**Official** Love Story discussion thread.

May the force be with them...always...

 

I thought the love story was half good/half bad. About half of it worked for me, and the other half fell flat. For example, I really liked the first kiss scene because, even though it was a bit out of the blue, we knew Anakin had been wanting to kiss her for a while by that point. Padme knew it, too. And even so, Anakin hesitates. The pause is just long enough to let us know that he's not 100% sure if she wants it or not. And sure enough, she's not sure about it either and cuts it short! This scene worked for me.

On the other hand, the kiss before the arena scene didn't work for me. After reading this entire thread, I've come to the conclusion that it's because we never know what Padme's feelings are until then. She doesn't flirt with Anakin at all, and only tries to discourage him from pursuing her. Knowing how everything ends, we knew she must be falling for him, but this wasn't really shown. That made the pledge seem kind of phony for me. Almost, as someone else said on the previous page, as if she's trying to convince herself as much as him. But needless to say, I don't think that's what Lucas was shooting for.

As far as the acting/chemistry goes, I thought it was kind of on again, off again. Not that this is entirely the fault of the actors. I suspect, with Natalie especially, that they were directed to be fairly emotionless. Not sure what George had in mind there...

It sounds to me like some of the cut scenes might have gone a long way towards developing Padme's side of the love story. Too bad they were cut. Perhaps they'll be on the DVD?

 

I thought Padme's "I love you" worked beautifully. Everything in that scene of hers worked perfectly, I thought. I take exception to people who thought she said that weakly. You could hear the emotional undercurrent in her voice. She looks like a woman who's made her peace with whatever happens, but wants to make sure that Anakin knows how she feels. She's not weepy or melodramatic. She's true to herself.

 

I think Padme's confession of love to Anakin was not only the best scene in AOTC, but one of the best in the saga so far. I wish I had found the rest of her performance to be as good.

Without wildly exaggerating, I will say that I think her revelation is better than Leia's to Han in TESB - at least the delivery of it.

 

Reiterating and adding to what Royal Jedi said about the "Tusken Raiders and the massacre".

Padme has only heard terrible things about the Tusken Raiders.

They steal Anakin's mother.
They shoot at innocent podrace racers (Well theoretically innocent).
A rescue party of 30 men goes to save Shmi and 26 are killed (Listen to Klieg Lars).
They are described as monsters. Although they have a similiar shape to humans they are primitive savage beasts in every way this is how they are described.

Other reason that Padme is now drawn to Anakin is that he shows such devotion to his mother (Women like this...Big time...They dont like a mamas boy but they love a man who is devoted to his mother). He also expresses a incredible amount of regret for his action against the Tusken Raiders.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with KnightWriter and Vaders_leash. Padme knew what was about to happen, yet she was "not afraid to die." You can see the pain and sadness in her eyes, and you can hear it in her voice. But, somehow, she still manages to be so peaceful and calm that you know she has accepted her fate. And I think the dialogue here is perfect. It is one of my favorite scenes.

The reason she says "...and before we die, I want you to know" is because she has known she loves Anakin for quite some time. This isn't a new revelation to her. She had been pushing him away, despite her true feelings for him, for the reasons she explained. Now, when they're about to be led to to their death, she must tell him how she truly feels. I think it's beautiful.

As for the Tusken confession scene...this, is by far, my favorite scene in the film. We see all aspects of our young Vader's emotions: love, hate, pain, compassion, sadness, remorse, regret, anger... And through it all, Padme is able to see Anakin's true character. She knows that he is, in reality, a good man. He wants the best for everyone, he just doesn't know how to react to things, and he can't handle not having complete control. Why would she possibly abandon him at this point? She knows the pain he's feeling. She understands his anger. Like it was said, the Tuskens aren't exactly sweet and innocent. She knows this.

Not only does this scene do an excellent job of showing us the dark side in Anakin, it also shows how strong Anakin & Padme's connection is and how much they love each other. I think it was one of the most perfectly done scenes in movie history. However, I really wish they would not have deleted the extension to this scene. Seeing her tell him that he's only human would have been a nice touch.

 

Up .

 

Sure Padme's speech was better delivered....then again Leia didn't give a speech. She just said simply that she loved Han. It was enough for the situation and frankly I grow tired of the constant comparisons.

So much for not comparing.

