Clone Wars *Official* Obi-Wan in TCW Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Garth Maul, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    No, Obi-Wan didn't give him enough "attaboys" and so he turned to Palps to be his emotional mentor.

    I'm not horribly enthusiastic about Obi-Wan in AoTC (and definitely not fond of Anakin in that movie, either) - he was definitely more in the "master" role (for a reason) than "friendly mentor" role. Yes, he used a fair number of "my young" and "my very young padawan" to a 19 year old chafing at the bit to get on with his perceived earned rank of knight (because of his "power") - and yes, there were a surprising number of folks who thought Obi-Wan had no right to dress Anakin down before Padme when the boy was clearly "not defying Obi-Wan, but trying to impress a girl."

    In fact, someone started a thread that asked if Obi-Wan "disrespected Anakin" in that scene (yes, Anakinfan :) not saying there wasn't a better way for both to handle it) .

    I really really wish we had been given more of an insight into the years between TPM and AoTC - did Obi-Wan waffle between too strict and too lenient while trying to find the proper teaching style? Did he get any support from creche masters and/or the Council? Did things start out fairly well until Palps got his hooks into Anakin and got him questioning Anakin and the Order?

    And edited to add: and there it is again. Obi-Wan's mistake (and the Order by implication) was not being enough like Qui-Gon, especially when it came to Anakin. How - how dare they!
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Feb 4, 2013
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  2. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I always think the gap between them, until the fight in Mustafar is not they don't like or disrespect of each other, it's they are too different on too many ways, so there are a lot of misunderstanding going on, even the choking incident in Mustafar.

    Anakin is too different than most of the PT Jedi, and Obi Wan is too different than the others of Dooku's line. Not sure why
  3. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Actually, I think Dooku and Obi-Wan have a LOT of similarities, just like Qui-Gon and Anakin. Lucky for us, Obi-Wan didn't take the traits that led Dooku astray to the same end point. I could probably write a dissertation on this but won't.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Wait, what? I don't remember starting such a thread and can't imagine that I would have, although I admit to having been hard on Obi-Wan in the past.

    Maybe I did start it and just don't remember, but if so...****, how embarrassing.

    I do remember the Anakin fan club thread on the temp boards, the one that I did start, disintegrating into "Obi-Wan and the Jedi suck because they didn't kiss Anakin's ass," and I was disgusted, enough that I'll be avoiding any "Anakin hangouts" in the future.

    There is a way to be a fan of a character and be willing to call that character on his ****, just as in real life it's possible, even expected, to do as much when one loves a person. Sadly this concept is missing from some parts of the fandom.
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  5. hlc88 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think its Filoni choosing to do this to Obi-Wan... rather George Lucas himself who comes up with the story and wants this and this to happen. Filoni adheres to Lucas.
  6. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Maybe a lot, but also quite different on many important things and caused tragedy.

    Dooku was already very displeased with the order and the corruption of the republic before the Naboo crisis, and Qui Gon's death let him lost the last bit of hope. His later path is too extreme, however many of his concerns are right when he was a Jedi Master, too bad the council would not listen, just like they didn't listen to Qui Gon later.

    I guess if Qui Gon lose Obi Wan that way he would probably leave the order as well.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 4, 2013
  7. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    No, no, no - sorry, you did not start that thread nor I think contributed to it. You are on record as saying that Obi-Wan could have handled that better than he did and I only meant to imply that I didn't want to sidetrack the tjhread into a discussion of how it should have been handled. The thread was about how some felt about Obi-Wan using that thread as one example.

    Me sorry - apologies if it gave you or anyone else the wrong idea. @};-
  8. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
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    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    I think the aim may be to make sure Obi-wan actually goes to Tatoonie to curl into a ball... <<;
  9. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    And the odd thing is that Filoni himself says in that commentary that Obi-Wan is a 'true Jedi' and then insists on giving him a very un-Jedi reason for his later actions.

    As for any remarks about Obi-Wan 'disrespecting' Anakin in AOTC, it seems to me that respect has to go both ways and he isn't receiving any as far as we can see. But really, it's very easy to pick on one scene and assume that the whole relationship was like that, even though we had already seen the affection between them in the previous scene.

    Obviously, if Qui-Gon had lived, everything would have been great because he was the best Jedi ever and Obi-Wan could never live up to his perfection ;) I think that some people view him through 'rose tinted spectacles' because he died before he could train Anakin. It's like the absent parent syndrome.

    Anyway, there will never be full agreement on any of these matters. People have their favourites and they will interpret scenes from their own point of view. Sorry, got a bit off topic there. I just hope that TCW clears up some of the ambiguous points from the movies, especially regarding Obi-Wan and Anakin.
  10. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I do think Qui Gon would be a better master for Anakin since they share more on common.
  11. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Ah, so I'm not the only one who noticed that! Interesting that some traits seem to arise in alternate 'generations' of that line. Stubbornness, of course, is a trait that they all share. I would read that dissertation :D
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  12. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    That is one thing I think TCW has done brilliantly - shown their friendship and close relationship (and Anakin's "good side" that was too little represented for my tastes in AoTC).

