Clone Wars *Official* Obi-Wan in TCW Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I was putting around on the Wook, and the best I could find about the Mandalorian Civil War was a time frame of 44-the-whatever. Now, Obi-Wan was born 57-whatever, making him 13 in 44-whatever, so we're supposed to believe he fell in love and had a relationship with Satine at 13? (That was Cerasi's time).

    So when was this "year long assignment" with Qui-Gon?
  2. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    The book said it's not the civil war, but endless battles between the clan leaders. Satine also came to Coruscant to study statecraft and diplomacy.
  3. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Yes, yes, I read all that. I'm looking for an approximate date.
  4. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    [IMG]

    Most likely 40-35 BBY from the appearance of the characters on this.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 2, 2013
  5. FARK2005 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 2
    Because Luke, like most adult people, is capable of having complex emotions – not just the basic ones. Complex emotions require self-reflection and self-evaluation, and therefore he would recognize that even though he was bereft of a father he’d still had a decent life and had been cared for by people who loved him. So even though Luke undoubtedly was angry at the unfairness that he, unlike most other children, did not know his parents, there is no reason he should feel hate. If the death of his father had meant Luke had spent his life in living hell, I could understand he could hate Vader. But if a person can hate another for killing a person they never even knew I’d say that person should visit a shrink.

    Ahh… no:

    “Much anger in him... like his father.” Yoda, ESB

    Yoda can sense anger in Luke, not hate (which is a much more dangerous emotion), and apparently the amount of anger in Luke was not abnormal since Obi-Wan replies:

    “Was I any different when you taught me?” ESB

    So telling Luke Vader had killed his father did not create hate in him.

    If his son was the only one in the world who had the power to stop him from killing even more people, you might have to think twice – unless you don’t give a damn about others. And as I said, once you reach a certain age, you are capable of more than just basic emotions.

    I’m not saying it’s an ideal situation, but if you want to blame someone then blame Anakin, because essentially it was his actions that put his son in that position.

    No, it would not be cold-blooded: cold-blooded means without feeling or emotion, but Leia who had been opposing the Empire for years, would do it out of her sense of justice, righteousness and rightfulness.

    Unlike Luke, Leia had been raised knowing that her duty was to her people, and much like the Jedi, her life was one of service. Leia knew Palpatine and Vader were evil and that as long as they lived the galaxy would never be safe. She had a good father-figure in Bail Organa and had no emotional attachment to her biological father nor did she wish for it. She didn’t have to hate Vader and Palpatine for her to kill them, she would do it because it would be her duty and because it would be the right thing to do - it would even count as self-defence since we know the Sith kill those who oppose them.

    I repeat: because Luke is capable of having complex emotions – not just the basic ones.

    As to why Obi-Wan could not do it:
    Luke is not in the same situation as Obi-Wan was nor did he have the same relationship/history with Anakin as Obi-Wan did, which makes drawing a direct comparison like you do, very problematic.

    What!?! I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry...

    Doesn’t change that fact that he joined him even though he knew Palpatine was a Sith, and that what he was planning would kill millions of innocent beings. I think much of Dooku’s character was inspired by Stalin: a political idealist who believed his vision for the galaxy was the only one that would work, and he held no concern for other living beings if they stood in the way of achieving his goals.

    That seems like a very far-fetched assumption – you base it on what exactly?

    I know you have a fondness for the EU, but Lucas’s movies overrules all of it. And only Lucas can decide what is the real history of the galaxy - not EU-authors.

    Lucas more or less did:

    "That boy is our last hope." Obi-Wan, ESB

    Of course, Yoda replies: "No, there is another", but Leia was not as strong in the Force as Luke nor had she received any training at that point. So at the time of ESB and ROTJ Luke held the best chance of destroying the Sith.
    The Shadow Emperor likes this.
  6. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    This thread is a mix of AIDS and lolz. Thankfully, lolz is the cure for AIDS.
  7. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Are you saying an adult won't hate someone if he killed his father?
    Yes but he still missed his father quite a bit, he admired his father when he heard it from Obi Wan, he was not too pleased with his life at that time, that is enough to create hate against Vader, someone who took his father from him.


    Yoda sensed anger it does not mean there is no hate. Did Yoda sense the good in Vader?

    Again it's not the case, even in the movie it showed clearly Force users can be killed by non Force users, also why didn't Obi Wan try it?

    Justice righteousness and rightfulness are something that should not be judged by one person, or one organization. Or it's just self righteousness.

    Yes, her good step father, her home was destroyed by the Empire, and she was quite arrogant in the movies, plus Palpatine sure would talk about these to lure her darkness out, how would she be able to avoid darkness?

    We don't see that much in EP V when he yelled at Vader of that lie.



    The novel of EP III said he didn't want to kill a helpless man.

