Nash, TN **OFFICIAL** ROTS Reaction/Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

"Where is it "explained" in the movie that Sifo is Palps? "

He's not. Sifo-Dyas was just another Jedi we never met, though he was responsible for the ordering of the Kamino Clones. His story is sort of explained in Labrynth of Evil. He was basically duped by Dooku and Sidious and eventually outlived his usefulness. But his end proved Dooku worthy as the Sith apprentice.

 

You're not going to know that your mother was "very beautiful, but sad" from inside the womb.

 

Certainly not if you are bereft of midi-clorians it seems. But being Anakin's offspring, these aren't ordinary children by any means, at least not in the Star Wars realm of fiction. Yoda speaks of seeing things with the force... future, past, old friends long gone, yada-yada... Her "memories" are most likely just misperceptions of her own innate force ability. That coupled with whatever her adopted parents may have conveyed to her about her real mother, might have been responsible for those so called memories. We don't know that her parents spoke much of her, but the fact that she knows she is adopted is a step in that direction. This might even explain why Luke has no memory of Padme. The true stories of his liniage were obviously totally absent in his upbringing. You can thank Uncle Owen for that.

 

This is my own little explaination for the "beautiful but sad" theory...I know i'll get shopt down on it...
Both kids know they are adopted. Luke was told of his father (not the truth, but a story nonetheless)
so who's to say Bail and his wife did not tell Leia about her mother, and maybe show her a picture? Maybe not a whole truth, but at least something to know she was beautiful and maybe it was a sad story. "Images, really...feelings"

 

Leia's perception of her mother is really the only question/contradiction left unadressed in the movie. Hopefully, Lucas will explain something or at least it will be the subject of some novels in the Empire era.

In the security holo, the galactic empire is mentioned right before Obi-Wan mentions the Emperor, but that is still a quick realization of the new title.

I really would have liked better dialogue. The movie was much better when the actors weren't speaking. I also think Lucas did a dis-service to many of his actors and their fans by limiting or cutting their roles. Needa was leading the ship that destroyed Grievous's Invisible Hand. Ayala Secura had some lines instead of just appearing for an unknown reason as a hologram in the discussion when Grievous's death is reported and then shown being killed. Shaak Ti is only a hologram. Her death might be one of the deleted scenes on the DVD.

Instead, Lucas seems overly infatuated with the Death Star (design seen at end of AOTC and construction at end of ROTS) despited the obvious time problem of needing almost 20 years to complete. Plus he cut one of his kids in the scene that would be a pre-cursor to the rebellion (Mon Mothma, Tar Taneel, Bana Breemu), but left Jett's scene of killing clones as Bail Organa is leaving the Jedi Temple that added nothing.

Some of these changes were made long enough ago to be cut from the novel which I really don't understand. Unless you've decided that something doesn't happen, it should have at least stayed in the book even if it's not in the film.

 

Ok, the thing that is bothering me about this 'movie' is that you have to have the book or books to explain it. Why put in the 'Gladiator' scene in the last movie and cut the scenes that show Padme and Anakin meeting her folks, or have Jar-Jar in the first movie at all? All these other facts, "Well, in this novelization, or in this cut scene..." don't help to tell the story in this movie if you haven't read them. Instead of a PG-13 warning there should have been a required reading list. George started out to tell this story as a movie, and wanted to finsh his story. After almost thirty years of waiting to see how this story ends(or begins- from your own point of view) I have to say this story was weak.

I've been a fan of Star Wars since the first time I saw an ad for the film back in 1977, and was hooked after seeing it in the theater that year and getting my first action figures for Christmas. I've seen ROTS three times now in the theater and have disliked it more and more with each showing. Sorry, but there were more questions raised than answered. Nothing new or shocking was revealed that we didn't already know or suspect. And man, what a waste of wookies! Yep, the movie looked pretty and there were some scenes I enjoyed, but there was an overuse of CGI, and a lack of good dialogue and story telling.

I think from now on if I need a Star Wars fix I'm going to just watch the OT and pretend the PT was all just a bad dream.