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, half the world thinks Anakin would have turned out just fine if only Obi-Wan had disappeared and Qui-Gon lived to train Anakin. Who says once Anakin became a padawan that Qui-Gon wouldn't have tightened up the discipline he clearly expected from his padawan? (And maybe this and maybe that - I don't want to sidetrack into how Qui-Gon would have been better and different and how hunky-dory everything would be had Qui-Gon lived.)
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  13. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Yes, and I could write a dissertation on that subject!
  14. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think he would turn fine for sure, but he already formed tight relationship with Qui Gon since he let Anakin's dream came true and he was more like a father figure. Qui Gon was also against the PT discipline so he shared more on common with Anakin. If we add the EU, Qui Gon also had a apprentice(Xanatos) who turned to the Dark Side before Obi Wan so he has more experience than Obi Wan about this.

    So to Anakin, Qui Gon would be a better choice to train him.
  15. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I'm sure Anakin would have preferred Qui-Gon, too, especially as he knew little of Qui-Gon except that little bit from what little time they had together.

    I *will* grant you that Qui-Gon was more "dad" and Obi-Wan more "older brother."
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    No harm no foul, I was reading your post on my phone and may have misread.

    The situation in which Obi-Wan allegedly "disrespected" Anakin; it was painful to watch. It's pretty damn bad when Jar-Jar gets embarrassed. And it's possible that both of them could have behaved better. If there is one thing Obi-Wan could have done differently, it would be to ask Anakin to step into the next room before dressing him down. And Anakin also could have asked Obi-Wan to step into the next room to discuss their disagreement about what the mission entailed. None of that discussion needed to happen in front of Padme, Typho, the handmaidens and Jar-Jar. And I think it escalated more quickly because it did.

    Here is what I think happened from Anakin's end:

    Padme: "I don't need more security, I need answers. I want to know who is trying to kill me."
    Obi-Wan: [cue in the teacher from the old Peanuts cartoons] WA-WA-WA-WA
    Anakin: "We will find out who is trying to kill you, Padme."

    I really do not think Anakin heard a word Obi-Wan said, I think he skipped right over it and responded to Padme's comment. But...he contradicted Obi-Wan and undermined his authority, and Obi-Wan was right to be irritated about that. And Anakin deserved the reprimand because of it.

    A misunderstanding all around, which could have been avoided if Anakin would have just chilled the **** out in the first place, and if they had both handled their disagreements in private.
  17. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, Obi Wan is more like a brother to him and Qui Gon is more like a father figure.

    I don't dislike the PT movie Obi Wan. he's also fine to me in TCW beside this arc.
  18. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Didn't Anakin say that Obi-Wan is like a father to him in AOTC?
  19. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, I think he tried to make Obi Wan a father figure but overall he's more like a brother to him, especially compare to Qui Gon.
  20. Seerow SWTV★Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2011
    star 6
    He's a father in AOTC and a brother in ROTS. Relationships change like that. Obi-wan is still a vital part of Anakin's life. That's why it messes with Anakin's head so bad in "Crisis on Naboo".
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  21. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Feb 28, 2003
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    He's a mentor for a decade and raised Anakin from a 9 year old child into a young man. I think it was fair to say that he would have been like a father during that time or "the closest thing" to one. In the microseries Obi-Wan tells Anakin before his knighting ceremony that it is time that they forgo the roles of master and apprentice and instead become brothers. As Anakin matured and no longer was a padawan and got to work as an equal along side his former master, I can see that relationship dynamic changing.

    Plus we don't see Anakin refer to Obi-Wan as a brother and Obi-Wan doesn't refer to Anakin as a son. I feel like Anakin was looking for guidance and wanted Obi-Wan to be a father figure after the death of his mother. Obi-Wan meanwhile could have viewed Anakin like a young brother and never regarded him as a son. Who knows?
  22. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Purely my speculation, but I think Anakin wanted more of an "authoritative" yet kindly parent figure and figured Obi-Wan was more like the "older brother" who had to step into the parent role after the parents' deaths. From what I understand, both siblings share a certain understandable resentment in such situations even as they also welcome it so I wouldn't be surprised if that was how it started out.
  23. laloga Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2011
    star 2
    [face_laugh]

    Um....thank you for this. I laughed for like ten minutes with this mental image. And I sorely needed a good laugh this morning. :D
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  24. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Can't remember if I asked this in this thread, so I'll just copy from the episode thread:


    This started out as a response to a question if the Council allowed Obi-Wan to go on his own or if he went without permission...

    I think we might have a good discussion on this?

    1. Council's reaction
    2. Will there by any on-screen consequences

    Discuss at will.
  25. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Mostly it's going to affect Anakin if they decide to make some consequences.

    What do you think of the "Tragedy of Obi Wan the Inflexible"?