Pittsburgh, PA Official 'I Just Watched Episode III, And I *Need* To Talk About It' Thread

Discussion in 'NorthEast Regional Discussion' started by ben_ethus, May 19, 2005.

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  1. Chris-Stacina_Rajinn Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, I know that, but it still bothers me. I'm kind of crazy when it comes to clones in general and it always annoys me when clone stereotypes pop up in film. This one being that cloning is dangerous because you could breed an entire army of evil clones. That and the whole idea of them being able to be controlled like robots. So typical?*Sigh* So yeah, don?t mind me, I?m just nuts, there?s no help for it.

    Oh, and welcome to the boards, Phisherton!

    And everyone one else, for that matter. I love to see new members!
  2. ben_ethus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 4
    Greetings, blokes.

    Stacie... I like the new addition to your sig, by the way. heh heh... ;)

    Definitely not a clone,
    Yours Truly

    P.S. Speaking of clones, I find it amusing that one of the flicks they showed a trailer for (the Ewan flick) was "The Island," which as I suspected from watching the trailer is a remake of "Parts: The Clonus Horror (starring Peter Graves!)" which was prominently featured on MST3K. Go figure Michael Bay would remake an MST3K movie! [face_laugh]
  3. greencat336 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 5
    Stacie, I agree it has been annoying that almost everyone in the SW galaxy treats clones as if they were nothing more than droids (even our 'respect life in any form' Jedi. Except, it should be noted, Anakin, who is the first to encourage the clonetroopers to call themselves by names not numbers).

    However, in addition to being breed to be 'totally obedient,' the clones are also soldiers. In general, soldiers are supposed to obey orders without quesitons. The military isn't a democracy and, unless the order is directly violating the law, soldiers are expected to obey (there's specific rules about what to do if given what they believe is an unlawful order, but I can't recall them at the moment.)

    So, here are guys that are predisposed to unquestioning obedience, in a job where unquestioning obedience is expected. And the guy giving the order is the legal head of the government. (which I remind you is the same arguement you gave me to defend Ani)



    In the real world, a cloned person would be a person. A sentient being is a sentient being, regardless of how they are created. (which would divert nicely into whether some droids are sentient and therefore is it moral to treat them as nothing more than unthinking machines). At least, that would be the reasonable approach, but since many people can't even accept that other 'natural' borns are human (bigotry is sadly still very wide spread), its not suprising that many would be unable to accept the idea that origins are less important than sentience.
  4. skywalkerlady Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    According to the Book ROTS, Palpatine was the apprentice to the Sith Lord who could control the mitichlorians and "create life" -- or prevent death...what have you.

    As for Leia and her comments about her mother in ROTJ, My thought is that Bail's wife was also beautiful and possibly she died when Leia was very young as well.....She too could have been very sad (Mrs. Organa) due to the control of the Empire and the death of the Republic?

    Any thoughts?
  5. MetalliJedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 4
    Satacie you were talking about bluring the line between the light and dark. I like the philiosopy from the NJO there is no light side or dark side there is only the force. Those were only excuses used by the jedi/sith to do no good or evil. THe true light/dark side is in yourself. really makes you think
  6. edog37 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    In response to Chris, that's really the point here. It really is a story about choices & the consequences of those decisions. Anakin chose one path, while Luke chose another. Both were faced with incredible obstacles: Anakin tried to save Padme. Luke wanted to save his father. That is where the tragedy lies. Anakin really isn't all that different from any of us. While the consequences for our choices most likely won't be that extreme, it still shows how life will be effected by what we do.

    As far as the true nature of the Dark Side is concerned, read "I, Jedi". There, Corran Horn has a confrontation over Luke with regards to the Dark Side. Horn provides Luke with a view he probably never considered regarding the Dark Side: The movies have made out evil to be grandiose & large. In reality, it is much smaller, yet more pervasive in life. Horn worked CorSec & saw evil on a daily basis. He never strayed over the line even though he could of easily. While it is true that most of us will never go toe-to-toe with the devil, we sure has hell will face demons every day we live...as such the rest is up to us....
  7. edog37 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    I'm not sure if this is appropriate for me to post this here, but I'll let you all decide....

    As far as the new TV series is concerned, why is not based on Vader? I personally would love to see how Vader wrestles with his demons as he goes further & further into the Dark Side. There is almost 20 years of material here to work with & instead of that, it looks like we'll have to put up with some minor characters instead...sometimes, I really don't understand why Lucas thinks the way he does....
  8. BonMothma Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2003
    star 4
    Skywalkerlady, I agree that Leia must have been talking about the only "real" mother she'd ever known, even though that's not what Luke meant. Nothing else makes sense.

