Official 'I Just Watched Episode III, And I *Need* To Talk About It' Thread

Discussion in 'Pittsburgh, PA' started by ben_ethus, May 19, 2005.

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  1. ben_ethus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 4
    Greetings, blokes.

    Here it is. The official new thread for discussion for folks after having seen the flick. I think it's obvious that there will be spoilers here, though I can't imagine anyone peeking at this without having seen the flick.

    But, yeah...

    Good movie. :D

    Head hits the keyboard,
    Yours Truly
  2. yatchie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2001
    star 1
    I went, I saw, I loved it!

    The visuals in this movie were great, not like the first 2 were the FX shot were obvious and looked bad. The acting was alot better this time around, which was needed considering the importance of this movie. There still was some campy scenes here and there but I can live with those. The action was awesome, especially the opening scenes. The lightsaber duels speak for themselves. The overall story wasn't too bad. It wasn't as good or as detailed as the book but if you made like the book it would have been a 3 hour movie (which would have been fine by me). It jumped around too much the first half of the movie and I couldn't get a feel for the flow of the movie. The second half was alot better, especiall when it was getting down to the nitty gritty.

    Overall I give it 3 1/2 out of 5 stars.

    Just my opinion
    Dan
  3. ben_ethus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 4
    Greetings, blokes.

    I need to see it a few more times before I can fully wrap my head around this one, but I do like how deliciously evil it is...

    --Kids getting killed.
    --Annie getting burnt to a crisp.
    --Domestic disputes via Force Choking. (Someone needs to do up an Anakin w/ Jedi Robes/wifebeater costume.) :p
    --Obi-Wan's intent to orphanize Luke and Leia, and just being all, "Sorry, lady" to Padme about it.
    --Palpatine.
    --Jedi getting cold-heartedly butchered.

    :D

    Seeing it again this evening,
    Yours Truly
  4. Shewski Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    Coming out of this one has been so different.... since it's and ending but also a beginning. I remember in AOTC and TPM that I was psyched to see *the* events in the films... Yoda's duel, Duel of the Fates etc.

    Sith is different... It is a much more... involving film than the other 2. Whereas I was looking to be entertained w/ the 1st 2, last night it was like a car accident. You knew what was going to happen, but you couldn't stop watching. I told Andy that my heart rate was up, not out of excitement really but more out of the tragedy and the building tension.

    I dunno... it tied much better than I expected to the OT, which I guess is due to my lowered expectations. It left some things dangling that would have been cool (but like Sal said, a lot was cut) to see.

  5. Death2JarJar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2005
    Saw the midnight viewing and am going to the first showing this afternoon. I thought it was great overall. Some questions answered like why the emperor's face gets all scrunchy and pale, I had thought it was that he had so much dark side power it messed him up, implied in the dark horse comics where he had clones made because his body kept deteriorating due to his power. Don't get me wrong, I loved this movie, but did anyone else think some of the other "loose ends" were tied up, well not so well? Like why C3P0 doesn't remember being made by a Skywalker- just a very quick thing at the end and the issue of Obi Wan disappearing and QuiGon being burnt. QuiGon makes it back, Yoda will teach ObiWan how to communicate with him. Uhm, if the living have to be taught how to communicate with those who have become one with the force, then who taught Luke to see and hear ObiWan? Also, didn't Leia in Jedi tell Luke she remembered very little about her mother, but she remembers her being very sad? The implication is that they are talking about Padme but how does that figure with the ending of Sith? Sorry, I am obsessive compulsive and think about all these details. I really did like this movie, just curious if anyone has any comments about this movie tieing things together.
  6. Phisherton Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    I was also at the midnight show, and my first chance after i get paid, tommorow i will go to see it again.
    I loved the battles, Palpy was very evil, and i loved it. "If the jedi kill me, nobody can save Padme" shiver

    Did the story he tell to Anikin was that about his master?

    I thought Yodi was gonna teach Obiwan to do what Quigon did and become immortal so to speak, but i may be wrong.

    Maybe what leia said could be something that Bail may have told her on Alderaan.

    They showed Obi take Anikin's saber, good.

    They buried Padme with "the kid" wondered how they were gonna hide it from vader when she told him straight out.

    Overall it was the best out of the Prequel trilogy, Hopefully George wises up and gives us 7,8,9. Cause it is hard to believe this is all coming to an end. Just like when LOTR ended and Friends ended, its a "well now what", situation. All the loose ends i had were answered, but then again i don't think too literal, so maybe u guys noticed even more stuff.