 

"it explains everything, yet it explains nothing."


shannon, yeah, i wondered about that too....if leahs parents showed her pics or something.....

 

Holocubes...Leia was shown Holocubes of her mother, and being raised into leadership in the rebelion she was probably told the truth about Padme :mit poppa vader:: But just like luke: "Anakin was betrayed and killed by vader." She wouldnt blow her own cover and tell the galatic empire her true identity.
She was raised by a complete differnt set of people. Aunt Beru and Owen were more gaurded about luke's life and may not have even known about Leia. They didnt keep with anakins ideals and thought it best to shelter luke from his lineage. Nothing good ever came from it.
But Leia was raised int he senate just like Padme + the growning up around the rebellion making her more sensitive to their plight. She was rasied to fight for her beliefs and being more like Vader I think, "a cunning warrior" She knew to not roock the boat even though she didnt have all the details.
An open, training environment vs a sheltered one

 

holocubes. my bad. <--- still learning.


that sounds good to me. thanks for putting it all so well


and thanks scruff, and everyone, for the sifo dias info.

i also wanted to add that we went to see it again Sun. at Franklin cinema, and oddly enough, i noticed the sound fx and orientations a WHOLE lot better than th20! It was great! wierd that it'd be better than a bigger theater, but.....
movie was still good, yodaz scenes with the wookies were still "aawww"...i noticed the music alot more.....still love the artistic padme then anikin on the operating table black/white contrast.....

but i agree with whoever was saying the more they watch it the more disappointed they are. STORYwise, for me.
we were saying after having seen it once or twice thats really it. if you didn't catch things the 1st, then you did the next time. i don't see myself seeing more than 3 times. i'll buy it so my dvd circle will be complete, and cuz it was masterfully done...but thats about it.

 

kind of OT- but Joe, did you get your glove yet?

 

I really didn't like the fact that the Death Star plans showed up in AOTC or that it was beginning to be built in ROTS. A civilization that can cross the entire galaxy in hours, (or days depending on route and obstacles) should not take 18 freaking years to build a space station.

Fleets of ISDs were built in that time. Obviously, if it took 18 years for the first Death Star to be built, then either they got better at it, or the second one would have HAD to have been started long before the first was destroyed, especially since it was much larger.

 

I don't have a problem with it so much, considering I don't think building big is so much a problem as function in their universe. The superlaser alone could have taken that long to perfect, while the station may have been in business for some time by the events of A New Hope. And though I don't pretend to understand hyperspace physics... moving that bad boy across the galaxy in hours or a day, may have proven tricky. We also don't really know when the 2nd and supposedly larger Death Star actually began its construction, expanded Universe not withstanding.

Though it's implied that this is indeed the station we will see in Ep IV ANH, that may just be an average movie goer convention. This could be the first of several attempts to make the station what it will eventually become. Some internet fans have already picked the imagery and complained that certain aspects do not conform to the visuals we will see in ANH. I didn't pay that close of attention, but some might see it as Stage I prototype of an eventual III or IV.

Although just concept art, I am reminded of a painting by Ralph McQuarrie where too Death Starish husks are being constructed in orbit of Coruscant. Labeled as "giant-sized habitation spheres... for peacetime puroposes" they are clearly Death Star precursers or related space architecture, laser dish included.

A lot of people also point out that even though this is a new Empire of great military might, the Death Star was indeed a fairly secret project. It may have been hard to divert funds to it given the bureaucratic mindset of the the still intact, albeit Imperial version of the Galactic Senate. The new Emperor still has to tread carefully until he can set up his regional governors and dismantle democratic operations permanently. He is after all a very patient fellow. (Really neat Q&A in the latest Insider about that subject. ) Sorry to go on so long.

 

They used union labor for the Death Star I.

 

Well, supposedly, there was a prototype that was built first that that was never completed. Nothing on screen to verify which DS that one was. I'm not even sure myself when the larger DSII (ROTJ) was supposed to have been started.