    Stacie, I agree with how you feel. I think that was the point of the movie - to make us feel some pity for Vader. It worked very well. :( Also very good comments about Anakin being the last one to really adhere to the Jedi code, and the dealing in absolutes thing.

    edog, also good points about the parallels between Luke's choices and Ankin's. Again, I think that was the point. Two people exposed to similar circumstances making different choices.

    Greencat, excellent comments about the military and why the clones would obey the orders without question. I am currently reading "The Silmarillion," and a fitting quote is, "Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel."

    I just love this group. Such intelligent discussion.
  9. MetalliJedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 4
    To answer the question about why not VAder for the TV show, that's an obvios answer $$$$ THey are not going to pay James EArl Jones the mloney he would want to voice Vader. That would through them way off budget. There is the possiblity of guest apearences. As far as watching him struggle w/ his deamons and fall further to the dark side that's what the books and comics are for.
  10. BonMothma Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2003
    star 4
    The TV show will be only a shadow of the real thing.

    I won't care if I can't get it on one of my 3 channels. ;)
  11. BonMothma Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2003
    star 4
    Oh, yeah, and one more thing about the clones. They were made more docile and less independent. Weak-minded and easily controlled by a sith lord.
  12. jedi_master_sal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 4
    I suspect vader may make an appearance from time to time. Mostly if the ratings aren't where they want them. They'll probably have a generic episode that won't neccessarily fit with the rest of the story that has Vader in it, so they can use it to bolster ratings if need be.

    Just a guess, but I'd do that for insurance against the show tanking quickly.

    I wouldn't mind seeing some episode concetrate on specific clones like Cody.

    Temura Morrison has done TV before, so it's not a stretch for him.

    Heck even if they did these as seperate episodes that were only loosely tied together, that would be fine with me. This way they could explore a larger part of the universe without having to follow just a few select characters.

    Doing that would give it a much grander scale.

    Again, just my opinion.
    -Sal
  13. Earthbound_Misfit Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2004
    star 1
    Hi everyone.

    Sorry to hijack the thread... but I just learned
    something that blows me away, and everyone else
    I talk to seems so 'ho-humm' about it...

    OK, so we were all that Loews together that Wed
    night last week... What did *YOU* hear Padme say?

    PADME: "So *this* is how DEMOCRACY dies..." -or-
    PADME: "So *this* is how LIBERTY dies..." -or-
    PADME: "So *this* is how FREEDOM dies..."

    Many many people (including *ME*) have confirmed
    the DEMOCRACY line and LIBERTY line, so
    we know that there are at least
    two different prints of ROTS floating around the
    US. The third quote ("FREEDOM") has been reported,
    but not yet confirmed.

    Personally, I did a viewing at Destinta this weekend,
    and I know I heard LIBERTY in that theater, and
    I know I heard DEMOCRACY at Loews.

    Does it excite anyone else that more editorial
    changes were made between different prints?

    What's everyones take on this? Is this a big
    deal to you? or a no-nevermind issue?

    Just wondering...
    -Dave

  14. ben_ethus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 4
    Greetings, blokes.

    I'm actually going to be seeing it in like two hours at the South Side, so I'll keep an ear out to see what she says. I saw my second viewing there, but didn't register any difference, but, of course I wasn't listening for it either.

    That's interesting that it would change like that.

    Weeeeird,
    Yours Truly
  15. Chris-Stacina_Rajinn Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 4
    Earthbound_Misfit, about the Padme line. That line really stood out for me and is now in fact my favorite Padme line altogether so I've actually listened carefully to it every time.

    It's "So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."

    I'm pretty sure that?s how I heard it at Loews, and Destinta in N Versailles, and Carmike 4 in Indiana.

    I really like that line! Ironically it's like the only good Padme line in the whole movie! Did anyone else notice what a horrible script Natalie had? She did a good job with it but she had some really awful lines. Kudos to her for actually being able to deliver them well! The only other line she had that I really liked was her last one about there still being good in Ani/Vader. That one made me cry?big surprise there?

    Oh, and this may have already been mentioned, but what was up with the costume that Padme wore on the official poster not being in the movie? There must be a lot of deleted scenes out there!
  16. Dex1138 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 4
    There are definately mulitple prints out there.
    Whether it's digital vs film I'm not sure.

    Saw DLP at a premiere, Aayla's demise is barely shown. The camera pans up over a freaky flower while she is getting shot.