  7. Akar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2003
    star 1
    Damn you George Lucas. You took something away from me last night that I will never get back. I loved the series until last night. How can you glorify as a hero someone so evil? Killing kids? How tragic that this movie has sunk to the level of everything else.
  8. Fluke_Groundrunner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2001
    star 4
    Revenge of the Sith was great and even darker then I thought it was going to be. Some of things that Anakin did were just uncomfortable to watch, but still neccasary for his character. We needed to understand how the evil of the darkside had started to concume shim.

    I thought that Anakin's character development moved a little to quick, however. Perhaps more involvment with him and the Emperor in AOTC would have added to that developement.

    Now, to answer some questions:

    [/i]Like why C3P0 doesn't remember being made by a Skywalker- just a very quick thing at the end[/i]
    The mind wipe statement was quick, but I think it was clear enough to show us why 3PO didn't remember anything.

    and the issue of Obi Wan disappearing and QuiGon being burnt. QuiGon makes it back, Yoda will teach ObiWan how to communicate with him. Uhm, if the living have to be taught how to communicate with those who have become one with the force, then who taught Luke to see and hear ObiWan?
    I guess that it's possible that Yoda taught him. Perhaps Yoda new that Anakin IS still the one to bring balance to the Force but new that Luke would be the only chance to turn Vader back and destroy the Emperor in ROTJ.

    Also, didn't Leia in Jedi tell Luke she remembered very little about her mother, but she remembers her being very sad? The implication is that they are talking about Padme but how does that figure with the ending of Sith? Sorry,
    Leah was born before PAdme dies, I think, so I guess it's possonle that she remembers.

  9. BonMothma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2003
    star 4
    We had some great discussions over this at Steak N Shake last night.

    One thing that stuck in my mind: I think many of us guess that Palpatine is the sith apprentice who killed the sith (name?) who learned how to cheat death. But Zero suggested that that sith, who could manipulate midichlorians, is Anakin's "father."

    But because of the timeline, Palpatine should already have been the sith master with Maul as his apprentice, so maybe Palpatine is Anakin's "father" which means he was manipulating things from the very beginning of Anakin's conception.

    Creepy. Very creepy.
  10. ben_ethus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 4
    Greetings, blokes.

    Now *that's* a fun idea. :D

    I like,
    Yours Truly
  11. Death2JarJar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2005
    I caught that (Palpatine possibly being the "father") too. That was a great possible plot twist. "You're the sith lord!" "No Anakin, I am your father". I wasn't too crazy about the other 2 prequels, but in all of it I have to say Palpatine is an amazing evil genius, the way he played everyone from the beginning was brilliant. To think he orchastrated Anakin's birth too, wow. When he finds Anakin dying, he bends over him with what looks like compassion, rubbing his forehead. As ruthless as he is, that gave me another indication maybe that's what happened.
  12. MetalliJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 4
    What a great movie! The action sequenses were great for those of you who read the Clone wars comics a tie in with just one line"Commander Vos has moved our troops... To answer the question about the sith lord who could manipulate the midiclorians yes it was Palptie's master. I thought they handeled that a little better in the book. THe duel w/ Dooku was more involved in the book but the Anakin/obi-wan duel was handeled better in the movie. THe Yoa Sidous duel was more abstract in the book. THe possibility that Palatine manipulated things to have Anakin born is an interesting theory. AS to why Luke could see them in rotj can be simply stated as that was one of the things that he was taught by Yoda. I wish they would have left in the stuff with the Delegation of 2000, the start of the rebel alliance I felt was something necesary to show.
  13. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    Wow. I gotta give credit to Mr. Lucas. His last film in the Saga was just incredible. The begining of the film did an excellent job at showing the closeness between Obi and Anakin (something was was definitely lacking in AOTC). Palpy's seduction of Ani to the Dark Side, playing on all of Ani's fears. The fights scenes, the massacre of the Jedi, and the last scenes, with the rise of Vader and the babies being placed in their adoptive families. Just amazing. Like a classic Greek tragedy, where the hero is destroyed by a fatal flaw within himself.

    Although, I think the Qui reference came out of nowhere (the book did do it better -- I read the novel today). I missed seeing young Mon Mothma, its terrible that she and the start of the Rebellion didn't make the cut.


    After the movie, some of us went to get a snack and continue the discussion. Zero said that he had heard some folks in the media saying that parts of the movie were directed at critizing Bush. I really didn't see how, until I read the book. A lot of the focus is about giving up freedom and liberty for 'security.' Although I personally think that it wasn't a direct attack against Bush or his administration or the Patriot Act, just a general warning that freedom and democracy aren't easy, that to have them means having risk and investing some effort.

