Official News Of the Day Thread -African National Congress

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Ender Sai, Oct 11, 2005.

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  1. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    I know I am a few days late to this debate but this is the biggest load of **** that I have ever read. Who the hell gives the US, Australia or anybody else the moral right to pressure China, India or anybody else on this matter. There can be little things worse than prosperous western nations pressuring less developed nations into slowing their development (and make no mistake that is what we are talking about). Countless millions throughout India and China, and most of Africa live in abject poverty which will only ever be relieved through economic development yet you want to pressure such countries into worrying about their carbon emmissions [face_shame_on_you]
  2. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Worrying about carbon emissions doesn't mean no progress or improvement, it just means better planned development. Because I'm sure all those poor will do much better if we get into a global state that we can't back away from.
  3. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Karde, having a deficit on understanding and insight into the Chinese mindset would be just as deadly, in my opinion. :)

    ES
  4. Espaldapalabras Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    When turning those poor people into rich people entails using more resources than the Earth has, we do have an interest in slowing growth. We should also be making more sacrifices, but if we can hold them back until 2050, the global population will be decreasing by then anyways.
  5. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Some Economist pieces on the election:

    http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10215019

    http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10215019

    E_S
  6. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    Rudd has ratified Kyoto- next step will be to say "Sorry" to a certain stolen generation me thinks.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/rudd-signs-kyoto-deal/2007/12/03/1196530553203.html
  7. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    In other news:

    Down goes Chavez!

    In response,

    [image=http://www.staugustine.com/king/images/juan_carlos.jpg]

    [King Juan Carlos] [face_laugh] [/King Juan Carlos]

  8. Espaldapalabras Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    reveille blaring from speakers mounted on cruising trucks.

    :confused: I couldn't imagine a Latin American election without them.

    E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van! E' pa' fuera que van!

    You think that is annoying? How about 4 months of it blaring everywhere you go and all night long?
  9. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    I don't think you can call 49 to 51 "going down", it's more like a photo finish.

    I still think Chavez catches more critism than is merited.
  10. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    I'm still waiting for him to blame his loss on the US so he can use another one of his silly rhetorics about how he'll stop selling oil to us. That obviously won't happen.

    Did anybody see the sample ballot form? He was going to win by bundling up amendments in two voting blocks; hoping to confuse and entice voters. I believe one of the amendments bundled in with his 'can be elected forever' amendment was a shorter work day (Eight hours to six). Talk about enticing votes.
  11. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
  12. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Absolutely, he's a hero just like el Che! o_O

    http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10252006

    "Ordinary Venezuelans note that they cannot buy milk even when oil is close to $90 a barrel."

    Viva la revolucion?

    E_S
  13. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    You know when you see a child do something that they shouldn't, they see you watching and say, "I didn't do it"?

    What if that child was the Government of a sovereign state?

    General's killing rocks Lebanon

    There's been another bomb-blast in the captial of the Lebanon, Beiruit, in which a top ranking, independent general, Brig. Gen. Francois Al-Hajj was killed. Al-Hajj was expected to replace outgoing, pro-Syrian army chief General Suleiman when the latter is put forward as a consensus candidate President.

    The situation in the Lebanon has been brittle for some time, longer than the assassination of Rafik al-Hariri which sparked the Cedar Revolution (and prompted pro-Bush Americans, even on this board, to take credit :p) as Syrian has sought to impose itself upon its smaller neighbour.

    But this is ridiculous. Five parliamentarians have died in the past year, and get this: they're all independent (i.e. not pro-Syrian control of the Lebanon). Syria's response is to invoke Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it". Despite being found culpable in Mr al Hariri's death.

    /sigh

    E_S
  14. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    So, Kosovo declared independence today from Serbia.

    Russia cannot be happy about this, but I don't think any joint Serbian-Russian military action will take place, especially since there are some 16 thousands NATO soldiers still there. I don't think this was a wise move or that the West should have gotten so involved in its independence, since (as I understand it) basically the minority Muslim Albanians became the majority population in Kosovo within the last few decades, and after the war in the 90's they've been under NATO control and wanted independence, despite Kosovo being historic part of Serbia. It makes as much sense for California to secede from the U.S. because it's mostly Hispanic now, it sets a very bad precedent that different people can't coexist in the same country. It's so hypocritical of us since we are the United States, it's basically become one of the things we stand for (we fought a civil war to stay together too), yet we supported Kosovo's independence instead. So, who's looking forward to Scotland declaring independence in about 5 years, or more instability in Chechnya, or the partition of Iraq (and we all know how the partitions of Korea, Vietnam, India, and Palestine have gone). And we're approaching the 100th anniversary of WW1, which happened to break out in the Balkans, where Serbia and Kosovo and a few other tiny countries stand now. I just have a very bad feeling about this.
  15. Espaldapalabras Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    Frankly when the majority population starts the genocide, they don't have too much room to complain when the people they were trying to wipe off the map a few years ago decide to leave and take their land with them.
  16. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Mmm, I dunno. On one hand, the Kosovo region does happen to be the property of the Serbian government. However, it doesn't seem to me like that government ever had in mind the interests of the people who lived there, so maybe this is justified.
  17. SnorreSturluson Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2003
    star 4
    Genocide? All the reports I read about 1998/99 do not back the claims that there was something like "genocide". It was a bloody civil war with the Serbian forces dramatically overreacting. But some years later they could have called that "war on terror" (and indeed there are even claims that Al Qaeda and the KLA cooperated to some extend).
  18. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    I don't see how we can't recognize Kosovo's independence. After all, how did we become a country again?
  19. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    How did the Confederate States of America not become a country?

  20. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Because 'stayts rahts' (AKA slavery) isn't a legitimate reason for secession.
  21. king_alvarez Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2007
    star 3
    Not that I necessarily disagree with you here (I haven't completely decided how I feel about the Kosovo situation), but what threshold do you feel needs to be crossed in order to validate secession?
  22. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    I think JKH was being facetious.
  23. king_alvarez Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2007
    star 3
    Regardless of the intent of his post, I still think my question is valid. If Kosovo is indeed setting a precedent, what are the limits for determining whether a state can legitimately secede? How do we view other states that wish to secede? Where do we draw the line between offering support and withholding support?
  24. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    According to the UN talks, Kosovo isn't setting a precedent, being that it is a special case, IIRC.
  25. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    If Kosovo is indeed setting a precedent, what are the limits for determining whether a state can legitimately secede? How do we view other states that wish to secede? Where do we draw the line between offering support and withholding support?

    What precedent is supposed to be set though? Kosovo isn't a case where one region simply seceded from another. You have to keep in mind that Kosovo has been run under UN governorship since 1998 or 99. Serbia cultivated the antagonistic relationship by its treatment of the Kosovar Albanians.

    This latest declaration was born directly out of that relationship, and if anything, it represents the issue being supported at the UN's "extra-national" level. Is Serbia ready to take on both the UNSC and forces from NATO in order to keep an unwilling sheep within its flock?
  26. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Of course, the Serb's treatment of the Kosover Albanians was in part due to the terrorists practices of the KLA. Which were likely due to prior bad treatment of the Kosover Albanians. Which probably goes back to the poor treatment Christians by the Ottomans. Wash, rinse repeat, and we're back in the Crusades.

    Kosovo independence is incredibly troubling, not only because of the precedent. Divisions between east and west continue to grow deeper. Worse, Serbia just elected a pro-Europe government, which is now obviously been put on its heels.

    In the end, there probably wasn't any other alternative at this point. That doesn't make this a good thing, though.
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