Memph, TN Official ROTS movie discussion thread **Spoilers, of course**

i think he sees it as the last remnant of anakin skywalker because after that fight anakin completely became darth vader - the transition of him into his new shell sort of finalizes the process, as if killing younglings somehow didn't. the part about that that bothered me is that there wasn't any room for discussion between obi-wan and anakin where ani could have said "i want my son to have this" as obi-wan says he did, in a matter of words, in ANH.

 

obi-wan says a lot of things to luke that arnt really true. like the whole, "an aprentice of mine named Darth Vader betrayed and killed your father"
im thinking he said that to luke to just, y'know, coax him along

 

A thing I think is funny is that even though they went down 2 different paths, both Anakin and Luke had puppet masters feeding them what they wanted to hear so that they would fulfill their destiny.

Palpy was Anakin's puppet master, his mentor, teasing him with greater power and all the things Anakin wanted. Building Anakin's ego.

ObiWan was Luke's puppet master, teaching him about the force, handing him half truths that led him on his way to fulfilling his destiny and redeeming his father.

They (Palpy and ObiWan) both lied their butts off to get what they wanted. The only difference is that one wanted good and one wanted evil. I personally think that, if things had been different, Anakin would not have wanted Luke to be a jedi and have to sacrifice the things he would have had to. That didn't stop ObiWan from feeding Luke a bunch of crap about "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it" That pretty much planted the seed. From there all it took was a galatic war, a princess and an Evil Sith Lord that betrayed and murdered Luke's father to get him rolling.

Palpy was the puppet master of the PT, Ben was the puppet master of the OT

 

Tim......"pregnancy hormones"?? come on! i love star wars & will defend even its' poorly written dialogue to the bitter end, but pregnancy hormones?? padme goes from being the ruler of an entire planet - battling people physically & verbally to defend the republic - to "i don't know nuthin bout birthin no babies!" and "ani what should we do?" "let's go have our baby by the lake on naboo"

i understand that lucas wanted to demonstrate that their love was genuine & that they could not live w/o one another (a la the setting suns at the end), but does she have to become a pathetic whiny figure to demonstrate that she is truly in love? i just think lucas could have done better, & i think it reveals a lot about his opinions of the role of women in epic (which i find disheartening!). maybe he could have made his point better if he outlined how they BOTH were willing to give up everything to be together. perhaps in the dvd!

 

I now think that perhaps the Jedi aren't the Good Guys after all, not until Luke steps in--and even then I'm not sure because I don't have any idea about the final 3 stories in the Saga.

Say, anybody got those stories on audio-book? I need to borrow that/them/those.

 

JD!

As always, I agree with you completely. Rhonda and I have been talking about the size of those babies. Padme barely had a bump there and gave birth to two toddlers!

I hate to preach but fighting close to the lava and not catching fire...... SO WHAT????

LOL! True. We are talking about a galaxy where people shoot lightning out of their fingertips and don't even get a heat rash from it.


Dale: But at that point, Anakin's just blind to the whole thing. Just taking everything at face value at this point. He's too tired and scared to do anything else. Anakin was all about some Padme at that point.

"You need me to kill younglings to be powerful enough with the Dark Side to save Padme, they're dead"
"You want me to hop on one foot with my finger up my nose, that'll help save Padme, look at me jumpin'"

Love and a lack of sleep will do strange things to a man.




Kevin: Did the children sleep well after that, or were there problems?

No problems so far. We discussed taking them for a looooong time and showed them the burning scene on our computer before we went to the movie. And Emma seems to have "gotten" the story. When people ask her how the movie was, she answers, "It was sad."


Melissa: You don't know the power of the pregnancy hormone. Seriously though, I'm not a big Padme fan but I was totally with her in this movie. Just like Anakin was dealing with demons, she had a lot on her plate, too: a marriage that she has to hide, a pregnant belly that she has to hide, her husband is on the front lines of a war - that alone will mess you up - she and Anakin are both facing dishonorable discharges from their careers, she is having to choose between her sense of duty toward the Senate and her sense of duty to her husband, and Palpatine - the man she put in power with a vote of no confidence in TPM - turns out to be a Sith lord who has betrayed the entire galaxy.

I understand what you're saying about him making her appear weak and there certainly could have been a better explaination for her death, but she got screwed as bad as everyone else and I think her portrayal was appropriate. Just my opinion, of course.

