**Official** Love Story discussion thread.

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darth Dark Helmet, May 15, 2002.

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  1. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    The love story isn't as cheesy as Episode I.

    "Are you an Angel?"

    "I care for you deeply ani."


    What do you expect? A 9-year-old slave boy to compose Shakesperean sonnets on the spot for a 14-year-old girl he's just met?

    I think their TPM scenes are sweet. And Padme does care deeply for Ani. Why shouldn't she say so?
  2. QuiGonJinn84 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 1999
    star 2
    The interesting thing about the cut scenes is that Lucas took out all motive for Padme. Taking out the family scenes - where we outright learn that she has been spending all of her life helping others, rather then herself, is completely gone. This peice of information makes her love more believable - for the first time she is alone with a man who is completely head over heels for her.

    I would say that Lucas took it out for time constraints but then why wouldn't he add a simple line from Padme that sums up what the family scenes were meant to do.

    When Padme pledges her love, it is not done in a tearful 'Why didnt I tell you I loved you before because now we will die and I put a stop to what love we could have shared." way - but in a weak way. It is almost apologetically. Like she wants it and makes herself believe it more than is truly declaring it.

    I get the impression from the Naboo scenes that she grows enamored with him. By Tatooine they grow attached - she sees him through a dark time, and he doenst advance on it. Interestingly, Anakin backs off after Padme tells him no thanks in the dinner scene.

    The point is that there is a large jump from her feelings before Geonosis to true, deep love. You get the feeling, at least I did, that she says it because she wants to. After declaring it there is a great burden lifted - they have chemistry. Anakin saves her, she kisses him. A shared joke - aggressive negotiations. The hug she gives him after the battle.

    There is a love between them, but it arises out of the desire for both to have such a thing, not out of them being the perfect match.

    If they had a strong love then Anakin would be less vulnerable. This kind of flimsy love increases his obsession. If it were truer he would be more rational - and he is anything but rational. I'm not sure how it will play in Episode III - but I doubt that he will turn on Padme.

    How about this:

    Anakin and Padme are discovered and for much of the movie he is told by the Jedi that he must either give up Padme or give up being a Jedi. He will do neither, at some point he finally is taken away from Padme, knowing she is pregnant. He then hears through some misinformation that Padme and his unborn child were killed. He blames the Jedi - once again love brings him to the edge but this time its too much.
  3. GS335 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    The love story in this movie was a bit contrived and cheesy.

    However, most/all the love stories in the movies today are contrived. The love stories in Armegeddon and Pearl Harbor were extremely contrived and cheesy.
  4. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Actually, I think the absence of her family helps explain why she falls for Anakin. She's isolated, not really knowing human intimacy and contact, and when she encounters this guy who's literally willing to die for her, it floors her. She's never really been close with anyone before that.
  5. bleh19 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2001
    star 4
    You know what other movie had a contrived romance?

    The Matrix. It has the mother of all romantic cliches...a kiss brings him back to life. [face_puke]

    I really liked the romance for the most part. Pay attention to the body language in the fireside scene. It conveys everything you need to know.
  6. ozzelwasframed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    star 1
    I didn't like the romance part of the movie at first. Although I thought it was so well acted by Hayden and Natalie that if the dialogue was indeed cheesy, corny and cliched, I didn't notice. Excellent acting. But what I didn't like was that giant leap from "You'll always be the little boy I knew on Tatooine" to "I truly, deeply love you." Between these two statements, they had been through an awful lot, but just not enough for her to fall for him so, I thought. Too bad the scenes with Padme's family were cut, coz they may have helped the development of the romance.

    I've been thinking about it a lot since last Thursday, and I had an idea: Like mother, like daughter. In the OT, we see that Leia is attracted to the bad guy image, that of Han Solo. In ANH, there is an almost instant sexual tension, and you just knew these two would wind up together. (This was genious on Lucas' part, as he didn't know if ANH would do well enough to make the next two, but just in case I think he built the possibility of a Leia and Han relationship into the story. ) I think Padme falls for Anakin so quickly in much the same way. Anakin has that rebelious, bad guy image, too. But he's much more vulnerable and needy than Han was. Add the bad guy image, plus the whole vulnerability "my mom just died" thing, and voila! Instant romance. Simple.
  7. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    I agree, except it's almost a reverse. Anakin is a tragic figure who turns dark. Han is a bad guy who isn't as bad as he wants everyone to think, and it is largely thru/becuase Leia that he redeems himself and comes to the 'good' side as it were.
    There's is much more genuine love, as it developed over a long period, (much of it implied and off camera) starting as an attraction that develped in to friendship and then escalated in to more as Leia finally gave in to her feelings, once again while facing the death of a man she loved.