 

I only have two negative impressions about ROTS: one weak part, one bad part.
Weak: The final battle. This duel is far behind the E1 Obi-Qui-Maul duel, E2 Obi-Fett duel, and E5 Luke-Vader duel. The video game final duel is FAR better than what is on screen. The games duel had a progression of emotional dialog from ?turn back to the light Anakin let me help you? until in the end Obi-Wan just realizes that he has to kill Anakin cause he?s far too corrupted. I did not see (or feel) the turn on the screen. The duel is not that bad to ruin the movie, but could have been way better and have more of an impact.

Bad: Anakin murdering the younglings. This is completely out of character, was unnecessary and should have been cut from the film. This scene completely jarred me out of being engrossed in the film and I never really got back into it after. Anakin turns to the dark side to A) save Padame and child and B) stop the Jedi ?plot? and the Jedi who he has been convinced have been corrupted. (Best non CGI scene in the movie is Anakin telling Mace ?that?s not the Jedi way?) An expectant father is not going to slaughter kids. The kids wouldn?t have been in on the ?plot? and it was never established that they were corrupt. This scene undoes all of the planning to give Anakin purpose for turning to the darkside and makes him some kind of thoughtless caricature monster and ultimately makes the final duel weak.

If Lucas felt he had to show what happened to them he should have two gunships slowly rise to the council chamber tower with the younglings inside and give us a distance shot of the gunships opening up on the tower.

 

Anakin killing the younglings was indeed evil and twisted, it was his ultimate turn to the darkside. Though it was jarring, it had to be shown.The Emperor said "Show no mercy" and he did as he was told. Everything from his pledge to the emperor on was out of character. He was desperate- I think that angle could have been shown more, and the jealousy of Obi wan/Padme could have been played out. The last words Anakin says to Obi wan are said with love, then he wants him dead the next time he sees him? it played well in the novel, where the emperor elluds to a relationship between Obi and Padme, and Anakin runs with it, fueling the rage inside him.

 

he did it cuz he was not the anikin we knew. he was twisted and evil. it was totally in character for something lord vader would do. i'm glad they DIDNt totally show that scene....thought it was tactfully done...

imho

 

What about in ROTJ when Anakin turns good again, and there he is hanging out with Yoda and Obi-Wan like they're old buddies? Wouldn't that be kinda like Charles Manson saying "I was wrong and I'm sorry, and I'm ready to be a good guy now" then everybody gathering around him for a group hug? I mean, here's a guy who murdered children and abused his wife, but because he turned back to the "light side" all is forgiven? If Anakin hadn't died he would have rotted in prison or would have been executed and some Ewok would have been beating on his helmet for a drum.

 

"" I mean, here's a guy who murdered children and abused his wife, but because he turned back to the "light side" all is forgiven? ""


that's a great way to put it!
yep. that's the beauty of being forgiven.

(without getting toooo "churchy" )

 

WWJD

What Would a Jedi Do?

Forgive him.

 

Killing those children was in his character. Anyone remember when he slaughtered the Tuskin camp? He admitted to Padme that he killed the men, the women, and the children. He probably even killed the dogs.

 

As for as Obi-wan forgiving him, from his "point of view" Vadar killed the children, not Anakin. Anakin returns when he kills Palpatine. I guess that's why we see Hayden in the Special Special Edition of ROTJ.

 

for those that read the novel- what was the most compelling part that should have been in the movie?

 

for me- more of the stuff going on in anakin's head when he was fighting Dooku.....

and definitely the quigon stuff.

DVD'd better have tons of deleted scenes

and the more i think about it the more ...moved...i am by yodas scenes and the very end birth adn becoming vader...wow.

and the sound track is more and more moving....

 

Ya know, the soundtrack is great and all, but it is all ****ed up! The music after the opening scroll music is nothing like it is in the movie, all of the tracks are out of order, and the end credits go on for about 10 extra minutes in which we hear the throne room music from Episode 4 twice. This must be the soundtrack for that movie that all of those missing figures are from.