    Also, watching the Boga (riding lizard) and the treadwheel bike chase scene, reminded me again how Lucas keeps coming back to this theme of technology VS. Nature, his villians always taking the side of overwhelming technology. And yet, irony of ironies, Lucas keeps using technology to mess with his stories, often with terrible results.

    The book, by the way, is excellent. Stover did a great job getting inside the characters' heads to let us know what they were thinking during the action. I think about the novelizations of the original trilogy, which are not very well done. I wish that Lucas would do a special edition of the OT novelizations, getting good authors to do them, like the PT novels.

    I also went through the magazines I had piled up, that had spoilers in them. And, with great timing, the new Insider magazine came today. :)
  14. Hidai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2005
    I agree with all your comments. ROTS is an excellent and amazing movie. I just saw it for the second time.

    I still feel that the scene where anakin is getting burnt is really impressive, and it totally changed my perspective towards vader, now I feel sad for him.

    I also missed Mon Mothma and Boba Fett, well I thought he will be seen at least at some point.

    The theory about anakin's origin is really interesting, although I also was wondering, do you think that's true? the fact that a sith can create life, maybe it was another trick, another lie. Eitherway, I think that if Palpatine is anakin's 'father' then we must know that in the movie. Unfortunately there is no other movie to explain that.

    Another thing I don't understand is the quigon stuff. Did yoda tell obiwan that he will teach him to communicate with quigon? Then who teaches luke to see obiwan on hoth? Or that's because obiwan and yoda learned to fully materialize?

    And why anakin is able to do that? if nobody taught him? And why he is young?

    jose
  15. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    It was okay, I guess. I need to see it again before I crystalize my opinion. It felt rushed, it looked fake, and I felt very little chemistry between the characters.
  16. Dex1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 4
    He's young (now) because that was how he looked before he fully became Vader/evil.
    Waiting til the next time I see it but I think Mothma may have been in that group of senators that meets Anakin after the crash landing.
    Maybe Qui-Gon taught Obi how to make himself appear to Luke?

    I think many of us guess that Palpatine is the sith apprentice who killed the sith (name?) who learned how to cheat death.
    Since Plagueis was Palpy's master I'd say it's a safe bet he killed him. Sith is as Sith does :)

    the start of the rebel alliance I felt was something necesary to show.
    Yeah that would have been nice. And something for Tarkin to do as well!
    I wish George would take a hint from Peter Jackson and give us extended 3hr dvds :) :)
  17. ben_ethus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 4
    Greetings, blokes.

    Quix... Did you feel the same way about TPM and AOTC? The reason I ask is that the items you list are part of the stylistic hallmarks of the Prequel Trilogy, and although I submit that they do rear up in ROTS, they (to me) feel decidedly less egregious than in the prior installments.

    I was just curious as to how you rated TPM and AOTC in comparison to ROTS.

    Just curious,
    Yours Truly
  18. yatchie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2001
    star 1
    The questions concerning Palp and QuiGon were answered in the book.

    In the book Palp admitted to being Plageous's apprentice and I do also believe that he also admitted to have been taught everything Plageous knew. In the movie I do believe he knew this power. When he told Ani that together they can find the answer together, what I think he was doing was cementing or binding their fates together so that Ani had no other option but to save him. He was playing Ani like a piano. In the book was much more apperant that he was playing on Anikans emotions but I guess due to movie time comstraints alot had to be left out. I also think in the book Palpitine even admits to killing Plageuos. That's why I think in the movie you see that little grin on his face when he's talking about it.

    In the book Yoda was said to have been talking to QuiGon for some time or "for some time". During his "exile" after the Palpitine duel while meditating he finds the answers to why they couldn't detect the Sith and this is when QuiGon tells him about rejoining with the Force after death. When Yoda tells Obi about his trainning he even refers to QuiGon as his new master, which takes Obi by surprise. Again in the movie some of that dialoge had to be changed or cut out, therfore didn't give a clear answer.

    Just my thoughts

    Dan
  19. Shewski Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, I think the anti-Bush stuff is merely great coincidence that Lucas is playing up to get some more publicity for the new movie. Pretty slick on his part... but these are timeless themes he's dealing with so I'm sure when our grandkids watch this and President Whomever is in office they might see parallels as some do now.

    Like the idea about Palpy being a midi-manipulator. Don't know how it could happen, unless he did it and knew that some woman, some where would become impregnated by them and that the jedi (and he) would eventually find them.

    Lets talk prophecy. What does it mean to the sith??? What do we know of it?? Why would Palpy "make" an ultimate jedi? Could this have been his plan- to fool the jedi into thinking that Ani was the chosen one??? but Ani ended up actually being the chosen one (self fulfilling the prophecy)??