 

Anakin loved her, he conveyed that very well in the time alloted in the movie i thought. It touched me!

 

I agree with so much of what was said. Yes, the dialouge was cheesy, yes the story was rushed, and yes it worked for me.

If you read Harry Knowles final film review on aintitcool.com, I think he hit the nail on the head(it happens, not often, but it happens). These are two young kids who are trying to figure out exactly what being in love means. That explains the cheesy dialouge, and the rush to get married.

But one moment made the entire romance for me. When Anakin saves Padme in the arena by riding the Reek, and she drops onto the reek, and there is that little kiss. I dont what it is about that moment that seals the deal for me. There is something desperatly innocent about it. At that point they were a couple, definately my favorite non-Yoda moment of the movie.

 

I have a confession to make. I've been trying to defend the love story, saying that we arent supposed to believe fully that Padme loves Anakin, that we are supposed to think that she wants to love him etc. But I don't know. I have to see it one more time before I decide - but I just don't believe that Padme loves him. Sure she gives a lot of looks that convey she is feeling something but it takes a lot to go from those looks to just 'I truly, deeply love you."

I think I was trying to convince myself otherwise - but reading the script just now, you see that Padme's reasons WERE developed. We find that she was longing for a family, that she was never with anyone, and even she makes a few moves to kiss Anakin. For some reason Lucas took it out - I'd like to think it is for some unknown reason to me - because all of the things he took out concerning the love story had to do with Padme's motives. But part of me tells me that those scenes were cut to make the movie 'faster and more intense'.

Again, I must see it one more time. The first time I watched I really just held my breath at all of the love scenes - because I feared how they would come across. Upon repeated viewings I liked them, but I wasnt sure if it came together. I get the feeling after the pledge that the two love each other - the kiss on the reek, the inside joke of 'agressive negotiations', the hug Padme gives Anakin. Yet upon repeated viewing something happens to me around the point where they get to Tatooine and Obi-Wan to Geonosis that just takes me out of the movie. Perhaps, and I hope this is the reason, it is that I just saw the movie too many times in one weekend (5 times in 4 days that is.)

But I will see it one more time to see if Padme's looks are enough for me - if it is enough to give me this feeling that she is enamored with him, but is holding back.

I mean we can argue what she is thinking and try to explain it all we want but unless you feel that she truly, deeply loves him (or at least more than just likes him) then no arguing will make those scenes all right for you. As it is I feel that there needs to be some sort of intermediary scene between the conveyor belt capture and the love pledge - because you go from action to drama way too quickly. But if I believe her confession than I would have less of a problem. The problem is that the confession just seems out of nowhere. I think it is really well acted and a beautiful scene - but if I don't believe that she loves him, if I dont believe that she is confessing a true love that she was trying to quell - well than that scene just doesnt work.

So I'm taking this week off from Attack of the Clones. I will go back on Saturday night and that will be the viewing of truth for me. Because if I do not believe that Padme loves Anakin, then that is just a fatal flaw with the movie for me - you guys who already believe it, I envy you.

The thing that torments me is that I love these characters. I found myself connecting to Anakin and Padme in a way that I havent since watching Luke, Leia and Han for the first time. But without this belief that the two love eachother the film just doesnt work. I could care less about great action and thrilling scenes, I really could. I watch these movies because I love the characters and Im interested in their story.

Does anyone else feel the same? Did you at one point not believe Padme's feelings and then did you see the movie again and have a change of heart?

 

I definitly agree. I believed Padme's feelings the first time through, ( I was in awe of the movie at the first viewing ) but the second time seeing the movie it was a lot less belivable. I loved both Hayden and Natalie's performances as a whole, but the love part is still a little iffy. Maybe I should see it a few more times. :-}

 

QGJ84, I have to agree. I totally believed Padme's confession but I didn't see any 'backbone' to it. It was a beautiful scene, but it came out of nowhere. Lucas spent so much time showing Anakin's feelings that he sort of just ignored Padme's POV. And all I needed to hear was one more line or just one more scene pertaining to her feelings for Anakin. I have my own theory on why Padme would fall in love, but that's just it. I shouldn't have to come up with my own theory. I wanted to see it for myself on the screen. Or maybe that's just me.
That being said, I too still love this movie. It was great and it's sad that there's only one more left in the series. It'll be here before we know it.

