**Official** Love Story discussion thread.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darth Dark Helmet, May 15, 2002.

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  1. darthsmozers Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 4
    Listen up. i just read the last full page of this thread, and the general reaction seems to be just as this quote as follows:

    "What bugs me is that the entire "rushed" nature of the romance could have easily been fixed by simply starting the film off with Anakin already assigned to "protection" duty - just say he'd been with her for a month or so."

    Now, don't get me wrong, but aren't things supposed to go badly for Anakin? Isn't he supposed to be tormented enough to make his fall to Darth vader believable? So, why is everyone demanding a believable, passionately romantic story for Anakin and Padme? Here's the breakdown as to why I believe it was portrayed the way it was, and some evidence to back it up:

    Anakin is arrogant...we know that from the very beginning. We also know from Anakin's very first scene that he is heavily obsessed with Padme...not "in love" with her, but obsessed....intoxicated! She is the only loving woman he has known since his mother, and after the battle of Naboo he hasn't seen her until now. Nor has he seen his mother. As he grew, his emotions for these two women were this: Mommy - Missing her, longing to see her again; Padme - she's his "Angel", remember? she's perfect to him. He doesn't love her...he WANTS her. This can easily be seen by how he comes onto her near the fireplace, as well as the fact that he doesn't say he loves her when she tells him she loves him on the execution cart. Even han and leia had their "i know" responses...anakin responded with "you love me?" like it was a shock, like he got what he wanted (he thinks obiwan always holds him back from his wants.) This and their near-death experience allows them to claim their affection in a "rushed" way.

    Another thing to notice is that when episode 1 came out, everyone asked how can anakin go from little boy to darth vader in two more episodes. well, in that one, he had to leave his mother and was involved in a large battle, plus the man who discovered him was killed. thats alot for a little boy to handle. In this one, there had to be more, hence the tension between he and obiwan, the tragic loss of his mother, padme's reluctance to admit any feelings for him, and their near execution. Now, we need something major to happen. Why doesn't it seem obvious to anyone else that this rushed relationship will not lead to a healthy lifestyle for the two? He's arogant, she's independent, then they suddenly wind up together. That can't end happily, especially seeing how he's killed a whole tribe of tuskens, and has the potential to let his anger get the best of him.

    My point is, don't let this "rushed" romance ruin the experience for you. Anakin has begu his fall, and the thing he holds most dear after his mother, is Padme. Now that they have a somewhat unstable relationship in full swing, that will also probably be a big key to his fall, whether she dies, or is hurt, or is unhappy, or whatever else will happen. I don't think it was accidental their relationship was portrayed this way, so maybe go see the movie again and look at how possesive Anakin is, see that he doesn't say he loves her, not once, and see that it isn't as bad as you think.

    Saw it twicew, going for third next week :)
  2. The_Reek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 1
    Its emotional, its real, its brilliant. The love story (and all of AOTC) that is.
  3. darth_pooh Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    I've got three words for you:

    What love story?


    The entire "romance" of this movie took place in one afternoon, and I couldn't believe Padme reciprocated in the arena.

    The Romance: This is the hardest thing to critique because I don't think anyone has gotten right what's wrong with it. There is something wrong with it.

    The girls with us in the group last night felt that it made sense. Or at least they accepted several of the scenes because they said they were so much like all other romance movies: not enough time, the guys wanting to get it on, pressure to have sex, leaving the girls no time to think...

    Besides they said: "all these romance movies are the same. They have these platicky scenes where everyone's hair is perfect and the sheets are all nicely laid out, and people sweat like mannequins, and the grass and the trees are perfectly green and blooming, it's spring time...i.e., 'all cliche' and not disturbing."

    These are the "expected", "ususal" romance scenes they said.

    Well, here's my beef: Lucas, you really could have cut out the stupid droid scenes and added in an extra five to ten minutes and slowed down the Romance!!!! ROMANCE TAKES TIME. (of course with all the sub-plots in the film, there's hardly enough time to do anything adequately!!!!)

    Anakin and Padme's "relationship" seems to span one afternoon at the most! And it really comes off looking like a young guy who really wants to ?get some action? by pressuring her! It makes it hard to believe Padme's reciprocation both then, and later in the film!

    How could she say after all those cheesy love lines that ?she loves him and that she has always completely loved him??ridiculous!
    Anakin looks like a skeezer and with the amount of time (about one minute in the movie) that Padme gets to think about his proposals and "over the top love monologues" and advances. You'd think that her initial reactions should be disgust, like: "put it back in your pants!"