    His situation is different, that's why I'm saying even Obi Wan could not do it, Luke is not even close.

    Isn't that what Yoda and Obi Wan thought in OT?

    No, EU is part of the canon unless it directly contradict with the movie.

    And they are wrong, simple.


    Again these got little to do with this episode, and even Yoda admitted he was wrong in the end of EP III, if you want to continue, let's better focus on this episode.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 3, 2013
  8. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
  9. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
  10. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    No no, direct quote: "It's happening all because of Obi Wan...'This is all because of me, because I failed to prevent Maul from resurrecting, I failed to capture him in the attempts I had...' "
  11. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    That's not his fault, however, refused Anakin's help when Satine was in danger and enrage Maul when he was choking Satine, is his fault.

    Do you think it's fair?
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 3, 2013
  12. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    It's entirely Obi Wan's fault. He didn't finish the job, he only bisected the guy instead of killing him. I mean come on Kenobi. Sloppy work.
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Maul only choked Satine because Obi-Wan pissed him off.

    Only at the end, do I understand...

    It's all Obi-Wan's fault.

    Paraphrasing Danny Kaffee in A Few Good Men, maybe if we try hard enough, we can get Obi-Wan charged with the Kennedy assassination.

    And Fanboy: [face_love]
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Feb 3, 2013
  14. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I don't mind that, he didn't know Maul would come back. But, why did Obi Wan still continue to talk about dark side of being weak and Maul's background to further enrage him when Maul already showed such expression?

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 3, 2013
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Because he was inwardly laughing his ass off about how constipated Maul was, but wasn't sure what shop on Mandalore sold stewed prunes so couldn't give him any direction?
  16. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Oh yeah, you still try to avoid these by not being serious.
  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Dude. I've tried being serious. You've closed your ears to any perspective that isn't your own, you twist events and other people's posts to suit your own viewpoint, and you are absolutely determined, come hell or high water, to just make someone post that Satine and Mandalore's fate is all Obi-Wan's fault.

    What exactly would be the point in giving you a serious response now? More endless circling?

    I don't agree with you. I'm not going to agree with you. I'm not sure what you're looking for here.
  18. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Cuz you don't get it, Slowpokeking.

    Obi-Wan is not responsible for Maul's actions.

    Secondly, Maul was always going to kill Satine, regardless.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Feb 3, 2013
  19. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    So if you enraged the kidnaper to kill the hostage or explode the bomb when the situation could be different, you can say it got nothing to do with you? Then why would police always need to "negotiate" with them to gain time and try to save people?

    How are you different? I quoted all these stuff and pics from the story to show the problem of Obi Wan, and I never twist anyone's idea here about this topic. Some people just refuse to accept it even said the writers decided to kill Satine so it does not matter.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 3, 2013
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Pretty sure it's still the kidnapper's fault . But blame the SWAT team if it makes you feel better.
    The Shadow Emperor likes this.
  21. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    So next time when such situation happens, try jump in and taunt the kidnapper so he will kill the hostage right way, then say "It got nothing to do with me!". I think the hostage's family and a lot of people will think differently.
  22. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Maul was always going to kill Satine, regardless. He says so himself, that he "languished for years thinking of nothing" but that moment. Even if Obi-Wan kept his mouth shut and ignored Maul, Maul would have killed Satine to get his attention. Even if Obi-Wan said exactly what Maul wanted to hear, Maul would have killed Satine anyway.

    Kenobi is 0% responsible for Satine's death.

    You saying otherwise a million times won't change that.
  23. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    He said it after he was enraged by Obi Wan's words. Before that he was using Satine to try to let Obi Wan lose control and choose the Dark Side, I don't see him would kill Satine so soon, as long as Satine could live longer, there is hope for her to be saved.

    A lot of kidnappers said "I'm going to kill the hostage", but do you see the police just taunt him and let him do it so they can kill him afterwards because "he was going to kill him/her regardless"? No, they try to "negotiate" with the kidnapper to buy more time and try to save the hostage from the kidnapper at the same time. Why? Because they don't want the hostage to be killed. I don't ask much for Obi Wan, not like he has to behave like Qui Gon, just, drop his discipline for a moment when his friends' life is in risk, is that too much for him? If the police simply taunt the kidnapper and makes him to kill the hostage, how will the hostage's family and other people think? "Nah he/she is going to die anyway." right?

    Actually he wouldn't even have to face such situation if he accepted Anakin's help.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 3, 2013
  24. eukaryote Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Obviously. It's all Obi-Wan's fault. Anakin called it back in 2002.

    What's sad is I bet Obi-Wan's would agree with the conclusion that it's all his fault. He said that he had failed Anakin anyway.
  25. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Blast, I was gonna suggest that but you got there first! Does anyone actually know where Obi-Wan was on 22nd November 1963?