 

Sorry Anakin I was there first. Maybe that is why she was so gun shy. Liquor her up a little and watch the sparks fly. Maybe I am Lukes father. I hope this doesnt end up on Jerry Springer.

 

The love story made the movie. It's what makes you identify with the characters. We've all known that girl who we really dug from grade school who we see again and can't believe our eyes. It's completely believable that Anakin would fall for her all over again. Your first love, whether it be true love or puppy love, stays with you forever. Give it a chance to flourish, like on Naboo, and I don't know many people who could resist it.

Corny dialogue? Give me a break! It was exactly as it should have been. Totally unrehearsed, straight from the heart emotion.

Hayden and Natalie were ridiculous awesome together on screen. Quite possibly the best chemistry I've seen between two people in a movie. If their performances don't make you wish you were in love like they are, you are emotionally impaired.

 

Firstly, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking your posts, specifically, Twink_Kee - I wasn't, honestly. (It just seemed like you were taking it a bit personally).I agree with the last two of the three "key scenes" you mentioned, but to me the effectiveness of these scenes comes entirely from the non-verbal actions of the actors.

It's true that the dialogue is a matter of personal taste and it would be pointless to argue about it further.

But I don't think it's fair of you to imply that I did not take into account the film as a whole (if that is indeed what you were saying - if not, just ignore the rest of this post). As a whole, I thought the film was visually and conceptually beautiful. And as I said, overall, I thought the love story was adequate as it fit into the rest of the film and the series (in other words, for me it did work - but only just).
The main point in my last post (which I admit was a little harsh and rash - just a little disappointed, especially since they played up the 'love story' angle so much in th publicity) was that I thought the dialogue and lack of chemistry (which they can't really be blamed for anyway) turned what could have been an evocative, moving focal point of the movie into something that was simply 'okay' - predictable and cliched, which quickly faded into the background.

As I consider the actual substance of conversations (i.e. dialogue) to be the support on which everything in a scene rests, by my usual standards this should have been a complete disaster. But it wasn't, it was alright - enough to communicate the basics, anyway. This save I put down solely to the intuitive facial expressions and gestures of the actors, the 'feel' of the film (created through visual effects, sets, etc.) and something I forgot to mention before: the score, which, as with all SW, absolutely blew me away (in particular Padme and Ani's theme). But definitely not the script, nor that ubiquitous word, 'chemistry'.

So it looks like in trying to reconcile my opinion that the script was bad with the fact that somehow the love story was adequate in the end, I'm doing for the love story as a whole what I chastised others for trying to do with the dialogue specifically - finding excuses for why it worked. Such is the life of a hypocrite. (Though at least I'm pointing to concrete things that can be seen and heard, as opposed to some who base their reasoning on hypothetical analyses of what the characters emotions should be, what they're thinking etc. This is what the script should have achieved - I'm not criticising anyone in particular, so please don't get offended).

Anyway, I'm glad you liked it, Twink_Kee, but I'm sorry you think that those who believe "the dialogue is bad" (me) or "the pacing was bad" (not me) are sheep simply because these are common critcisms of films and in your view they do not apply in this case. I guess I must be a sheep, then, though they seem to be the exception rather than the rule on this board.

P.S. So much time and space, such a twisted, confused little point. I must really be turning into fan, after all....

 

Why is Akakin's love forbidden in Episode 2 but Lukes love is embraces to mara in EU

 

Understood, flutterby. Really, I wasn't originally sure who you were referring to. No harm meant.

But I don't think it's fair of you to imply that I did not take into account the film as a whole

I didn't mean that. I just know that, if I watch a film and don't enjoy it, I have to ask myself why I didn't enjoy it. Like I said before, I thought the script read poorly (then again, I think all movie scripts read poorly). But I also believe that somewhere between the transition from script to final product, it came out well. To me, lines that I thought were bad in the script, came out well in the film. Now, I don't know if that was Lucas' work or the work of the actors. Quite frankly, I don't care because I'm satisfied with the finished product.

For example, one line in particular that I thought was bad in the script:

"He had dreamy eyes."

I thought that was awful. But when Natalie delivered it on screen, it didn't sound to me like she was reminiscing like some love-struck teenager. It sounded to me as if she were teasing Anakin, thanks to voice inflection and the context of the scene (which included Anakin's "Alright, that's enough" reply). And I thinked it worked well.