    LUCAS: LOVE SCENES TAKE TIME and these two people didn't really have a relationship in the last movie to build on. You had to build it again, from scratch. But instead you ran off to play with your robots. If you wanted to tell a love story you had to start over!!!!


    Next time, GL, cut the "slapstick" scenes with Threepio's head on a droid, and put five more minutes into a romance scene to give it the correct pacing of real life love. Don't play slapstic when you destroy one of the Centerpieces of the movie - the romance - by cutting it down to ten minutes!


    All of us wanted something more subtle. That scene in the morning, where Anakin says that he wants her to stay (in the morning) because her presence "soothes" him is subtle and gets to his craziness and why she matters to him. That's probably the most romantic scene in the film! It works slowly.

    Their conversation after the Tusken Raider scene almost did more for the "romance" than the actual love scenes themselves.

    Romance takes time. It's not an Saturday afternoon Special. LOL ;)

    Where are people getting their conception of love today? From "how to books" with photographs by Santa Photographers?
  4. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
  5. KeithFranklin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 1998
    star 2
    Darth pooh,

    I find it very clear that the romance takes days not an afternoon.

    There is the travel day.

    There is the day which ends with the kiss.

    Next day is the picnic and the dinner/fireplace.

    Then they goto Tatooine. So figure another travel day.

    Two days in Tatooine and one day at Geonosis.

    It is also apparent that they came back to Coruscant before they headed to Naboo..

    Not to mention time that could have gone on that is not depicted in the movie. So I figure at a minimum it is about a week.
  6. GS335 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    Have you guys ever thought that Lucas is portraying this romance as something that is not healthy. Think about it, they both act impulsively and get married out of the blue. On top of that, Anakin has a lot of stuff going through him. You see in the beginning that he is too hung up on Padme, and it is going to send him down the wrong path. It was said a long time ago that Padme will play a huge part in Anakin's descent into the darkside. Padme is apart of what is going on in Anakin. The relationship is going to contribute to Anakin's fall, and it is portraying it as that.

    As for Anakin acting impulsively and arrogant...well, he is the future darth vader, so they have to show his faults. Anakin is just a regular guy in this film. His weaknesses are his impatience, arrogance, and his anger. He is a passionate kid, and that passion is what gets him into trouble. Luke was pretty much the same way in ESB, and you can see why Yoda said that Luke has much anger in him, like his father. Yoda and old Ben saw that Luke had a lot of his father in him, which is why they warned him about the darkside. He is just like many of us, as Lucas and co. said before. Typical 19-20 year old, impulsive, immature kid.
  7. jewlmc Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    I haven't SEEN it yet but I know the story so I think I can comment a BIT on it.

    First of all the ONLY thing I will say in comparison to H/L(I knew it was futile to ask not to compare) is that they CERTAINLY spend more time together. 3 years from ANH to ESB. They are already in love in the beggining of it and have yet to admit it. CLEARLY Leia doesn't want Han to leave for reasons he pegs her for.

    Now Anakin and Padme..haven't seen each other for TEN years..since they were kids and fall in love in a few weeks. I am not saying it isn't going to be believable..it IS fiction for crying out loud..but it certainly isn't more believable in that sense.

    And I am guessing by "Not carried far" you mean it isn't as "in depth". Well so what? So one is a sub plot(most stuff happens off screen) and the other is a main plot. That won't neccessarily make one better than the other.

    Personally I think they are too different to compare. Why bother? Why compare A/P to ANYTHING? Just discuss it in context. It seems like it will be good. At least IMO.
  8. gromek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2000

    The love story made me cringe a few times. It didn't ruin the movie for me, but at times I thought it was tough to watch.

    I think the biggest problem was the dialogue. Portman is a very good actress and even she had problems with it. I thought the looks Hayden gave her were pretty good. I thought that was OK.

    The whole thing was definately rushed, which would have been OK had the dialogue had more substance in it. The rolling in the grass was a little too much. The final scene before they are carted into the arena was the only nice and believable scene. The rest of the movie was great.
  9. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
  10. BLKNIGHT18 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2001
    star 4
    I think some people are missing what is going on in the love story.

    Anakin and Padme can't fall in love the way a normal boy and girl do. That's why you can't have something you would see in a normal teen romance like save the last dance or titanic or she's all that, etc.

