had hoped for, Grievous can follow in Ventress' footsteps when she disabled those Toydarian guards with a kid-friendly Force push instead of a saber to the gut. I can just see him now cramming a coconut cream pie into Anakin's face a la Bugs Bunny, giving Kit Fisto a wicked swirly, and blowing raspberries on Ahsoka Tano's tummy until she surrenders in a fit of laughter! And don't forget the noogies for Artoo!

What a bunch of bantha plop.

Edit: Karachi Kenja's post is spot on accurate!!!

 

Bravo! Very well said!

 

The_General_Onslow: You're welcome. And believe me, just because I think I understand why the series creators took this route, doesn't mean I like it or approve of it! Unfortunately for us, having a villain act meanly out of pure jealousy and envy really is a good way to go if you're looking to attract a kid audience. Even the teeniest ones (unless they've been very, very sheltered) understand these emotions and can relate to having been victimized because of them, and this new Grievous should therefore be a very satisfying character for them to hate. (Or love to hate, more accurately.) I think he's also the reason why we're seeing such moronic battle droids. Good kid-friendly villains need a safety cap to keep them from being too scary sometimes. Saddling him with idiotic henchmen who fail at their duties at a crucial moment always provides a good 'out', and I'll bet that this Grievous will also prove to be a great monologger, who'll pause to boast and brag himself up whenever a plucky hero he's got in his grasp needs time to extricate themselves. Man, I HOPE I'm dead wrong about all this and that TCW Grievous turns out to be at least as vicious as he was in Genndy's CW, but right now it just seems so darn familiar... I'll forgive Grievous even if he does go over to the Fluffy Side, though, if only he gets to waste the odd no-name Jedi and scads of anonymous clones and level a planet now and then...

On the plus side, if this Grievous really did choose to become a cyborg, does that mean that for the purposes of this series his mind is unaltered and still 100% his own with all memories intact? That could be an interesting development!

And now just for fun and because I happen to have it handy and it might not be widely available anymore, here's the exact original Grievous background material which I think may have made some people uneasy when they were first developing TCW. It's from the article 'Unknown Soldier: The Story Of General Grievous' that Abel G. Pena wrote for the Star Wars Insider magazine and lays out exactly why Grievous hates the Jedi Order so:

'Grievous, his bloodthirst unquenched, pursued the Yam'rii to the aliens' colony worlds, conquering the invaders' planets one by one. Attacking both military and civilian targets with equal force, the vengeance-bent militants rampaged as far as Tovarskl before they were stopped. The Yam'rii, in league with the Trade Federation, pleaded with the Republic to intercede on their behalf, and the Republic Judicial Department sent a Jedi team, led by Masters T'chooka D'oon and Jmmaar, to adjudicate the conflict. With Senate pressure, both Masters ruled in favor of the Yam'rii and imposed sanctions and reparations on the Kaleesh, including the forced return of the colony worlds. The Huk War ended and Grievous, bred for battle, saw little choice but to return to his family.

The effects of the Republic's sanctions were staggering. Kalee was economically decimated, and the Kaleesh died in droves. Grievous simmered with hatred for the galactic government and the Jedi who served it as he watched his wives die of starvation and saw his children kidnapped and subjected to the worst acts of depravity.'

That's the sort of background I'd expect of a tragic villain, not a just plain mean and evil villain, and I don't think the TCW team wants a tragic villain in Grievous. The tragic villain role in Star Wars belongs to Anakin/Darth Vader. Maybe another reason to rework the Grievous character...

 

Thanks Glymphid Warlord!

Don't worry, Biddy! I'd never accuse you of co-signing their garbage.

Urrggh! So what you're saying is we may be stuck with a Grievous that's more akin to Dr. Klaw than Dr. Doom. Let's hope against hope that we're wrong and that the new Grievous bio is a fluke intended only for boxes and blister packs at Toys 'R Us and is given no canonical weight whatsoever!

Hear, hear!

Mmmm...I'd still prefer his original origin. It's a huuuuge part of why I'm so drawn to the character. If he becomes cookie-cutter village number gazillion, he'd lose a lot of his charm for me.

Now THAT'S the Grievous I know and love!

 

Well on the bright side, Grievous and his villainy is making the 'Prequels raped my childhood' fans like SW again.

 

I'm new, so don't bother wondering whether you've seen me before. XD
I'd like to point out that the Clone Wars Visual Guide has a simplified version of Grievous's backstory about him being on Kalee, crashing, and rebuilt, so its possible the deeper parts of him are still in.
I'm just putting in my two credits here, but I think that it's possible (though not probable) that Grievous is going to receive a combination of his backstories. It could work out like this...