As far as chemistry goes, I can't agree with you on that aspect. Once more, that's a matter of personal opinion. But I felt that Hayden and Natalie had a good chemistry, and it showed in their body language and expression of the dialogue. I don't expect witty, groundbreaking dialoge in a romantic story. I just expect something that seems honest, heartfelt and sincere when expressed. And I got that with this story.

Anyway, I'm glad you liked it, Twink_Kee, but I'm sorry you think that those who believe "the dialogue is bad" (me) or "the pacing was bad" (not me) are sheep simply because these are common critcisms of films and in your view they do not apply in this case.

That wasn't meant to be a personal insult at you. Truthfully, I see too many people make these claims without providing any rationalization as to why they feel that way, and I feel like they're just saying that to hand out a quasi-popular critic. I think you've given your argument well, unlike most who make this generalized arguments. I still don't agree with you, but that's a matter of personal opinion.

 

*sigh* Yup. Personal opinion. Agree to disagree, truce, etc.

(I love these resolutions. They get me out of all sorts of trouble )

But it seems we're saying kind of the same thing in parts anyway - the delivery of the lines somehow got the story there. We only differ in how effective it was overall - I thought the manner in which the actors delivered the lines prevented a horrible script from ruining this particular sub-plot (lifted it from terrible to okay), for you it was the x-factor that made it really touching (lifted it from okay or so-so to great).

Eh. You say pot-ay-to.

 

Up.

 

I absolutely believed that she was falling for him the whole time. Here's why:

1. Most importantly, I think she subconciously knows that this is her ultimate ~*destiny*~ - not to be Queen, not to be a senator, but to be with Anakin (not to mention have Luke & Leia and ultimately restore peace and harmony to the galaxy). Kind of ironic, isn't it? All that time she devoted to being a public servant didn't really change things - it's only when she decides to do something very personal and completely unrelated to gov't that she achieves her goal.

2. Try to tell me you haven't been in this situation before: Girl is pursued by intriguing (take that however you want) guy. She is not keen on the idea of them being together for whatever reason (but come on, she IS subconciously attracted to him). She plays the "I don't like you that way, but I'm still going to look really hot and spend lots of time with you" game. Guy pursues even harder. Girl finally tells guy to back off, but still hints (involuntarily) that she is attracted to him. He does. Girl almost instantaneously owns up to her feelings and totally falls for him. I know I've been there on more than one occasion (my boyfriend can attest to that!)

So when she blurts out (rather poetically, and very emotionally) that she's completely in love with him, I think, "yeah, that sounds about right." Plus, those initial confessions of feelings are often quite dramatic (especially if you're in a situation where you think you're about to die).

 

Wow, I have to say Twink hit the nail on the head when he talked about people taking quasi-critics ramblings and putting them out there to make themselves sound knowledgable. I really believe that half the people who say the "dialogue sucks" or "the love story is unbelievable" are not coming to that conclusion on their own. I believe that going into a Star Wars movie, they already have their minds made up that the romance isn't going to work that by the time they get there it really doesn't work for them. But wait? I guarantee you that all these critics think that Titanic has a great romance. They can accept the fact that Jack and Rose fell for each other in A DAY but can't accept that within a week Padme and Anakin love each other. Let's take this blow by blow:

-Anakin has loved Padme ever since he met her, ten years ago. He's "thought about her everyday." When talking to her, he talks of unconditional love, definitely giving hints of his feelings to her. However, he cannot fully express himself because he's never really had female contact since he left his mother 10 years ago, and certainly has never been able to woo another girl over romantically, so of course he's gonna say some things that may sound awkward.

-Padme has had one boyfriend (when she was 12 for god's sake!). She does not know how to act around boys, she's never been involved with one romantically. All her life has been politics (i.e. backstabbing, greedy men and women who do anything to get what they desire). So when Anakin does stupid things that would seem childish and insignificant to other girls, it comes off as charming and endearing to her.

-Padme is around people all day every day of her life who lie and connive to get their ways. Anakin is a breath of fresh air. A brash, headstrong youth who makes no bull about his feelings. His constant love for her is what will eventually win her over, and it chips away at her resolve ("been dying a bit since you came back into my life").