(Look Rhonda - hell has frozen over - I'm defending Padme. )

 

I actually liked Padme in this movie as well. (There goes hell's thermostat dropping a few more degrees.) I like the way you put it, Traci: She did have a lot to contend with on top of being pregnant with twins. Her world fell apart around her, just as everyone else's did. Her death, though, is more symbolic than realistic: Padme is the Republic. Padme is Love. Padme is all that connects Anakin to the light.

And for those who have never been pregnant, or been married to a woman who is, you certainly don't know the power of pregnancy hormones. Some days you have to get your parka and your kayak to deal with the hot flashes and the waterworks. Other days, you'd rather move in with Palpatine because it would be...well, easier. Then some days you just take a vow of silence, because no matter what you say, you're dead.

And then some days, she glows like an angel... And you babble the silliest, most mundane sentiments that you could possibly utter, because words can't even come close to what your heart is feeling. That is why I love the balcony scene. Been there. Done that. Twice.

 

If I had a wife, and she was pregnant, I'd be all like, "Baby, you're pretty pregnant, but that baby is gonna be UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGLY!"

That's as close as I can get to being sentimental.

 

There comes a time in every woman's life when she must choose love or career. Sometimes it is not a big decision and certainly in real life we do it every day. And both are compatible. But Lucas has said, even though it might not have been clear on the screen that at that point, she had a baby to think about and she missed her husband. I know when I married my ex, if anyone had told me..."You'll need to give up that job, even though it was your whole life." I wouldn't have bat an eye. You choose when you marry...for better or worse, in sickness and in health, till death do us part.

Add a baby, and she was on the next transport to Naboo. She just had to wait on Anakin.


In the novelization, it makes it clear. When the war was over and he had found a way to save her, he was quitting the order. He and Padme had made their choice.

 

And that made it even more tragic. These two people had decided to move on with their lives, and then all hell broke loose. They got caught up, and swallowed, in the landslide of the changing political atmosphere. It's heartbreaking when you stop and think about it. Their loyalties, distributed as they were, wouldn't allow them to do what was right for them. I wonder what it would've been like if Anakin and Padme had decided right there in the shadow of that pillar in the Senate Landing Platform to say, "To hell with all of you. We're off to Naboo to raise our child." When you stop and think about it, it was loyalty that killed both of them. They were both loyal to degrading or dying entities, and were dragged down by their undertows when they went under.

 

There comes a time in every woman's life when she must choose love or career.

You sound like a bad Jenniffer Garner movie.
No woman in my family punked out and gave up careers for love or babies. I work with women all the time who work into their 8th month of pregnancy. Big deal.

In Padme's case, her career was sort of floundering, and she even stated in AOTC that having babies and a family *were* her goals. She's been a career woman since she was 12 or so, and now she wants a normal life. She cares about the Republic, but she knows by Revenge that its pretty much gone. In the Happy Empire Day Senate scene, she might as well have a cigarette in one hand. She's *very* bitter at this point.


I liked that Anakin was just sitting there on the balcony watching Padme, but the dialogue was pretty bad. Sorry, but George can't write romantic dialogue- at least not for these two. I hate they took the Naboo/family scenes that were in AOTC- I think it would have helped their relationship on screen.

You simply need to drink some grapefruit juice, take an a St. John's wart pill or something, and watch this scene again. Not only is a cute tribute to Shakesperean Romeo-esque romantic dialogue (laced with subtext), but the scene pretty much establishes exactly why we have Darth Vader. "Then love has blinded you?" Yeah, it pretty much has. I was waiting for Jim Broadbent to put around the corner yelling "Love has driven him MAADDD!!!"

 

Well said there on that last part, Will. Well said.

 

Star Wars and Burger King being Flame Broiled

 

Darn it Rhonda, you beat me to it!

 

I'm still waiting for the Burning Anakin Collector's Glass.

How about the Choking Padme?

Or the Exploding Grievous?

Or the Slaughter of the Innocents?



They made toys of that POS Matrix series and for Van Helsing. Nobody said crap about that. They still make toys for the ultra-violent and boring-as-hell LOTR franchise. Nobody whines about that, either. (Oh, I forgot, though... that was a "masterpiece". )

Of course, judging by their place on the discount rack at WalMart, nobody buys those toys, either.


I like this article better:

Star Wars Fans Hospitalized After Lightsaber Accident

And folks say we are geeks. I would've expected a story like this to come out of Alabama, but not out of the UK.

 

Geeks we may be- but homemade petrol sabers..? Nope. Photoshop is much safer!

Sorry, Meatypants- saw the movie 3 times and it just keeps getting suckier every single time I see it. May catch the DVD once it's out just to see what was cut and it's any better then, but I won't be standing in any lines to buy it.