    One can help but wonder if part of the reason she fought her feelings so long, was because Bail and Co. would have impressed upon her to make sure she didnt' make the same mistake Padme made. Out of fear. I can see him as a father making sure that she was kept away from any situation that could lead to such an event. Thus as Luke relieves his father and "gets it right' Leia like wise relieves her mother and "gets it right". The whole thing is very parallel. Very literal.
    That is why Leia and Han don't rush off and do anything stupid, like getting married after a little over a week. That was one of Padme's mistakes.
  8. Ssorrol Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 2
    ok ive heard more than 50 people say that A/P had good chemistry and a couple say they didnt.





    just making a comment...
    :)











    *runs away embarrassed*
  9. jewlmc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    51....


    They had GREAT chemistry. It wasn't the same as H/L NOTHING save Anakin's "smoothness"(at times) was the same. But that is ok..you want different things not rip offs *COUGH* Asteroid chase *COUGH*

    It was good....my only complaint...the fireside scene was SOOO out of place and served to make Anakin look obsessive.

    Other than that it was well done. The love pledge was great.
  10. DarthChuck Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    Id like to first say that Im guy and I usually dont like the whole romance thing.
    However they (Natalie/Hayden) pulled it off with flying colors. I believed it and actually really enjoyed it. Go figure.

    to Jewlmc: please finish a mirror to the past, that story is really good. Thanks.
  11. Let_the_Wookiee_Win Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Not to compare the old trilogy to the prequels but - -

    I thought the love story was done fairly well, esp. considering Padme/Anakin had to fall in love and marry all in one movie as opposed to Han/Leia in the THREE movies. Sure, there were a couple of "corny" scenes (in my opinion) but in the end it worked for me. Anakin's love for Padme was totally believable to me. I only wish they showed more on why PADME fell so much in love with Anakin. I totally believed her when she confessed how she felt for him on Geonosis, but just one line or another scene from Padme on this point would have been greatly beneficial.
  12. Royal Jedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    A lot of people have said that what makes Padme's feelings for Anakin implausible is the fact that she knows about the Tusken slaughter. But I honestly don't feel this is a big deterrent. From a practical standpoint, does Padme even know what a Tusken really is? She's only been on Tatooine once before (TPM) and her ONLY possible exposure to Tuskens would be the announcer's mention of Tuskens shooting at the podracers, something unlikely to engender her sympathy for them when she knows they're shooting at an innocent little boy.


    So I don't buy the argument that she's "overlooking" Anakin's murders, because she still doesn't really know what the situation is about. She's heard Cliegg's description of them as vicious, mindless monsters, and she knows they tortured and killed Shmi. That's about it. She doesn't know what they look like, that they're humanoid, or that they're sentient. So she's kind of flying blind.....all she's really sure of is that Anakin's clearly in pain, and that naturally provokes her compassion. I think we're too quick to judge her as foolish - but we know way more about what happened than she does.

    Honestly, I felt the love story worked within the context of the film, though I would have slashed the fireplace scene or changed the dialogue there as much as possible. Everything else was fine, and I loved the final confession before the arena scene. Stunningly played - much more heartfelt, I thought, than Leia's quick "I love you" to Han. Natalie pulled that off beautifully, and the quick peck on Anakin's cheek after she lands on the reek was great, absolutely sealed the moment. But I'm really looking forward to the DVD; I hope that some of the scenes with her family that got cut will be there, because I still think those should've been included.





  13. IamZam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    jewlmc, I think that was the point. He is obsessed. He has been since the day she walked into Watto's shop. ITs just grown worse as he's grown older. She is going into it for other reasons also. Its part of what will lead his character's fall. Watch his face, and the way he nearly went to blows when she fell outof the transport. He's not "entirely stable".
  14. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    Though I thought it was troubled on paper, on-screen I actually liked the love story. A lot.

    To me, there are three key scenes that play into this:

    1. Anakin and Padme's dinner discussion aboard the freighter, particularly when Anakin defines compassion as unconditional love.

    2. The scene at the Lars table where Cliegg is telling Anakin what happened to Shmi. I think this is good cinematography as the camera cuts to Padme. I see compassion in her eyes for Anakin and what he is going through.

    3. The confession in the Lars garage. Padme demonstrates Anakin's definition of compassion by showing him an unconditional love as he has lost his mother, realizing that abandoning him at that moment (despite what he did to the Tuskens) might scar him even further.
  15. The Flying Dutchman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2000
    star 4
    I thought the lines weren't original but simpel, predictable - but not bad, not anything I had expected (that's a good thing).