    Anakin is a jedi that isn't supposed to fall in love ever. He should be able to contain his feelings but he can't, so he is forced to rush things, to take things fast. He IS pressuring. He knows in the back of his mind he shouldn't do this. This goes against all that he has been taught his whole life. But you know what? He doesn't care. There have only been 2 women that have meant something to him his entire life: Padme and Shmi, and they both were away from him for 10 years.

    He wants Padme so bad, so strong not just because of his love for her, but because he wants to possess her. GL has talked many times about this possession thing. In order to be a good Jedi and control the power you have, you have to give up the connections and possessions, feeling-wise, that we as normal people have. You can't have your "boys", your "girls", your "man", your "lady", none of that, because that will cloud your judgement and make you susceptible to using your powers for evil.

    Padme is kind of giving in to Anakin's advances. She has an attraction to him but is used to keeping herself under control. Anakin keeps pressuring her to lose control, and that in real life is something that many girls and guys give into. The concept of losing control and going with your emotions is something we look for. People may use that to define what being in love is all about.

    This is the heart of the issue with Anakin and Padme. Anakin isn't allowed to love this way because he isn't allowed to lose control, but he wants that with Padme, he wants them to lose control when it comes to each other, because he misses what he had with his mother. If you have a kid, you can relate to what I'm saying. Once that child is born, you realize that in a sense they own you from that day on. They will control every action and emotion that you have. Padme had a desire to lose control for once in her life too (it would have been better shown w/ her family scenes). This is why she is pushed to Anakin so fast and hard. Anakin is the first person to ask her to lose control. Her whole life has been about keeping herself in check, as a child queen and a young senator. Anakin is the first person to ask her to lose herself, and it's something that draws her in hard.
  11. PadmeJade Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    ok, i have a comment to all of those ppl who felt that the romance felt "rushed". first they were on coruscant. im not sure exactly how long, but it was at least two days. from the moment they saw each other, you could tell that there was attraction, even from padme, which is why she said "you'll always be the little boy i knew" (not responsible for incorrect quotes, im hyper and its 12:13 at night) then, after the attack, they may have been there even more, for anakin and obi to have spoken to the council, and palpatine, and for palpatine to have convinced padme to go back to naboo. then, they were on the transport. a day at least. probably more. it takes awhile to get across space, and i cant remember exactly how far away naboo is from coruscant. then, if you read the novel, you realize that they stay at her parents for a day. then they are at the lake house. that, at the very least, is the fifth day. anakin has spent the last TEN years obsessed with her, and she obviously remembered him. and was attracted to him. and they were spending practically all their time together in those 5 days. is it so unusual for two ppl who know each other, like each other, are attracted to each other, and, in this case, a bit obsessed with each other to kiss after 5 days? even if it were. this is star wars. a space fantasy. no one comments on how realistic the force is.
  12. obiwankepaulie Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    The main problem with the love story is you only see one side of it. You only see that Anakin is totally obsessed with Padme. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that. In fact, I think the idea that he is confusing love with obsession totally helps set up why he becomes Vader.

    You never understand why Padme tells Anakin she loves him. Nothing that happened in the courting scenes of the film gives the audience any indication of why she should. We, the audience, are left to fill in the blanks simply because we know the story. We know they're supposed to be in love, so we just accept it, even if the writing doesn't give reason to.

    The thing is, in order to set up his fall to become Vader, you have to make him troubled and haunted. Some women *are* attracted to men like that, even if they don't know why. The problem is, the script doesn't explore that Padme *is* attracted by that at all.

    Lucas dug himself into a hole with this. The love story is the big flaw of AOTC.

    It's not Hayden and Natalie's fault. They have good chemistry together; it's just that the script doesn't set up their love where you actually feel something.

    I only felt something for them as a couple during the very last shot of the film, and the only reason for that was because of my generalized knowledge of what is to come. It wasn't because the movie made me believe they were desperately in love with each other.

    PK




  13. SPP Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 1
    I genuinely enjoyed the love story, flaws and all. Hayden and Natalie completely sold me on their characters. I was especially impressed by the love pledge; the lines could have come off terribly, but instead, I thought they were moving.

    Most movies portray the lovers falling for each other over a very short period of time. Disney movies are very guilty of this -- the little mermaid only had three days to work her mojo, and that was with no voice! Plus, I understood Padme's snapping at Anakin as a movie convention that shows that she's attracted but fighting it. She wouldn't waste that much energy on someone she could care less about.
  14. CowMoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2001
    star 2
    I just want to re-echo BLKNIGHT18's comments. I do not have kids of my own, but I have at times wanted to loose control and instead of driving, sometimes I feel I want just to be a passanger once in a while.