Grievous is still a warlord on Kalee with the wars and the Huk and everything, except rather than outright hating the Jedi, he has heard of them and respects their warrior skills. In fact, even when becoming a demigod to his people and everything, he wishes he could match them if only to better protect his people. Eventually, his soulmate dies, his people are reduced to poverty, and he is involved in that shuttle crash. With nobody to turn to, he agrees to help the Seps in return for aid to his planet and is rebuilt as a cyborg. That last part was in the visual guide.
Now, Grievous has the technological means to match the Jedi but soon learns that he has been royally conned. His people are probably only a little better off and now he is a prisoner in a metallic droid body (and we all know how much GG hates droids). He has at last achieved the skill he desires only to learn that he has lost everything else. To make sure he doesn't lose out on anything else, he decides he might as well make sure the Jedi and Republic pay for putting him in such a situation.

I'm probably way off the mark and they DO want to make him more 'kid-friendly', but maybe I can provide you guys with some 'unstated official backstory' to ease the passage into this new Grievous. Just add all that to any dialogue relating to the General's backstory.

 

That's actually not that bad, as it's not that different than his traditional backstory.

Just a quick thought, which is more "kid friendly":

a.) a great warrior who is conned, mutilated, and exploited by a nefarious corporate organization

or

b.) a surgically addicted, homicidal mental case who is willing to have his organs carved out of his body, his limbs hacked off, his face peeled away and replaced with a mask, etc., in order to "transform"

If "kid friendly" was really what they were going for with the second backstory, they're waaaay off the mark. Are Kroenen from Hellboy and Dollarhyde from Red Dragon suddenly kid friendly characters? The kids are already somewhat familiar with the first backstory as it intentionally echoes Anakin's/Vader's story.

They're better off leaving Grievous' origins alone.

 

Quite frankly, I'm not too miffed about the new backstory...I'm just going with the notion that they toned it down for the kiddies, but whatever they go with, I'm still sticking to the more in-depth backstory presented in 'Eyes of Revolution' and the Abel Pena article.

And like others have said, his tragic circumstances is what also turned me on to the character...I'm more for tragic villians than downright evil ones. I'm just worried that they'll turn him into a 'waugh, waugh, waugh' villian and he'll come off being silly. So far, I like what I see, but we have alot of episodes to go.

Well, if anything, it got me back into the Grievous fandom that I admittingly strayed away from and I hope we see more of the Good General to come.

Edit: And here's to really hoping they don't make TCW backstory canon

 

Sorry for the double post, but I just re-read koonfan's post and I could live with that being part of the backstory...the key is he respects their warrior skills not that he wants them. That to me would keep with his whole warrior mantra more than coveting their abilities.

 

Anyone who ever said that is FAIL.

MEGA. EPIC. FAIL.

 

Hey! I'm new here, but I've been with Grievous since his outset. He used to be a huge fandom for me, then tapered off, and now that the Clone Wars Series is going on I'm into him again.

In regards to the comments about this strange revised 'story' for Grievous, about him wanting to become a cyborg to gain power to match or exceed the Jedi. It's like decaying and evolving at the same time and it's total crap. Crap explaination for such a compelling villain.

I mean the original story explains why he is called General Grievous. With this new supposed story, why not just change his name to General Jealousy?

I far prefer the tragic story. Grievous is so rounded and a great character!

Hehe, that's my two cents^^

 

I have a backup, non-Star Wars "Sheela" character in case I completely loathe Grievous after the end of Clone Wars, or his backstory is never explored. Still, Grievous has an ingenious design, very much eye-candy.

I was dissappointed that in the latest episode, there were no scenes of direct interaction between Grievous and Padme. There's so much potential in an extended kidnapping...Grievous and Padme have many parallels, if you would care for me to elaborate. They were both young leaders of their planets, faced the villainry of the Trade Federation's greed in their earlier years, have stylish bodyguards, had to grow up fast to become leaders, wear headfins, met tragically anticlimactic ends in RotS etc...the only problem is that the creators don't seem to see this because Padme is femasle and Grievous (well, in canon anyway) is male.

 

I'm not really feeling the CW Grevious as much as I warmed up to the RotS Grevious. Int RotS he seemed much more unique, a little cooky, cowardly, cackling type evil. Now he is just constantly destroying droids and yelling. Seems to lack a little more depth. I also cannot tell whether or not he is coughing. In the movie his coughing was very prevalent and was sort of an interesting signature of his. But in the show I think I herd him sneeze once in 3 episodes? Am I the only one who has noticed this?

 

It IS set before RotS. The condition Grievous had was probably further aggravated by then.

 

He coughed a few times in Shadow of Malevolence...yes, he does yell alot and whacks battle droids but to me it's just good ol' Grievous: The intense, explosive frustrated anger he displayed in ROTS.

And I think he has depth here...when in Rising Malevolence Dooku tells him that he has to inform Sidious of his failure, the general just stands there speechless, telling me that thoughts were running through his cyborg brain as to what was to happen to him and when Dooku urged him to hurry to the rendevous point in this episode, he just cuts off the transmission as if he didn't care about Dooku's concerns. To me, that indicates something about his character than just a yelling, angry cyborg: he has issues that I don't think this kiddie version of his backstory will adequetly explain unfortunately.