    In the beginning I had a feeling the story lacked speed but other plots kept the speed going...

    Ohh and it's better then the 'Love story"in RotJ... :)
  16. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Saw the movie twice. I thought the love story was a perfect fit int this movie. Did not hurt it. Was not too cheesy or too over the top. But what love story is not cheesey?I really felt for these two knowing what is going to happen later. Her kissing him on the cheek at one point was sweet. Han and Leia would sneek a kiss or two in ESB and ROTJ. So it was fitting. Love story was fine IMHO.
  17. JediHPDrummer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2002
    star 3
    I loved this portion of the movie, it adds something to anakin and padme of course. And i think the fireplace scene was fine. Anakin did a great job acting it out, admit it. He put a lot of feeling and the dialogue was very poetic. Kind of like something Shakespeare wrote. WAtch the movie again and you know what im talking about. I loved it! I cant wait for the DVD!
  18. sabrecmc Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2002
    star 1
    BlkKnight18 said it much better than I could way back on page 2, but I think the whole point here is that this isn't a healthy relationship. It is part of what leads to Anakin's downfall. It can't be H/L about the "bad boy" going good for the love of the girl. Anakin is clearly obsessed with the idea of Padme. Does he really love her? Hard to say. He definitely has strong feelings for her, but I have a 19 year old brother that almost got married last year. Was that real love? He'd have said yes, but the rest of us certainly had our doubts.
    I think the part on Naboo where he talks about the sand being coarse and here with Padme being so soft is very telling. He has built her up to be this perfect, safe, beautiful place and he wants that. Its very interesting all the pressure he puts on her. We can see him trying to exert his will in several scenes while she tries to resist but we all know she'll give in because she wants to give up some control. The bane of some powerful women's existence is the desire to be out of control sometimes. Its intoxicating for her as well. I do wish the family scenes had been in there, but I think the part where she talks about being such a young queen and devoting her life to public service and being a senator when asked shows how structured her life is.
    Anyway, I really bought the love story, especially on the 2nd and 3rd viewings. Its not H/L but it can't be. Comparing A/P to other romances is pointless because in most romance movies, the guy and girl end up together! Here, the guy is going to start blowing up planets and the girl dies. This is not supposed to be the kind where they ride off into the castle in the clouds and live happily ever after.
  19. flutterby Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    I'm sorry, I promised myself I would just come on in here to see what the fans thought and zip back out again, but I can't keep my mouth shut about this point anymore.

    The simple fact about the love story was that the script was bad. The dialogue was cheesy and cringeworthy just a bit too often to be ignored, and it was poorly directed. It was obvious that what merit there was in the scenes was due solely to the talent of the actors themselves (in fact, I would go so far as saying that the love story was communicated only through the facial expressions and body language of the actors - the actual dialogue just ruined it and lowered it to soap-opera level).

    Chemistry: although I obviously place myself in the tiny minority on this board, I have to say that although the actors did their jobs pretty well, there just wasn't any chemistry for the most part. There may be a couple moments of exception (here I'm thinking the "you're making fun of me" moment, for example - I thought they were adorable and quite natural), but again the dialogue stunts whatever there is.
    Everyone tosses this word around, but 'chemistry' is much more than actors simply working well together - it's when they just seem to 'fit' together on screen (even in an unhealthy relationship as MANY have pointed out this is meant to be). It's when you're able to forget that they are actors, and begin to wonder what the characters say to each other in the moments we can't see them. It's when there's an almost visible electric spark between them when they look at each other.

    As someone already said, it's not easy to get on screen: in order to be powerful, the actors must be right, but so must the script, camera angles, lighting, etc... yeah, you get where I'm going. Even if the actors had 'chemistry' in the first place (which, despite the fact that they are both gorgeous, they didn't) it would have been killed by all that other stuff.

    You can try and justify the dialogue all you want, but in the end a love story well told shouldn't need any explanation. In spite of all these very reasonable explanations that people have come up with for the dialogue (they're young and inexperienced with love, it's not supposed to be a normal relationship, etc.), in my opinion the fact remains that the sentences are simply clunky and well ... ugly. They have none of the fresh spontaneity or cute clumsiness of youth, nor do they adequately display the (supposed) complexity of the characters' feelings for each other.

    To me, it's not that the scenes are rushed, or that they fall in love quickly that is the problem. It is just that the words (especially Anikin in the cosy fire scene - *shudder*) reek of daytime soaps and cliche.

