Speculation Official Sequel Trilogy/Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. fett 4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Different time periods as well.

    Heir came out in 91 when there had been no Starwars for almost 10 years and it was billed as the sequel to RTJ and seeing what happens to Luke and Co 5 years after. Quality doesn't come into it, people were going to buy it regardless. It would be more interesting/relevant to know the figures of Dark Force Rising and Last Command and how many people came back for more. I am still not sure if you could say Mara was the prime motivator either way, though she did become a popular character as that seemed more about Luke and Leia. I would not even use the Hand of Thrawn duo either she was in it heavily (complete with her own clone) since that was focused with advertising on Thrawn.

    I think it would be more relevant to maybe use the Comics which featured her and Alliegance and Choices of One which featured her heavily both on the cover and on the blurbs and in the books stories.

    TCW show came out after the awful Prequels and a terrible cartoon film. It was also set in between in a 3 year gap, so we knew how it would end. It lasted for 5 years and Ahsoka was always heavily featured as the main character. Though I argued that it was her and the (thankfully) re-written Anakin that was the heart of the show but thats just my opinion.
  2. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Its not just one elements, its all the elements of his character that make him a Mary-Sue (Gary-Sue in his case). Like Mara (and Cade really) he is basically a perfect character. Even your sum up of him - Han as a Jedi - combines two characters into one. And sure he can't use telekinesis (at least at first), but he has this super awesome power that no one else has, which he can even turn into telekinesis. ANd on top of that his mind powers were extremely effective/powerful to make up for the lack of telekinesis. So ultimately he's great at mind tricks (better then your normal Jedi), and has a super awesome absorb ability not one else has which can be used to power telekinesis. What a weakness. He is also one of the best Jedi at fighting with a lighstaber, plus he has that special length changing lightsaber. Plus he was the best of Rogues when he was there. He was a great CorSec agent (and even had great adventures before he was a full agent, what can't this do.....?). Like helped capture Jedi for the Empire, but was always unaware of that (of course), because he is such a great guy etc....
  3. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Except when he told them to let them die instead of running off to save them......

    They also never told Anakin he couldn't ahve friends, just that being attached to someone (like a wife) was dangerous for a Jedi and guess what.......it was.
  4. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    I don't think it was bad that Anakin had a wife, it was bad that he couldn't tell anyone for fear of getting thrown out of the Order.
  5. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    So its ok to break the rules, the rules are bad because they have consequences?

    It was bad that Anakin had a wife because its dangerous for Jedi to get attached to things because of how their emotions have such a bigger effect on them then normal people. The fact that Anakin couldn't go to anyone for help because he was scared he'd have to give her up or be thrown out of the order is PROOF of this. Anakin put himself in a position were he couldn't go to them for help.

    Someone can say they don't like the rule sthe Jedi order had in place, but Anakin knew them and CHOOSE to ignore them. Its not the Jedi's fault that Anakin ignored the rules and put himself in a bad position, its Anakin. Anakins turn to the dark side is 100% his fault.
    Last edited by fenton, Mar 22, 2013
  6. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    Well, there was that one guy who Anakin went to for help...
  7. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Anakin had a life before he came to the Temple. If the Jedi had less strict rules on attachment Anakin would have been able to adapt better. He couldn't adapt to the life of the Jedi as is. Obi-Wan and the others needed to be more understanding. Anakin did what made him happy. If he knew he could trust Obi-Wan and the others he would have gone with them. Since he couldn't it got him more and more paranoid and look how that turned out. Who offered him help? Obi-Wan? Nope. Palpatine. Was it wrong to save Padme? Going to the Dark Side yes, but since he was a slave who had attachments before the Temple he didn't have the Jedi training to help him get over it. The Jedi were not emphatic to his plight.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    @Rawne : Exactly. The guy who told Anakin that the rules didn't apply to him and that the Jedi were all picking on him.

    I don't like the no-marriage rule myself but I understand why it was in place. It was an overzealous solution to a genuine issue that the Jedi saw. As far as Anakin, he had the option of leaving the Order when he married Padme.

    Also, he could have gone to Obi-Wan for help; he assumed that Obi-Wan would feel obligated to rat him out to the Council but I don't really think that would have happened. He also probably assumed that Obi-Wan wouldn't tell him what he wanted to hear, and on that he was probably right.

    The Jedi weren't perfect by any means but I think blaming them for what Anakin did is off base.
    DARTHSHAME and Esg like this.
  9. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I think that your hypothetical couple million number is probably fairly reasonable so far as EU fans go.

    If a film costs on average $8 per ticket, and if people only go only once each, based on ROTS that would be roughly 100 million ticket sales. I don't think that anyone is arguing that as a one shot, or two shot deal(say DVD sales) the films will make way more money, hypothetically than a single EU novel.

    It is that combined EU material, over the course of the years between films, that is going to add up on the EU side for LFL. It still won't equal film revenue but it won't be insignificant either. Yes, I'm sure that if they hypothetically cancel the EU that they will still make new books that will sell on some level but will they do as well as they currently are?