    It was a great tragedy, that could have been improved, but we've all beaten GL as a director and a dialogue guy to death already so lets skip that.

    Did any one else think it went really fast??? They were everywhere in this movie... it seems like AOTC was real slow and ROTS was real fast... maybe if they spread it out over ep2 and 3 it would have felt better paced (and they could have spread out Ani's turn, which is the complaint I see the most- that and palpys make up... ROTJ he looked so much better, much like puppet Jabba vs CG jabba)
  20. edog37 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    This one by far, was the best of the prequels. I would rate it 1a & 1b in comparison to Empire Strikes Back (not sure which is better, so hence the rating). That being said, a few things I noticed...

    1) What ever happened to Jedi compassion? It struck me rather oddly that even after Obi Wan literally took Anakin apart, he just sat there & watched him die very cruelly (or so he thought). They were best friends. At the very least, he should have gone over & put him out of his misery. What's he do instead? Takes his lightsaber & lets him be deep fried....

    2) There were two areas though where the cinematography could have been better. The first was the introduction of Vader into the suit. The teaser trailer had it best. Fade to black, have the whole "Lord Vader...rise" dialogue. This is Darth Vader we are talking about here. The baddest ass around. Give him the proper respect. Plus, what was up with his little hobbit dance while in anguish? Granted, he's learning to use the legs, but it looked a little comical. Also, I would have reeved up the destruction in the room upon learning that Padme died. Second part was the end. Don't have Owen & Beru sit there in the sunset staring. They are minor characters at best. I would have preferred having the end be the beginning of Episode 4. In other words, fade to the scene where Luke stands up on the dune staring at the suns. Have a caption below that reads "20 years later, a new hope emerges...". That would have tied that up rather nicely!! Having said, that, I like the whole Death Star being constructed scene. Especially with Tarkin looking on...

    3) Kudos to George for having Obi Wan say "uncivilized" after vaping Grievous with the blaster. That ties in beautifully with his monologue to Luke regarding the virtues of lightsabers vs blasters...

    4) I really thought it cool to show Vader being put in the suit. And it was really cool showing what Vader sees through the mask.

    5) I really hope that Episodes 7-9 ARE NOT made. Here's why: Star Wars is a tragedy about a father who makes bad decisions, but is later redeemed by his son. It's the story of Anakin, not Luke, not the Solo kids etc. It's about balancing the Force. Unless you want to do a second coming of Anakin, then Episodes 7-9 make no sense whatsoever....

    All in all, I really like this movie. It was a great send off present for us fans who used to read Bantha Tracks when we were kids...
  21. Phisherton Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    I think the reason Obi didn't finish Anakin off, is because he didn't have the heart to do it. He didn't want to fight Anakin, hence the one line where he says something along the lines, "i'll do what i have to" when anakin refuses to listen.

    Actually i have no idea. I'm not obiwan kenobi, so i don't know what he was thinking, lol.
  22. BonMothma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2003
    star 4
    edog37, interesting points. My comments from #5-#1

    5 - I agree there should be no 7-9. The important story has been told. Don't let SW become another Star Trek, dying a slow death.

    4 - No comment here, I'll save it for #2

    3 - I'm glad you pointed this out. I didn't get the "uncivilized" comment.

    2 - I liked the ending. It had to bring something positive out of the tragedy and I think it did it beautifully. It was nice to see a little bit of Aldreraan, too.

    As to Vader's rise, it was a bit odd, but I thought it was perhaps a tribute/reference to Frankenstein, as Vader is Palpatine's "creation."

    1 - Obi-Wan didn't kill Anakin because there would have been no reason for episodes 4-6 LOL!

    Seriously, I can understand how Obi-Wan could have left Anakin to die a horrible death even though it would have been humane to kill him quickly.

    Without going into a long story and getting too off-topic, I saw a kitten mauled by a rabid raccoon. My brother shot the kitten (the raccoon ran away). The kitten had been severely wounded, but even if he wasn't hurt, he'd been exposed to rabies.

    As I drove home I was crying - not just because of what happened, but because I knew I would not have been able to shoot that kitten, even though it was humane thing to do.

    How much harder would it have been to kill a human being?
  23. greencat336 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    I think Phisherton has it right as far as Obi killing Ani is concerned. Obi just couldn't bring himself to kill Ani, his 'brother' and best friend. Think about it, if Obi had the skill to take off both legs and his arm, he could have just as easily taken off Ani's head. (I'm doing this totally in universe, of course, ignoring the whole real world explanation of Vader appeared in three more movies :) ) Yes, leaving him to die slowly from burns isn't very nice, but remember Obi's anguished plea to Yoda about not making him go after Ani (lovely echo of Luke's plea about not being able to kill his own father) He just couldn't take that last step to actually kill his best friend, even knowing that Ani turned so far as to murder children and attack Padme.

