Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.
My god looking trough this thread makes me feel like Eddy Black in the opening scene in Darkman
I would say I feel like Peter Weller's character in the first Robocop when he first encounters the thugs.
That's how I've always imagined you.
I don't know if I should be flattered or instantly depressed. I really just want to be the Golden Robocop. *sigh*
Please can someone explain to me as i have no clue what "stickied" is and what "canon" is.
Stickied threads are always on the first page and preceding pages no matter what. They can't be moved down. They're there for everyone to see.
Canon is anything that is part of the plot-line of Star Wars that cannot and will not be contradicted by any sources.
Somebody else would probably explain this better than I can.
My understanding is that any poster can say: gee, I hope to see__ and ___ from such and such EU source. Another poster can say I hope they revise ___ because I don't like how author ___ handled it. What one canNOT do is say that ___ didn't happen. Everything in the EU *is* canon unless contradicted or later retconned, so we cannot say any character/action is "wrong" and doesn't belong.
In other words, we cannot argue if something happened. We can discuss if we'd like to see it incorporated, modified, or overwritten.
For the "canon" definition someone asked about: movies overrule everything in the EU but only if there's a contradiction. As those on the TV board know and have argued vehemently over, Even Piell died in an EU book, Adi Gallia in a comic. Maul died in TPM and was a Zabrak from Iridonia. TCW overrrode those and now those EU deaths are no longer canon as TCW overrode (replaced) those events - officially, and Maul may or may not have been born on Iridonia but he was raised on Dathomir before he was given to SIdious.
(And mods, if this post misstates the policy, please feel free to remove or modify.)
In the spirit of this thread, let me put on my fanboy cap and wax lyrical about how exciting it'll be to see this or that from the EU up on screen. Let me indulge in a dry recitation of characters and plot elements that should at least be referenced in the new films. And then, let me engage in flights of fancy where I regress to my five-year-old self as I imagine the continuing adventures of Boba Fett, inspired by a Kenner action figure.
But then let me pound my fist as I say that certain EU elements are horrid, and how they don't fit in the SW universe. Let me bemoan the current state of the EU, and then make some offhand comment about a moon killing Chewie. Finally, let me make some remark about how boring "superweapons of the week" were, and maybe badmouth Kevin J. Anderson before praising Timothy Zahn.
Now, you may wish to reply to my ultimate fanboy canon wishlist--what I hope stays and what I hope is scrapped from the canon (which is really what my post will amount to)--but I warn everyone not to fall into temptation. To quote Admiral Ackbar, it's a trap!
You see, if you want to meaningfully discuss my post and add anything of worth to the table, you'll start discussing why certain EU elements will or will not be included., such as the amount of exposition needed to make these elements accessible to an audience. A third person will want to add that Chewie is dead, and then mention how easy that is to explain to an audience. You may then say "Chewie most likely will be alive in Episode 7".
The allure of saying the C-word will be too great. "But Chewie is dead! It's canon!" adds one poster. And then, like a case of swine flu in a daycare centre, the virus will spread rapidly. Moderators will attempt to contain the threat, donning virtual hazmat gear while deleting any posts that contain the pathogen. Known vectors for the virus (i.e. certain posters) will be banned. Finally, this thread will be locked, and the idea of discussing the EU in relation to Episode 7 will be regarded as a topic too dangerous, too prone to infection, to ever be allowed again. But it will be too late.
The virus will spread to other threads, and the moderators will be deleting posts endlessly in a vain attempt to end the spread once and for all. At the eleventh hour, the existential crisis will be too great. He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.
The end will arrive not with a loud bang but with a murmur.
In 2015, when Episode 7 premieres, children will ask their parents about the legend of the TFN boards. A father will look into his daughter's eyes, trying desperately to hide the tears welling inside. "Sometimes people make mistakes, honey, and all we can do is learn from those mistakes. Just remember: as long as the lessons of the past are not forgotten, the TFN boards will live on in your heart."
"I know, daddy. I know."
We must remain vigilant, only posting canon wishlists but never discussing canon--only discussing what may be in the new films but never discussing the larger implications--if we wish to prevent the above nightmare scenario from ever occurring.
Be strong, my fellow posters. Be strong.
Pffft... this place has seen several canon wars, and has survived. I'm not sure why the current moderators are trying so hard to stifle this classic piece of traditional fanboy hilarity.
Oh come on, you must have some idea.
Whats wrong with a Moon Killing Chewie? It's a hell of a lot better then being offed by a bridge
ok ...i am gonna try something ...name the best EU book and I will read it and see if It will change my mind
I keep hearing how great the Thrawn trilogy is and I've had them on my shelf for years, so I figured this would be as good a time as any to finally give them a fair shake. I don't know though... it's entertaining enough I guess, but so far I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
How about some Cannon wars?
Try Darth Plagueis or Labyrinth of Evil.
Darth Plagueis is made of win. Also try Luke Skywalker & the Shadows of Mindor.
I wasn't that impressed with Labyrinth of Evil, but I would certainly recommend Plageuis and Shadows of Mindor. Those are easily the two best stand alone SW novels.
You can also find quotes by Lucas saying the exact opposite. Read his introduction to Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Lucas' view of the EU in the early to mid 90s seems to have been much more positive. He had stated that Dark Empire was something he would have loved to make as episodes VII-IX. He also stated that he would have loved to make a movie like Shadows of the Empire. He was also heavily involved in giving input into early EU stories. At some point Lucas began to ignore EU.
I don't know if he was heavily involved in the early EU stories, but I know he was involved. And I'm not saying he never liked any of that stuff, but you're right that at some point he began to ignore it. And my main point was that he considers it a different universe from the movies.
"Part of the job of the director is to sort of keep everything in line, and I can do that in the movies—but I can't do it on the whole Star Wars universe."
-SW Insider, August/September 1999
"There are two worlds here, There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don’t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don’t get too involved in the parallel universe."
-Starlog, July 2001
"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."
-Starlog, August 2005
"They have their own kind of world. There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead." In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!"
-Total Film, May 2008
Honestly I want to find the evidence that says that Lucas thought Dark Empire would make Episodes 7-9. From what he has said recently he disregards it.
And yet TCW (ugh) something he says he holds in the same level as the movies in his quotes has Eu references left and right. So much for disregarding it.
Not to mention Lucas changes his mind on things every five minutes, and the own kind of world is taken out of context.
Source? aside from an out of context quote?
EU references are one thing. Lucas isn't above throwing the fans a bone here and there, and I'm sure there are people who work on TCW who are more intimately familiar with the EU than Lucas is. It's something else entirely when you're talking about basing a new series of films around a ton of established EU lore. I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe the assumption that this trilogy will continue with the big three 30 or so years later is false. It may very well be that they're going to set it much further in the future, and use the EU to work up to it, so that everybody's happy... except of course for everyone who's expecting a return of the main OT characters, however even Mark Hamill has alluded in the past to the notion that his role in the ST might not be quite what you'd expect.
So basically their is no evidence.