-Anakin's confession to Padme is heartwrenching to her because she sees how truthful he is, how much she really means to him. This contrasts with the way most other men (the politicians) see her, which is a means to their own gains. You can see Padme almost giving in until she realizes what the implications would mean. *Then* she decides that it's not their feelings for each other that prevent the romance, it's one or the other throwing their futures away for those feelings. So, what this means is, she doesn't all of the sudden "fall in love with him at the end," she's been in love with him since that day in the meadow and that night around the fire. She just didn't want to cause any kind of turmoil in their lives, so she put those feelings away to save both her and Anakin. But as they're about to die, she realizes that she wants Anakin to know about how she's felt all along. So she tells him. This isn't a sudden thing. We see it coming the whole movie. It's not bad writing, and the performances are great, so after reading all this, my question to all those who think the romance is bad is this: what the hell do you have a problem with?

 

I just saw the movie for the second time (still loved it) and was really bothered not by the love story but the reaction of other audience members TO the love story. Every time either Padme or Anakin said anything romantic, people started laughing, saying stuff like "oh come on!" and generally being very disruptive and in my opinion, rude.

The reason this bothers me is, I really liked the love story and felt that their reactions were getting in the way of me paying attention to the movie. Sure, the love story is a little cheesy, but overall I thought it added much emotional resonance to the film.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic (like George Lucas has admitted to being), but the audience being so cynical and judgemental of the relationship was disturbing to me. I think people weren't willing to let their guard down a little bit and get enveloped in it.

Here are my defenses of the love story and it's occasional "cheesiness" as some people would call it:

1. These lovers are really young, basically teenagers. Anakin is 19. Padme is maybe 25. Neither probably have had a whole LOT of relationship "experience". When you're 19, let's face it, you're not that smooth. You don't act the same way you do when you're in love at 30, 40, or 70 years old. Their love is supposed to be young, awkward, quite irrational, and as a result they do say and do things that don't make a whole lot of sense to a detatched outside viewer.

2. Anakin is a confused person. He's a deeply troubled character torn between loyalty to his Jedi calling yet still missing his mother, without a father, and in need of someone to be close to in a world that is very empty to him. No wonder he is obsessed with Padme. We cannot expect (nor would we want) Anakin to be a smooth-talking Tom Cruise-esque ladies man brimming with slickness and confidence. He's imperfect and vulnerable. I liked that.

3. Love itself is not rational, doesn't make much sense, and sometimes comes on suddenly. I think people who wanted this to be a mature, psychologically healthy relationship are missing the point. These are 2 people living in an extremely dangerous situation that is inherently very volatile. People are trying to kill them, and they're intensely needing each other. Love ISN'T always "cool" and detatched. Sometimes it means being a little foolish, selfish, or obsessed. The lovers in this movie were acting like poeple in love would act under those circumstances. Who are we to judge their feelings based on our idea of what love "should" be like?

I think that the disapproval of the particular audience I sat with last night shows perhaps a couple of things, namely:

1. That they either are just cynical, unromantic people who expect love to be full of witty and coy statements where people never reveal their true feelings, or:

2. They really don't understand these characters, their histories, and the circumstances surrounding their relationship.

Call me cheesy, overly romantic, or whatever, but as I've said, I personally found their relationship to be compelling, deep, and integral to the story. I felt a bit like I was on an emotional roller coaster, awkward moments at all. And if other people don't want to (or are unable to) feel the weight of their story, I think it's their loss.

 

Can someone explain to me why some have described Anakin as a stalker? I see none of that. Actually if you have seen Spiderman (Which a great deal of critics seem to think has a better romance) you know that Peter Parker once he know where MJ works just happens to go many miles out of his way to accidentally (On purpose) bump in to MJ a couple of times. That sounds like stalking. Not a guy who admits to someone that he has loved her since the moment he met her. And a guy that she kisses the first time they are truly alone.

Others have also said that he berates her with I Love You, I Love You, I Love You until she gives in. What gives with this? He doesnt say it to her once.

 

"However, there was far too much bickering among them, so it made them look strictly teacher and pupil."

Because, unfortunately we live in a world of either uncommitted love or just plain obsession. IMO, Anakin displayed neither of those. Stalkers force themselves on their prey, no matter what. Anakin didn't do that. I felt he was committed to Padme, but by the same token wasn't going to violate her freedom