Edit: did anyone notice how pleghmy(sp?) he sounded in this episode?...as if he was about to let out some nasty coughs. And did anyone notice if the Kaleesh symbol was on his cape? I thought I saw it, but I wasn't sure.

 

I was watching this episode with a bunch of non-to-semi-Star-Wars-fans, and throughout the whole show all they did was ask if there was anything in the EU about Grievous/Padme. Especially after that eye-staring contest they had. And the dialogue was REALLY suggestive. I'm not into "shipping" or whatever, but this episode could have definitely gone somewhere with that.

I really hope the two meet each other later on. If only to add something to their characters.

 

Oh gawd...must not...erk...control slipping...

Ah nutz, I can't resist. Barriss_Coffee, just for you and your pals and anyone besides who gets unhealthily off on Grievous, enjoy what follows. (The rest of you may want to bow out now and skip the rest of this post.)

'This corridor led into another grey, cold hall, and finally, they took a left turn and entered a small antechamber. Serenn (Dooku) turned to Padmé and gestured at a block at the edge of the otherwise empty room; ?Take a seat,? he said.

She countered with a brief scowl, but did as was told, and watched as the Count swept out of the room into the further chamber beyond. For several long and agonising minutes she sat alone in this void, her mind playing tricks on her, and her ears straining to pick up the slightest sound. She was so much on alert that the smallest noise made her jump and made her loathe to see the horror that Serenn had gone to find behind the door.

Finally, when Padmé was beginning to feel that she might drown in the flood of her own insecurities, the door opened, and Dooku stalked back through. He turned to Padmé, a sombre look on his face, and then, out from behind him, a creature just as tall, yet much more frightening, marched out and stood erect to his side.

Padmé involuntarily staggered to her feet, hugging the wall behind as this ?thing? set its eyes on her. Its yellow, reptilian pupils glared right through her and shook her to the core. This creature was the most dreadful thing she had ever seen, worse than any monster her imagination could ever have conjured; cloaked in a ghostly white, and looking out to her as though from a skull, it seemed the very embodiment of Death.

?Padmé, I would like to introduce my friend here to you,? Serenn said, closing the door and gesturing to the beast, ?This is General Grievous.?

The creature cocked its head in what Padmé took to be a salutation, its joints clicking into place as it moved. She could only swallow in return, astounded by the mere fact that it had both a name and a title.

?General Grievous,? Dooku went on, gesturing to Padmé now, ?This is Senator Amidala of Naboo. You have heard of her, no doubt??

The white spectre advanced on Padmé until he, it, or whatever it was, was within close range. Then, from beneath the folds of its flowing cloak, one that served to hide the body beneath more than anything, it extended a skeletal, metallic claw, and offered it to the senator; ?A pleasure, my lady,? he said.

It?s voice was terrible. It had the same affect as its eyes, sending a sensation through one as though it had scrutinized and inspected every facet of your very soul.

She felt her limbs shake as, little by little, she stretched out her hand in return and placed it into its cold palm. Its grip was vice-like as it closed its claws about her hand and gently shook it.'

--from the fan novel 'Eclipse' by Jurious

 

That's nice, but I think this is the place for more mainstream fans so they might not quite understand what some people are into in regards to Grievous.

I'm the type of fan who liked to explore alot of aspects of the character(ie. the backstory, 'what-ifs', etc.), although some like to explore various 'ships' that could occur...each fan is different.

 

The lastest episode: I wasn't too happy with how everyone got out of thier predicaments so easily. I wish that things could be more grim and adult-like, but ah well.

But the single greatest thing about that episode is when Grievous?s troops surround Obi-Wan and it seems that he is doomed. Then Grievous himself jumps down in front of Obi and greets him with a sinisterly charming, ?Hello there . . .?

Though the series may not be completely canon, could it be that Obi actually took this phrase from Grievous and threw it back at him in RotS? And then, maybe after Grievous?s death he coined it as his own. Maybe some of Grievous?s mannerisms attribute to Obi?s mannerisms?

How interesting is that?
Anyone else notice?

 

Heh heh, don't worry, Ludo. That excerpt goes absolutely nowhere afterwards insofar as any shipping goes. It's just the sort of thing which I can imagine some fans getting far more out of than is really intended, similar to what Barriss_Coffee experienced with her (his?) friends. That fan story's also historically interesting as one of the first to utilize the Grievous character back when he existed only in 2-d animated format and had absolutely NO backstory yet. I think it's a neat mark of how something about him has managed to really grab some fans--not all, but some--right from the start. I almost envy the people who are just now discovering Grievous as the intriguing and lovably hateful character he is. They're going to have a lot of fun going back and looking over all the different variants of him already officially (and unofficially) out there.