    Anyway, it's not that big of a deal to me - I know it doesn't have to be Shakespeare or anything. It's adequate, I suppose, for plot purposes - they fall in love when they're not supposed to, we get the picture. But there was so much potential in the classic story, it could have been quite moving and might even have rivaled the special effects as the focus of the film. But, eh. What's done is done. As it is, it is merely annoying.

    All that really pains me about the whole thing is the way in which people are trying to find excuses for something there is just no excuse for, no matter how much you wanted to love the movie.
    The script was just not good. The action and special effects, and the whole look and feel of the film were, but the script was not. Sorry.
  20. Ded-Man Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 2
    I think Twink hit the nail on the head.

    I am going to write a long article about the romance, and also about why Padme stood by Anakin after the Tusken slaughter.

    First off, it was very important for Padme to still be there for him to reassure the children in the audience all was not lost. Fairy tales often deal with the loss of a parent, and abandonment is a very real fear for young children. Padme was what psychoanalysts have called a "safe base" for Anakin, showing that while loved ones die, there are still going to be other people who are going to care for them.

    Second off, Padme is all about grace and compassion. It derives from the sanskrit origins of her names, as have been discussed many times. Anakin never can quite save himself, as strong as he is. It's appropriate he called Padme an angel. He's had two saving angels in his life. One is his wife, and the other is his son Luke. And both are all about unconditional love, which is of course, irrational. Compassion and sympathy by their very nature have to be irrational. People get too hung up on the rational. The Empire was rational. Campbell even called the dark side the intellectual side.

    I'm pleased that many people thought the romance worked, since that was going to be the big deciding factor on this one.
  21. Anakin_Skywalker20 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2000
    star 5
    I agree. and what you said about Padme and Luke brought tears to my eyes... seriously...im okay. :) yea!! :)
  22. Twink_Kee Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2001
    star 5
    But you see, flutterby, this romance needs no explanation or excuses for me. I don't need any rationalization. I wasn't explaining why I thought it worked.

    I was explaining more than why I thought it worked; I was explaining why I liked it. I just think it's good without any excuses, and it basically boils down to the fact that you and I disagree on the dialogue.

    What you consider cheesy I consider to be heart-felt and poetic.

    It would be easy for me to sit here, and be a sheep, and say that the "pacing was bad", "the dialogue is bad", and your general template arguments. I've seen them before, and I agreed with much of them for TPM. But for this movie, I do not, because I believe there's a world of difference.

    Maybe the difference is that I just don't look at what's on paper anymore, but what comes together as a whole in the finished product. Because that is what it is all about. It is what the author envisions in his head, not just words on a page that will never be expressed.

    In fact, it seems to me that you are trying to make excuses as to why you think it didn't work.
  23. jewlmc Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 1999
    star 4
    Thanks for reminding me I will finish the chapter today and post it.


    Royal Jedi...Leia's "quick" 'I love you' to Han was perfectly in character. It wouldn't have been in character for her to go " I truely love you DEEPLY...." They were more action type people than wordy ones...for example their kiss in that scene...whoo hooo now THAT is how to kiss someone who is about to die possibly. Plus they really didn't have time to say all that. By the time Leia got through half of what Padme said Han would have been halfway down the carbon freeze chamber.

    So let's not compare them anymore. They are really just TOO different in many ways, and belittling one to raise the other is just pointless.
  24. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    They shouldn't have cut out the family scene with Natalie in the hot cut-off blue top! :)
    But other than that the romance was corny but enjoyable.
  25. GS335 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    I agree with Twink_Kee :). The love Padme has for Anakin is "true love," which is full of compassion and the unconditional love you are suppose to have for someone, regardless.

    Anakin on the other hand, has a selfish type of love. His love for his mother and his wife, and eventually for the darkside, is based on possession, and his attachments to them. These type of feelings is the main reason why Anakin falls to the darkside. That type of stuff makes one greedy, and greed is of the darkside.

    Luke, like his mother, had unconditional love for Anakin. He had compassion for his father, and Luke showed his father what true love really is. He believed in Anakin, and thought that he still had good in him (and was proven to be right, BTW). When Luke threw down his weapon, resisted the darkside, and said that "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" just spoke volumes of the compassion he had for his father. When he did that, he showed Anakin what true love really is, and this love is what ultimately redeemed Anakin. When Anakin saved his own son, he showed compassion, probably for the first time since he was a little boy. Compassion is what ultimately saves Anakin from darkness, and Luke saves Anakin from darkness.

    Even though the romance between Padme and Anakin will end horribly, there will be good to come from this romance. That good will be in the form of Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia.
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