    Padme probably did feel something for Anakin, perhaps if only that she doesn't have to bear all the burden by herself anymore. Love can take years, but in some cases, it could just takes minutes. Love at first sight, I suppose.
  15. Grizfan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    Was Padme pregnant at the end? It seemed to me that when they got married and you see Anakin's hand was sparking, she looked pregnant in her dress.
  16. TheFanDotNet Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    Know what I missed throughout the whole movie, and even more so between Anakin and Padme? Good Star Wars dialog. Why wasn't Anakin ever called a Nerf hearder? Not that that particular moniker should have been dubbed him, but call him something talk about the Star Wars universe. I think that Lucas is an awful writer. The plot was good, I like where he took the movie, but please please please George, let someone else write E3. Give them the plot to work with and surrender full control of dialog. And, in my opinion, and in the opinions of many people I know and viewed this movie with; Yoda should only talk like Yoda when saying something profound. ?Around them create a perimeter we must? doesn?t cut it.
    OUT
  17. JediDugan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 1
    I suggest you see the film a 2nd time.

    I really enjoyed the love story aspect of it a lot more without all of the jitters and excited nerves of seeing everything for the first time. In fact, I think you'll enjoy the movie generally better a 2nd or 3rd or 4th time around.

    It's pretty clear why Anakin wants/loves Padme.

    I think the reason she wants him is a similar unhealthy attraction, but in a different way. She see's him as a little boy in many ways (she says as much), she starts to feel more and more sad for him as the events in his life continually alienate and confuse him.

    So while Anakin's "love" is actually "lust" or "obsession". Padme's "love" is really pity.

    I think this is what GL intended.
  18. bright sith Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 1999
    star 5
    I think all of us get what is going on between the two of them. So when I say the scenes are rushed, I do not mean time in their world, but our world. The scenes are rushed. I can't recall who it was, but someone on the first page said something that I completely agree with: that the two lovers often speak in a matter of "topic sentences." It's "we need to get this across, and then that," but the scenes don't feel like full scenes by themselves.
  19. darth_pooh Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think so Dugan, ;)

    Someone who loves out of pity (like Graham Greene's characters) never say lines like Padme's at the arena: I have always loved you completely...or whatever to that effect.

    No way, we're meant to think she's in love like a normal person. That's what's so frightening. That's why the plot doesn't work. And that is why Lucas is going to have a crappy time on his hands in III.

    Anakin is far from dark: in this movie he's either responsible - or behaves like a decent brat, or he loses control in what I think (although unacceptable) is an understandable way for some slightly tense people (killing the tuskens - let's not get started on this though...I agreee NO women and children). Let's think about it: He only had his mother and they lived the life of SLAVES and he was bought freedom and LEFT her behind and this was her fate? Man, I pity Anakin and sense very little dark in him....So, LUCAS has yet to make anakin really dark.

    And 2. He has yet to make the love really come alive.

    I think Lucas will cop out. Instead of making Anakin's turning a moral choice...as it should be in a myth...he will show anakin as a vehicle - driven over the edge by circumstances. This is the perfectly modern way to think of criminals. No one has any responsibility - they just had broken, malnourished backgrounds...I think this will kill the series.
  20. Sketchmaster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    AndyTiger--the romance was rushed because of THE SITUATION. two desperate people fell in love in great part due to circumstance (TPM and AOTC). if the divorce rate is >40% today, what was it in a galaxy far far away....:)
  21. GS335 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    I guess Padme digs the *******s, eh ;)
  22. XR73627794 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2002
    star 4
    Uppers.



    GS335: With a sig like that, I wouldn't expect that kind of language, but hey, what do I know anyway? ;)
  23. Chewies_bandolier Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    star 4
    Can't Jedi (to some extent) foresee the future and if so, didn't Anakin always know that he'd end up with Padme?
  24. Bilton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 1
    What let the love story drop a bit was the SETTINGS.

    Can you say CLICHE?

    *2 Lovers at a meal

    *A fireside chat appears from nowhere.

    *The "it will never work" spiel.

    *Rolling in the grass together

    * The "chaste" woman denying the first kiss.

    *Admission of love before execution

    Come on George...how about using some of that incredible imagination of yours and coming up with innovative love scenes?
  25. GS335 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    Hey, nobody is perfect, XR :)
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