    Saw in regular theater, Aayla is shown getting shot and falls to the ground with a blaster burn on her.
  17. edog37 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    I can't follow the money reasoning on having James Earl Jones. Lucas is a billionaire & undoubtedly this series will help to sell new merchandise. Plus, let's not forget that the triologies in 3D are coming out in a year or two, generating more coin in the bank.

    That all being said, I still fall back on the following: Star Wars is a story about Anakin. It's not a story about any other character & an attempt to do so will devalue the franchise. Remember the Ewok show...Need I say more? To quote Blue Leader: "Stay on Target".

    I understand that he is planning on turning the writing over to someone else. That was a wise move on his part because, let's face it, he is a terrible writer. Episodes 1 & 2 had little in the way of character development. He redeemed himself a lot in ROTS, however, the cheesy dialogue between Anakin & Padme was painful to watch.
  18. edog37 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    An interesting observation on the Padme quote. It was one of the better lines she said, however, I'm tired of the media making it out to be more than what it is. How cynical of a society have we become where we attribute every line spoken in a movie to a political jab? I am a conservative in my ideological leanings, but I also posses a degree of common sense. It's a science fiction movie for God sake!!
  19. MetalliJedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 4
    now you say that Star Wars is all about Anakin,What about All the EU stuff? most of that stuff has nothing to do with Anakin. I think if they do it right they won't need to have much Vader presence at all. the show could be about Luke and leia growing up. or aBout young Tarkin. There are a ton of possibilities out there that don't include vader much at all.
  20. BonMothma Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2003
    star 4
    I heard "democracy" in two different theatres.
  21. jedi_master_sal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 4
    I think I may have heard both. I've only seen it at the Waterfront (though many MANY times already)

    But I saw it in several of the theaters within Loews. I wonder if it's possible they got different prints for the same theater???

    That would be very odd indeed.
  22. edog37 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Metalli,
    I am referring to the original trilogy & the prequels. Yes, the EU has the adventures of Luke, New Jedi Order, etc., but always at the periphery, is the balance of the Light Side vs the Dark Side kept in. Why? Because of Anakin. That is why I say that the Star Wars universe revolves around Anakin.

    In fact, take a look at the New Jedi Order series. Luke can not fathom why the Yuuzhan Vong can't be felt in the Force. The answer is later revealed with the discovery of Zonoma Sekot. There is still the idea regarding this balance. Jaina Solo briefly goes over to the Dark Side. Kyp Durron was a self-proclaimed Dark Lord. This idea did not die out when Anakin died.

    Plus, also keep in mind that this new series occurs in the timeline when Anakin is Vader, so it strikes me as odd that he would ignored. Plus, now that we have additional knowledge on him & his fall, it would be entirely appropriate to continue this. Vader is a legend & a character who I feel has not been totally explored...hence my thoughts...
  23. MetalliJedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 4
    we will be exploring more of Anakin's decent but it won't be on the tv show it will be in the books and comics
  24. jedi_master_sal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 4
    Ah, nobody be so quick to point out what will or will not be in the TV series.

    There is a report today that the dude who played Armando in Queen of the damned has been talked to abou playing Anakin Skywalker in the new show.

    How can this happen you say?

    Well possibly as flashbacks to the Clone Wars.

    Of course that whole thing could get scrapped.

    I think it's WAY to early to even consider what's going to be in the TV show. Heck, we're just ONE week out from the premiere. We should still be talking about it, IMHO.

    -Sal
  25. jedi_master_sal Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 4
    So did everyone catch the Easter eggs in the movie?

    Here is a list of what I saw (if you have others, please list them as well):
    Millenium Falcon-seen at bottom middle right screen landing at the Senate Annex
    George Lucas-He "plays" Baron Papanoida and is seen standing just to the left of some doors at the Coruscant Opera House
    George's Daughter-She plays Chi Eekway-a blue skinned senator with a long red ruffled robe. She is seen twice. Once with George and the other before that in the "Palpatine Arrival" scene just after the crashlanding of Grievous's flagship
    Nick Galliard-Plays Jedi Master Cin Drallig-seen for just a brief second as a Jedi being cut down by Anakin in the holorecording that Obi-wan watches
    Mousy McCallum-Rick's Daughter seen in same scene as Galliard
    John Knoll-seen as an opera house patron. You can see him to the upper left of the screen during Palpatine's conversation with Anakin in teh opera house

    Those are the ones I can remember off-hand

    I do have one more. I'm not totally certain of it, but I think I see the visage of Vader in the water ripples of the water bubble during the opera scene. Only his masked head mind you. Maybe I'm looking to hard for stuff, but for a split second he seems to be visible.

    Okay, so what Easter eggs did you all see that's not listed above. (Please be specific as to what scene)

    -Sal
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