    Of course, after twenty years of watching the horror Vader inflicted on the galaxy, Obi probably had regrets that he hadn't done so. Which may have contributed to his encouraging Luke to do what he himself couldn't do, kill Vader.

    As for the Qui-Gon business . . . In several books (Jedi Quest series, Dark Rendevous, Last of the Jedi series) Qui-Gon has spoken to Yoda and even Obi-Wan (who thought it was just his memories or subconsious sounding like his old master). Stubborn old Qui-Gon (isn't he adorable) just couldn't completely leave, so he figured out a way to keep hold of his individuality instead of becoming one with the Force. He teaches this to Yoda and also to Obi-Wan (this looks like it will be part of the Last of the Jedi series, based on what I read in the first book. Which I can't quote here because I lent it to my sister last night.)

    As to how Ani picked up the trick, my guess would be that Yoda, Obi and Qui were waiting around for him, so the moment his physical body died, they could assist in the transformation.

    So why don't we get blue ghostie Qui (sigh. I really thought we would get blue ghostie Qui in ROTS. I'm so disappointed.) Here's my theory. Qui figured out how to maintain a distinct personality after death, but never took the next step of being able to visually appear. After all, he could communicate with those he need to, so why worry about how he looked, especially when those he communicated with (Yoda) were themselves very much unconcerned with appearances. Obi-Wan, on the other hand, had to appear to Luke, who might have found it more believable that he was really chatting with dead Obi if he saw the blue ghostie, as opposed to just hearing voices in his head.


  24. Chris-Stacina_Rajinn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 4
    OK, so I am officially traumatized!! I saw ROTS for the 4th time last night and it still made me cry!!!! This movie has really been messing with my head. I mean, I have never sympathized with Anakin the way I did in this one. I mean, the way Palpatine was talking to him and messing with his head, I was just like, oh, that?s why he turns. It kinda freaks me out, I mean Anakin was the only Jedi left who truly embraced the Jedi way of life and then you?ve got Mace who was supposed be superjedi, and in a way it was his failure to trust in Anakin and follow the Jedi code that brought about the end of the republic. Then there?s the fact that the Jedi and the Sith are so similar! It really blurs the lines between good and evil. I mean, if only Sith deal in absolutes then how come Mace and Obi-Wan could honestly call Sidious evil? Evil is pretty absolute if you ask me. It?s not the Sith who deal in absolutes, it?s the darkside, and in times that are that dark it can cloud everyone?s judgment, including the Jedi. Thus, in dark times everyone deals in absolutes. Otherwise they wouldn?t be able to fight.

    But enough of my strange darkside ponderings. There are a few things that really got to me about this movie. One of those was the clones. They were like droids!!! That made me really mad! It?s like Sidious flipped a switch and suddenly they were on the other side. But they aren?t droids and they don?t have switches! They are people. People who were human enough to befriend the Jedi and be given names. I understand that they were programmed to be a certain way all of their lives, but still. THEY ARE NOT DROIDS!!!! I mean would it have killed Lucas to give them some redeeming qualities? Couldn?t Cody have at least had one moment where he regretted what he was about to do? I?m not saying that this ruined the movie for me, it just made getting through the purges even harder for me. I mean it?s bad enough that I should have to cry for the Jedi, but the fact that I have to get all worked up over the clone troopers too is just too much!

    Actually, the entire movie just makes me mad! The second time I saw it I started freaking out over Sidious saving Anakin/Vader. Couldn?t he have just let him die?? I was made at Obi-Wan too. They let that poor guy live!! It drives me nuts! But maybe that?s just me. All I know is that I can?t see Vader without get all teary-eyed anymore. He?s no longer the ultamit bad-ass villain for me, now he is just a sad and pathetic prisoner. Poor Ani :_|
  25. Phisherton Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    A note on the clones, they were bred to follow orders, withought emotions, basically driods that can think rationally and hypothetically. They were bred to follow palpatine, it was Dooku who ordered the clones, it was Dooku who most likely assisted in thier programming, or Sidious. The clones were just a cover up from the begining, they were always there to serve Palpy, they were given no emotion so thats why Cody had no regrets, he was doing as he was told, he was brainwashed so to speak. Why do you think Cloning is such a big issue, because it is possible to genetcially make a "obeditant robot", in a human body.
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