I still say Lucas didn't do a good job of conveying on filmall of the motivations and feelings these characters had. Yeah, the books may have explained it all, but I didn't wait this long for the book. I read the comics and thought, "Oh, dang- this movie is gonna rock!" Then after seeing it on the big digital screen, I kept thinking, "What happened? Did I like that or not? Why wasn't I wowed by it?" same felling I had from the last two- the only thing that saved that wow feeling was the last scene of AOTC where all the troopers are loading up and going to war with the Imperial March playing in the background. This movie (and the last two) just had too much blury eye candy and not enough meat for my tastes.

 

Cocktail for Lin.

Guess what? There are folks out there who hate ESB, too. Don't worry about it, Lin. We all still love you, and I, for one, won't put you down for your opinion. How's that line go? "From a certain point-of-view"? I have to ask myself how I would feel if I hadn't read the book first, or if I hadn't been spoiled completely rotten first. Would I feel the same way? I can't say.

One thing I can say is that I think that the case with ROTS is, (as it is with just about everything in the world of film, art, and literature), that how we feel about it is dependent on our own personal life experiences, our personalities, and our dreams. It was easier to love SW so blindly as a kid because it was the ultimate fantastic voyage that stemmed from our eagerness to become the heroic adult that we dreamed to be. I think ROTS appeals to me because of my own life as a husband and father, my own worries about how to ensure the safety of my wife and children, the lengths I know I'd go to do just that, and my fears that I may ultimately fail them. I understand Anakin in this, much as I understand Vader thanks to my own father's sad, pathetic life. If my life were different (and believe me, I'm not knocking anyone's life here), I may feel completely different about this film. My perspective has been shaped so by my life experience that I do identify with the film and with the characters. It doesn't make me a better person than anyone else. It just gives me a different point of view.

 

Guess what? There are folks out there who hate ESB, too.

Blasphemy!

Next you're gonna tell me there are folks out there who don't like 'Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo'..!

 

They do exist. They whine because that's not the direction they felt the Star Wars story should've gone. It's their opinion. I say "whatever". It's just a movie. Life will go on.

Now, you tell me that there are folks who hated Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo and I say...

THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

 

Qui-Gon Tim posted on 5/24/05 9:37am

---

And that made it even more tragic. These two people had decided to move on with their lives, and then all hell broke loose. They got caught up, and swallowed, in the landslide of the changing political atmosphere. It's heartbreaking when you stop and think about it. Their loyalties, distributed as they were, wouldn't allow them to do what was right for [i]them[/i]. I wonder what it would've been like if Anakin and Padme had decided right there in the shadow of that pillar in the Senate Landing Platform to say, "To hell with all of you. We're off to Naboo to raise our child." When you stop and think about it, it was loyalty that killed both of them. They were both loyal to degrading or dying entities, and were dragged down by their undertows when they went under.

[hr][/blockquote]

Great post, Tim. And it pretty much sums up how I feel about the matriarch and patriarch of the saga.

This is the only Star Wars movie that built on emotion and plot, to me. It really wasn't a Saturday matinee/popcorn movie. The themes in this one were symbolic and adult. Very adult. How do you choose, literally between your mate's life and your best friend's life, or your mate's life and your job/station in life? Each scene in this one built off of the one before it to create a story that culminated in the downfall of a galaxy and the end of innocence. I always kind of figured something climatic had to happen after hearing Obi-Wan talk in ANH, but man...we really see just how BAD it got. It was heartbreaking. Who knew these two kids that were the light-hearted heroes in the OT came from all of this heartbreak and tragedy? Brilliant. Look at me gush. I'm really, really not trying to sway anyone to my "side", I'm just putting in words how I felt about the movie. I want to see it again. Sue me. [face_tongue]

 

I'm ready. It's been over 48 hours. If only I could escape from work unnoticed.

 

Has that ever stopped you before..?

 

Well.... No.

Someday I'm going to have to work for a real company. I'm going to miss the freedom, but I'll welcome the paycheck.

 

Paycheck..? Hmmm...oh yeah, that little piece of paper they give you once a week or so that doesn't nearly cover how much you need to live. I get one of those- and these days they don't bounce, which helps.

No, Rhonda- wouldn't sue you for wanting to see the movie again. Heck, I'd even go with ya, but I'd would have to sneak into whatever was playing in the next theater.

 

It's going to be an Adam Sandler film. You know it, Lin. They make, what?, one or two a week now? That would be my idea of hell.