Clone Wars *Official* Obi-Wan in TCW Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Is that all you've got? Satine is not a major character: the series is not The Loves of Satine. She could be sleeping with a different man every night while pining for Obi-Wan as far as we KNOW. For that matter, maybe both Obi-Wan and Satine have a bit of mourning going on for what they cannot have together: each has a duty and each is putting that duty ahead of the other and self. If they're both doing it, why is Obi-Wan the bad guy - because he's male? Why does Satine get a pass - because she's female and therefore more susceptible to emotional damage?
  2. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    But he knew Satine was in great danger,
    Show Spoiler
    she said her people was being massacred
    so more help could be good, what bad thing could Anakin bring?

    Also I checked the book again,
    Show Spoiler
    Satine didn't tell Obi Wan Maul was there.
  3. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Well, we can't say "She must got other lovers" when there is no proof of it.

    Did I criticize Obi Wan for put duty ahead? I don't like him have romantic relationship with many women and could not either keep distance with them, gives a clear "NO" or at least love only one woman. That's what I feel of his character, he has emotion, he does like those women but could not break the shackle in the end. So he's also a victim of the Old Jedi discipline. Also the rescue got little to do with duty or "greater good".
  4. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Nor did I say Satine must have other lovers, either - I said she may have. You don't know; I don't know. Nor do we know the "intimacy" of Obi-Wan and Satine's relationship.

    And while Oib-Wan may be "shackled" by the Jedi, so too is Satine in a way although I suppose her shackles are less restrictive (how would her people react if she were to marry - gasp - a Jedi considering the past history between Mandalore and the Order?).

    Once again, if Obi-Wan canonically had a relationship with Siri in his teens, Taria at some unknown time BUT NOT at the same time as with Satine, what's the problem? The implication in the earlier episodes was that Ob-Wan and Satine had not seen or spoken to each other in years, so when they reunited, Siri and Taria were in the past, at least relationship-wise. You're awfully hung up on how Obi-Wan "did Satine wrong" by liking other women, while "poor Satine pined without the comfort of other loves."
  5. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yes her idea is also a bit too ideal, especially the recent episodes made her like an idiot(if we judge her as a politician), I never deny it. But she was not a follower of the the traditional Mandalorians, she decided to established her new way to her people.

    Taria is around 21 BBY, so that's after he met Satine again, Siri died in 22 BBY, that's in the same year he met Satine again. So a he met Satine and expressed his feeling just a couple months after another lover's death, and he had romantic relationship with another women after he met Satine.

    Well it might not be some crime, it could got something to do with different people handle his story, but I really dislike guys who deal with women this way.

    Also the rescue let me feel he still couldn't totally break the shackle of the old Jedi discipline when Satine's life was at risk.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 31, 2013
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    LOL, try meeting some women who are, one, over the age of 16, and two, not so whiny and self-centered.

    Any adult woman who expects a man not to have a past is an idiot. And even based on the timeline you gave, the only problem would be if Obi-Wan lied and pretended there were no other women--in which case the issue is dishonesty, not other women. Again, unless Satine assumes the galaxy revolves around her.

    As far as his bringing Anakin and the "greater good"--yes, in a galaxy in which there is a war going on and the Jedi are stretched thin as it is, Obi-Wan bringing an extra Jedi with him to save one woman, simply because he's in love with that woman, would be selfish. Anakin could be used elsewhere.
  7. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yes he can have a past but not like he restart romantic relationship with you just a few months after his old lover's death, and have more than one at the same time.

    OK
    Show Spoiler
    Anakin was not on duty and he was very willing to help, also Satine told him "My people have been massacred".


    Here is the message she gave Obi Wan

    Show Spoiler
    This is a message for Obi Wan Kenobi. I've lost Mandalore. My people have been massacred. And Almec is now the Prime Minister. I can't explain everything now, but Almec has the support of the crime families, Obi Wan...I need your help.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    LOL, who makes these rules? Sounds rather puritanical to me.

    As far as Anakin, he may not have been on duty at that time, but he could have been needed the next day--and would then be unavailable because two Jedi went after one woman, not because she was any more important to the fate of the galaxy, but due to the personal feelings of one Jedi.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  9. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5

    Where do you get your timelines from? I am not unfamiliar with EU (but not totally familiar, either) - Siri was Obi-Wan's past; they were never lovers (physical sense) and they put their love behind them as teenagers and were friends.

    Taria: I honestly have no idea when their physical relationship was time-wise, but it was behind them during TCW and they were merely friends at that time (Wild Space books).

    Obi-Wan and Satine were at some unspecified time in the past - I presume after Siri. I suspect Taria was after Obi-Wan returned from Mandalore, but I do not know - do you?

    So as far as I know, it was Siri (unrequited, became friendship), Satine (mission with Qui-Gon), Taria (physical relationship that turned to friendship) - time - TCW and Obi-Wan reuniting with Satine. Shrugs - as a somewhat old-fashioned woman, I have no problem with that.
  10. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I'm just saying I have the reason to dislike it.