    Disney may well not care, banking that they are going to draw in so many new fans that it won't matter. But if they do decide to look at the EU fanbase and say through their actions, we don't need you, I think thats a dangerous move for them to make.
    Blip, Esg, Ryus and 1 other person like this.
  10. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Anakin wasn't married too or in love with Padme before he joined the Jedi. And if he couldn't make the commitment to the Jedi that was needed, he should have left the order on his own. The other Jedi don't need to be more understanding, they would have helped Anakin if he asked for it. Anakin needed to be less selfish and look beyond his own happieness. He knew he couldn't go to them because what he did was wrong and he didn't want to live up/own up to the consequences of his actions. He acted like a spoiled brat who thought the rules didn't apply to him. The Jedi would have been emphatic to his plight, he just didn't want to go through what their solution would have been. It was his selfishness, not the Jedi's unwillingness to help because they would have.

    If the Jedi had less strict rules on attachment they'd have more Jedi falling to the darkside because of the fear of loss they create. Those rules aren't there just because.

    Its an easy, catch all solution that works. And you're right, Anakin could have gone to Obi-wan or Yoda or Mace or anyone else, but he didn't because he didn't want the help they would have offered.

    If there is something wrong with you (physically I mean) and you know the doctor will say he has to operate to fix it, but you don't want an operation so you don't go to the doctor and you get worse, its not the doctors fault you don't want the help/solution that is there.
  11. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    The sales of the EU is so much more then a single million
    Ryus likes this.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 6
    @fenton: When Yoda talked to Anakin in ROTS, it seems that Yoda was trying to help Anakin reach an ideal, whereas Anakin was in no frame of mind to think about ideals--he wanted an immediate solution to the problem that he was having at the moment. That doesn't mean Yoda was wrong, he wasn't, but there was definitely a misunderstanding and no "meeting of the minds" there. Which is another reason Anakin should have left the Order when he married Padme; he couldn't expect the Order's entire mindset or philosophy to change for him.
    Jedi Merkurian, Esg and Son of a Bith like this.
  13. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    Well put.
  14. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Excatly. its just Anakin thinking the rules don;t apply to him. "I want to be a Jedi and I want to be married". Thats what prevented him from going to Yoda or Obi-wan. I don't think he wanted an immediate solution, he wanted a solution that meant he didn't have to give anything up, and he just wasn't going to get that answer so he didn't ask the question.
  15. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    Padme said "I will not let you give up your future for me" when he first raised the issue.

    Which might have been part of the reason he wanted to stay- he didn't want her saddled with the guilt of being the cause of him leaving the Order.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  16. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Anakin certainly shares much of the blame. He made so many bad choices. However, the PT Jedi were also flawed. Yoda admits that he made many mistakes in the RotS novelization while talking to the ghost of Qui-gon Jinn. Here is some of what Yoda said:

    Perhaps one of those changes should be in the rule against Jedi marrying and having families. We know that the love of a father for a son and a son for a father brought down an Empire. Love and attachments aren't wrong. It's obsessive, possessive attachment that can cause problems.

    I hope that we will find that Luke is married and does have a family in the ST. I'd like to continue to follow another Skywalker into the future in the SW galaxy.

    I also hope that Luke's Order won't take babies away from their families and never allow them to interact with them.
  17. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    This. Even authors who thought attachment was just too much of a risk- to the rest of the galaxy (Traviss springs to mind) have softened their position over time (In Traviss's case, it was in The Clone Wars: No Prisoners).
    Ryus likes this.
  18. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Why do you keep ignoring Luke's romance in the OT?

    Luke falls in love with Leia the moment he sees her hologram, they share a few kisses and his passion for her pretty much remains up until the point he realizes she's his sister.

    Luke engaged in romance and came out just fine.

    I actually agree with you, but not with your reasoning.
  19. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    In fairness, that is a young Luke figuring out his way in the world. An older, adult Luke may have made a choice to remain dedicated to a Jedi way of life, and we don't know what that might mean to Luke as a fully fledged Jedi. We just don't know yet what they are going to do with the character.

    I don't think we can rule anything in or out
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  20. Rogue_1138 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    This brings up an interesting point about Luke's understanding of the relationship between attachment and the dark side. At the end of ROTJ, it's Vader goading him about his "sister" that causes Luke draw on the dark side and attack Vader. Although it's not a romantic attachment, it is attachment that finally causes Luke to break. He only stops when he recognizes that drawing on anger will lead him on the same path as his father.

    This leaves room open for Luke to choose to eschew attachment, although Captain Tom Coughlin is right that we can't rule anything in or our with certainty, at this point.

    Personally, I'd prefer Luke building an order that tries to make room for attachment in its teachings, but I guess we'll have to see where they take things.
    kubricklynch and Ryus like this.
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Ehh...but it's attachment to his father that leads him to the ultimately correct choice of choosing to try and redeem Vader.
    eht13, lbr789, Ryus and 4 others like this.
  22. Vthuil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I've been away for a few days, and I'm just baffled at the directions this thread has gone in over that time.
    fett 4 likes this.
  23. Jcuk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 3
    Just a thought but i wonder if all the PT likers well end up being ST haters or bashers or whatever. JJ Abrahms ruined my childhood!!
  24. TigerCraneFist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Maybe all the PT haters will end up being PT likers? "Aw man, remember in '99 when we actually got a STAR WARS MOVIE, not this Star Trek-wannabe crap".
    I can totally see that happening. The prequels finally end up being acceptable because they are no longer the "new movies".
    themetresgained and mes520 like this.
  25. Jcuk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 3
    Or maybe they'll be fantastic and EVERYONE will be happy this time? (Doubt that though)