1. A Warning For Everyone To See:


    PT vs. OT vs. ST vs. Anthology (in any combination) debates are not allowed in the New Movies forums. Discussions that descend into OT/PT/ST/Anthology bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Consider this your warning.

Rogue One [Official Info] Vader in Rogue One

Discussion in 'Rogue One: A Star Wars Story' started by Charon Lefleur, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. moreorless12 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2016
    star 4
    I can kind of see what MotivateR5D4 is saying in that the Vader scene isn't really the key dramatic climax of the story in Rogue One. If you asked me for the most memorable scenes personally I would say the opening with Krennic finding Galen, the destruction of Jedha crosscut with Galens message and the climax on Scarf with Krennic being shot, the SD's crashing into the shield and the DS destroying the base in rapid sucession.

    Actually though I think that's also what makes the Vader scene so good, it realises that its a bit of a postscript to the main story of the film and pushing into a little link with ANH so it doesn't go TOO far. It would have been easy to extend it too much and go too over the top but they kept it relatively short, compact and brutally down to earth. Just trying to make "everything louder than everything else" tends to be a big fault with a lot of modern blockbusters for me.

    As Monk mentions I think its the perfect mix between the more complex action of the PT and the more direct brutality of the OT plus as he says its nice to see a Sith taking on normal people and the sense of power this displays.
    Last edited by moreorless12, Feb 12, 2017
    MotivateR5D4 and Gigoran Monk like this.
  2. Mostly Handless Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2017
    star 4
    It seems to me that Rogue One really ends when Jyn and Cassian die, and that the ending, while awesome, feels like a different movie altogether.

    For example, Rogue One in general, especially the Scarif sequences feels like a war movie, while the scene with Vader wrecking rebels in the corridor with the Death Star plans feels more like a horror movie. That said it was nice to see the 'more machine than man...twisted and evil' Vader that we've always known existed, but never seen on screen until now. [face_dancing]
  3. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 4
    I agree with you 100%. The Vader scene at the end is incredible. But there is so much good in this film, that it's not my favorite. The scenes you mention are also my tops. I'd also add the street scenes on Jedha and the Ring of Kafrene, Jyn's subtle little flashback, Chirrut's noble end, and perhaps my favorite: Raddus, with amazing emotion in his face, saying "Rogue One. May the force be with you." This film simply feels like a shard of deep galactic history come to life.
  4. Snax Rebo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2017
    star 4
    All 30-some minutes of the Battle of Scarif are some of the best Star Wars put on screen since the OT. I think this movie will seriously be considered on par with the trilogy in the coming years.
  5. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 4
    I'm with you. Though in some ways, I find the shadowy world of the first half of the film to be RO's most compelling stretch. It just feels like such a real place. And I love that characters don't know everything, as they do in a lot of blockbusters (due to poor scriptwriting). In other words, I appreciate the first chunk of the film for the same reasons some fans deride it: the characters don't know if there's a Death Star until pretty late into the thing, and the plot revolves around them both discovering that, AND discovering/ exposing who they are as human beings. And that murkiness is brilliantly reflected in the visuals. The settings, color tones, etc. It's Star Wars aporoaching the depth of Blade Runner, and I applaud that.

    That said, the Battle of Scarif is right there behind it. And Jyn delivers one of the best lines. "We'll take the next chance, and the next, on and on until we win, or the chances are spent."

    Basically, an old warrior's "victory isn't everything" speech. Ripped from an old norseman saga and placed in Star Wars.

    This film will age really well, and be placed next to ESB and ANH in the future. I'm sure of it.
    Last edited by Gigoran Monk, Feb 12, 2017
  6. moreorless12 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2016
    star 4
    Not sure the Vader attack feels that different in style to me, theres a good deal of atmosphere and brutality in the rest of the film plus the Death Star has a kind of evil monsterious presense to it as indeed does Vader himself.

    What I think does happen is that when Jyn and Cassian die theres a definite shift into a more detached "postscript" style, showing us events but not looking to focus on any individual drama. I think that works very well and means that those sceens don't undermine what comes before then but rather show the legacy of the main characters.
    Snax Rebo and Mostly Handless like this.
  7. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 4
    It's an extension of their belief/hope that someone is listening and we see the coda that someone is listening because they don't know for sure that Bodie got through or the shield went down.

    So it very much plays well going from ROTS to R1 then to ANH which while it doesn't fit in terms of texture with the previous two movies it can be seen as the start of the turnaround after the devastating events of ROTS and the start of the comeback from the regular citizens of the galaxy before the destined hero that Luke Skywalker is.

    Luke was never the everyman figure but Jyn is the representation of that now.

    She really is the "no one" that was someone along with the others.
    Last edited by Qui-Riv-Brid, Feb 12, 2017
  8. Mostly Handless Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2017
    star 4
    @moreorless12 I think 'postscript' it the right way to put it. For the record I wasn't unhappy with the way the movie ends, I really like it.
    Its just that the jump to more or less new characters (in the movie) such as Leia, Vader, the rebel soldiers on the Tantive IV ect. feel like a bit of an abrupt change from the Rogue One squad who we've spent the last two hours or so hanging out with.