    That's a lame excuse, like I listed, it's not just about one woman but also the fate of the people of Mandalore. Satine was the leader of Mandalorians, so her safety is related to the whole Mandalorian politics.

    Show Spoiler
    The Jedi council's decision never surprised me, they are always that stubborn, but Obi Wan refused some important help when the guy was giving a hand, well, let me realized he could not really change.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 31, 2013
  11. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Check wiki, there is the timeline.
  12. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    @Slowpokeking, please use the edit button instead of making double posts.

    Obi-wan and Satine's reunion and old relationship is meant to contrast heavily with Anakin and Padme. Satine is also a young ruler. They mutually decided it best to not pursue a relationship and put their duties first. Obi-wan a Jedi defender of peace and Satine a politician dedicated to moving Mandalore to peace and keeping it that way. Really it seems like it might have been more Satine who put duty first if Obi-wan was willing to leave the Jedi for her but Satine never said the word. Really I admire Satine even more if she really did love Obi-wan that much and yet sacrificed that relationship to keep him on the path he needed to be on. The cliche hero/ prince meets the princess, they fall in love, and then live happily ever after is so over done not to mention unrealistic in IMO. I like shipping characters as much as the next person.

    As for why Anakin wasn't there, I'm going to assume that atleast occasionally Obi-wan and Anakin do not work together. He was not with Obi-wan in "Revival". Perhaps Obi-wan is protecting Anakin from Maul or worried he'll cloud his judgement. Anakin might lose it here. Or maybe Anakin is supposed to be on leave or had another mission. Maybe while all this is going on thats when Anakin is gonna walk into Padme's apartment and catch her with Clovis.
    Last edited by Seerow, Jan 31, 2013
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  13. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Well I don't want to put the same spoiler again, so I guess we should discuss it after the episode is aired.
  14. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    I don't even think this Taria woman exists, and if she does, she shouldn't. I'm not being old fashioned, but Obi-Wan shouldn't have been with so many ladies, considering he is a Jedi. Siri and Satine is enough, in my opinion. It's a classic case of the EU authors just writing in their own important characters whilst ignoring what's come before.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  15. FARK2005 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 2
    My point is that he didn’t give them any false hope. And if he should have kept his distance because he was a Jedi then so should Siri and Taria. Concerning Satine, he never gave her any false hope either; we don’t know exactly how close their relationship was at the time they were younger, but it doesn’t really matter because at that time Obi-Wan was prepared to leave the order for Satine – it was Satine’s silence that ended their relationship.
    Nowhere is it implied that Obi-Wan would leave for Satine during TCW, but he would have chosen her over the Jedi when they where younger if Satine had confessed her feelings for him there. Apparently she didn’t and the rest is history.

    Show Spoiler
    I doubt anyone would go on a dangerous mission that could cost them their life to rescue someone dear to them, and then not do their very best to succeed. But you are free to believe whatever you want.


    I think it was a wise decision to not tell Luke at that time, who had been pining for a father since he was a child, that his real father was alive, giving him a false hope that he could finally gain the father he never had. The Anakin Obi-Wan knew and loved was a good man that would never kill children or innocent people in cold blood, and never endanger his wife and unborn child by choking them with the Force. Once Anakin turned to the Dark side and became Darth Vader he was capable of all those things, and there was nothing in Vader’s actions that indicated he would hesitate to kill Luke (unless Luke was willing to join him, which would be disastrous) should they ever meet. Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted Luke to stay well clear of Vader until he was a Jedi because they didn’t want to risk him joining his father or die in (what they believed) a doomed attempt to have his father abandon the Dark side.

    Yoda and Obi-Wan believed that killing Vader was Luke’s only option if he wanted to live long enough to face the Emperor: they didn’t want Luke to kill Vader out of anger or hate like Palpatine did, they wanted him to kill Vader because it was his duty as a Jedi, because the Sith had to be destroyed if peace was to be restored to the Galaxy, and Vader was a Sith.

    Obi-Wan and Yoda held no hope that Anakin could return from the Dark side; their lack of hope was founded in what was known: Vader was a cold-blooded murderer and he shoved no remorse or regret for his actions. Luke’s hope was founded deeper and did not come from experience or what was known, but from his inexplicable trust in his father’s love for him, his son. There was no logical reason for his hope, but he trusted anyway – and fortunately for everyone Luke was right to trust.

    As other people have pointed out there could be many reasons for this: Obi-Wan knew Anakin was about to be assigned to lead another campaign (as a member of the Council he would be privy to such things), he didn’t want to get Anakin into trouble since his leaving was against the wishes of the Council, because he knew the mission would require a certain amount of discretion and subtly which were not Anakin’s strong side, etc.

    It’s funny you should say that, because in this tread: Should there be a challenge against Anakin and Padme's marriage? you want Anakin to do that very thing: in your opinion, apparently, it is okay for Anakin to develop feelings for Satine at the same time that he’s married to Padmé, but it’s wrong for Obi-Wan to have feeling for different women at different times in his life despite the fact that he has made no commitment and is therefore not bound to any of them.