    I do love Vader's corridor massacre though. =D=[face_devil]
  9. SateleNovelist11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2015
    star 4
    The way Vader stares into the camera at the end... [face_nail_biting]
    MotivateR5D4 and Mostly Handless like this.
  10. Azure_Angelus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2008
    star 1
    That scene was brilliant. In the OT, Vader always seemed somewhat ridiculous, mainly because of his clumsy movements. Yeah, I understand that choreography and effects weren't that great back in the day, but most of Vader's ability was simply implied, whereas here it was shown explicitly. You know when you go to see a play, and it's obvious that the set is exactly that; a set? You suspend your disbelief and ignore it, though. Well in R1, I didn't have to suspend my disbelief.

    The truly ridiculous thing, though, is the people who are getting butthurt because it makes Vader's action scenes in the OT look bad by comparison. I recall similar complaints on IMDB about the fights in the PT. Did these people really want to see a Vader who looks like a kid trying to hit a pinata again? I sure as hell didn't.
  11. PCCViking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2014
    star 9

    Some of Vader's movements can be taken into context: first, he was dueling Obi-Wan, not cutting down Rebel guards. He remembered how flashy his duel was last time and was more prone to be on the defensive. Call Vader a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. He learns from his mistakes.

    As for his duels with Luke, keep in mind that he's not trying to kill him, but to turn him to the dark side. The one time he attacked with pure fury was when Luke struck him on the shoulder. That would hurt and anger anyone.

    So, yes, his movements did seem "clumsy," but not unexpected given the context of the situations.
  12. B99 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2014
    star 5
    Could anyone tell if Vader had or didn't have eyebrows when he was lifted out of the tank?? Looks to me like he didn't..
    Last edited by B99, Feb 17, 2017
  13. moreorless12 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2016
    star 4
    I think the key though is that the film does not look to focus on the personal drama of any of the characters, theres a certain detachment in what we are seeing as a documentation of the events after the lead characters deaths.

    If for example the film had introduced the CG Leia rather earlier and had those last scenes focused on the drama of her personal efforts to escape with the plans I think that would have been much more distracting. As it is I think the film develops a certain emotional distance when the leads die that makes sure what follows doesn't take away from that climax.
    Last edited by moreorless12, Feb 17, 2017
    Snax Rebo and Jcuk like this.
  14. Snax Rebo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2017
    star 4
    Yep. RO had the ending it did to show that all hope wasn't lost, and to provide a "lead in" to ANH. The Vader scene was just icing on the cake.
    Mostly Handless likes this.
  15. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 5
    I've read a few times now, that some who watched the film felt some kind of disconnect with the ending. The truth as I see it, is that Rogue One was always going to be a film for the fans first and foremost. Fans who were fully aware going in that it was going to lead into ANH at the end. Vader had already been spoken of by Krennic to Tarkin, and he then took his bow on Mustafar. So he was involved and didn't just appear out of the blue at the end. Mon Mothma and Bail Organa were introduced early on. Fans know who these characters are and how they tie in. Especially Bail Organa and Mothma.
    "You're Jedi friend" "He served me well during the Clone Wars" "I trust her with my life (referencing Leia)"
    Any viewer sitting there puzzled by this dialogue just isn't a fan. Perhaps it seems the uninitiated, fully expected the credits to roll once the data download completed and Jyn and Kassian had had their final embrace *shrug*
    Mostly Handless likes this.
  16. themoth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2015
    star 4
    Also the way Vader stares down Krennic during their meeting earlier in the film. I'd be terrified too.
  17. Azure_Angelus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2008
    star 1
    It doesn't require all that justification. The issues were technical, plain and simple.
    Mostly Handless and La Calavera like this.
  18. HaloWithStyle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2015
    star 1
    I believe that every light saber duel in the prequels should've been dialed back to a lesser scale than that of the duel between Vader and ObiWan in ANH, therefore making it so that when people watch the films in chronological order the duel in ANH will be the most epic fight we've seen yet!
    Azure_Angelus likes this.
  19. GregMcP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2015
    star 4
    Nah.
    The New Hope duel should be reshot and hyped up.
    Vader and Obi fighting on a bridge over a bottomless chasm, while Force Throwing entire TIE fighters at each other and doing impossible flips and jumps. And Darth should have a TRIPLE bladed lightsaber. And... have I gotten carried away?

    There is a simple purity to that duel. The nature of other battles does not diminish it.
    Sarge and Mostly Handless like this.
  20. HaloWithStyle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2015
    star 1
    I was being serious.
    Last edited by HaloWithStyle, Feb 21, 2017
  21. DarthZ07 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 1
    A triple bladed helo-saber???
    ZY-Fighter likes this.
  22. GregMcP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2015
    star 4
    I know I was being silly, perhaps a bit rude. I'm sorry for that.
    The New Hope duel is perhaps the closest to what GL imagined. Two Samurai sparing. Simple, thoughtful, taking care with their strikes. There's a dignity and purity to it.

    But you can't force the other movies not to have their fun. Yoda bouncing about like an Energizer Bunny is the best bit of Attack of the Clones. That's the style of the Prequels.... Superhero acrobatic Jedi. I don't believe it diminishes New Hope at all. Different movies with different styles.

    (I probably haven't said anything convincing here.)
  23. HaloWithStyle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2015
    star 1
    I wasn't actually being serious lol, of course I wouldn't expect the prequel duels to be purposely made less exciting than the ANH one.
  24. MrMojoRisin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2005
    star 3
    Sorry if this has been asked before. I know that officially Spencer Wilding and Daniel Naprous both played Vader in Rogue One. I have read several times though that the scenes that Spencer Wilding were in were all cut. Does anyone know for sure who played Vader in what scenes?
  25. TCF-1138 New Films & Fan Films Mod from the Far North

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 5