    So why is it alright for Anakin to have feelings for more women (even though he is married to the love of his life), but it’s wrong for Obi-Wan to have feelings for more than one woman. As you said yourself:

    Valairy Scot likes this.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Regardless, Mandalore is one planet whose fate is not more important than the others. And Satine had been removed from power.

    @JackG , I don't have a problem with Obi-Wan enjoying many women. His life sucked in every other way pretty much, and sex =/ attachment, he wasn't violating any Jedi codes.
    Esg likes this.
  17. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, Siri and Taria got their problem if they weren't willing to leave the discipline behind for love, but he did it to more than one woman, if he really loves her and thought it's right to do so, Satine's words were not necessary.

    Yes he did, but at the same time he refused Anakin's help, which could make things different.

    What campaign?
    Show Spoiler
    Anakin clearly was waiting for him, was eagerly trying to help him, and he could help save Satine. Obi Wan never mentioned there was some campaign. Even if there was, Mandaloiran is a very serious issue compare to most of the campaign.

    No, Anakin was good at subtly as well, he's also a great pilot especially on Twilight, which could greatly help them escape.




    Sure they could hide the truth, but not making lies like "Vader killed your father" because it's misleading Luke, let him hate Vader and might want to avenge for his father for the lie. Something like "Your father is died in Clone Wars, Vader was a young jedi turned Sith, beware of him and do not go the same way" is much better and much less misleading.

    Yes Padme got choked, but what was her last word? "There is still good in him." Luke never saw the good Anakin, only Vader and Vader almost killed him in EP IV, cut off his hand in EP V, but did he agree with Obi Wan? No, he made it clear, there is still good in Vader and he's right.

    Obi Wan, so called long time friend of Anakin, didn't see it, why? Because the old jedi discipline, and that's why the PT Jedi failed.


    That's just impossible to do, especially Luke made it clear he didn't want to do so. Vader is his father and he believed there is good in him. You can see in EP VI, how much anger did it take to let Luke defeat Vader, he was indeed close to the Dark Side, but he dropped the weapon because of love, if he really killed his father then he would fall in the Dark Side.

    That's PT Jedi's flaw, they ignored people's emotion and force their Jedi to totally suppress it for the "greater good", which is unrealistic and caused tragedy, including their own downfall.

    Even Qui Gon in EP III told them love is the answer to Darkness, and they still didn't realize the truth in EP VI.

    Oh interestingly, I've seen individuals in SW universe can kill their relatives without show much anger or hate or other emotions, but they are mostly Sith.





    I'm not talking about feeling, feeling is not controllable, but decision to start a relationship or make it clear is. Marriage is mostly hold by responsibility.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 31, 2013
  18. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Nor do I, but I have a problem with each of these women -- Siri, Satine and Taria -- being his true love (as they've been asserted to be by Jude Watson and TCW)
  19. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Mandalore is not just a planet, the faction rules a whole system, it's one of the most powerful factions in the galaxy. That's why Maul wants to take control of it.

    Yes she was removed, but as long as she's there they could reestablish her order.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 31, 2013
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Well, you know how I feel about Jude Watson's glorified fan fiction with extreme character bias.

    I agree with you there, Obi-Wan didn't have "one true love" other than the Jedi Order itself. I think that's why Taria is my favorite Obi-girl; Karen Miller didn't write her with any pretense that she was "the one." She was a friend with benefits. There was the implication that it might have gone further than that if they weren't Jedi, but they were also both satisfied with the relationship as it was.

    So the Jedi, in the middle of a galactic war, should make it their jobs to "spread democracy" to any number of dictatorial systems?

    Why stop with Mandalore? Maybe they should try Tatooine, Ryloth (which still had slavery), Nal Hutta, Haruun Kal...the possibilities are endless here.

    Any reason why Mandalore or Satine should get special treatment?
  21. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    No, they should make it stable, because it could turn to the side of the CIS since the Mandalorian worked with Sith quite a few times in history(The Great Sith War, The Manadalorian War, The First and Second Galactic War) and provided a lot of help in their war against the Republic.

    There is no special treatment, I'm not asking the republic to send an army, just 2 Jedi to rescue her and see the situation.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 31, 2013
  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    "Just" two Jedi? You do realize there aren't exactly 10,000 of them anymore at this point, right?

    And again, are we sending two Jedi to every single system that needs "stabilization"?

    In ROTS, Obi-Wan was the only Jedi sent to kill Grievous--and killing Grievous was considered the way to end the war. If that mission only warranted one Jedi, why would rescuing a random duchess be considered important enough for two?
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jan 31, 2013
  23. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think it's too much for something like Mandalorian's situation.

    Again it's not some other system, it's the system of one of the most powerful factions in the galaxy, if they join the CIS or decide to go against the Republic like they did many times in history, there will be far many more death than just 2 Jedi.
  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Right, and back full circle here.

    It's all Obi-Wan's fault.
  25. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Partly, he could've done it better, that's what I'm saying.