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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by YoureNotJonesy, Nov 2, 2012.

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  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Who decides what constitutes "faulty reasoning", or what assumptions are "reasonable" and which aren't?

    Sounds to me like the tired old "my opinion is better than your opinion" argument.
     
  2. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Who decides what constitutes faulty reasoning? Maybe Aristotle?
     
  3. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Just an observation:

    It seems like pro-EU folks seem to think that their belief in the EU will make it so in the ST.

    At the same time, the anti-EU seem to think there is no way nor reason to include it.

    At the end of the day, Uncle George's treatments will be what they will be.

    It's not up to us.

    ^:)^
     
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  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Aristotle has what to do with Star Wars exactly?

    Bring in Joseph Campbell and we'll talk.

    I'm actually not strongly pro- or anti-EU, I don't care what Disney includes or doesn't include, but I do have an issue with the rationale that "anyone who does not agree with me regarding the timeline of Episode VII is not 'thinking clearly'." The extension of that argument, "anyone who thinks clearly, agrees with me," is a bit arrogant.
     
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  5. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    A very fair observation--we all have our own biases.

    Well, see, here's why you need Aristotle. "People who hold position X are not thinking clearly" only implies that "People who think clearly do not hold position X." It's not a matter of "They're wrong and I'm right" vs. "I'm wrong and they're right"--we may both be wrong. What you're suggesting is called a false dilemma.

    And FWIW, I've read plenty of Campbell. He was a great thinker, but we're discussing "faulty reasoning" at the moment, not mythic archetypes.
     
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I "need" Aristotle about as much as I "need" a trip to the bathtub with an asp. I have no patience whatsoever with philosophical musings. I call reality as I see it.

    And how the hell is "people who hold position X are not thinking clearly" and "people who think clearly do not hold position X" any different than "people who hold position X are stupid idiots who aren't using their brains"?
     
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  7. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 9, 2009
    I studied philosophy for a bit but decided it was perhaps too esoteric for an actual degree. Still, I retained some of its lessons and may occasionally talk out of my asp from time to time.

    Here's my honest response: I don't think you need to be a "stupid idiot" to not think clearly. If you interpret "not thinking clearly" as some vicious personal attack, that's your issue, not mine.
     
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  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Uh, no, not exactly.

    "You aren't thinking clearly, and once you develop clarity of thought, you will come to agree with me." You don't see that line of thought as arrogant at all?

    As I said, maybe people are "thinking clearly" and just came to a different conclusion. It happens.
     
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  9. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Which reeks of "You're only getting mad because you can't comprehend what I'm saying"
     
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  10. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 9, 2009
    This is absurd. I said that I think (i.e. from my personal POV) that people who hope that Ep7 will be set 100 years ABY are "not thinking clearly", given the evidence.

    Let me put it another way: my interpretation of the evidence is that Luke will most likely be featured as a man of ~60 years of age. Other people have interpreted the evidence differently, allowing them hope that Ep7 will be set 100 years ABY. I think their hopes are clouding their judgement. If that's arrogance, so be it.
     
  11. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 9, 2009
    I also think the moon landing actually took place and hold the opinion that moon hoax conspiracy theorists are completely, utterly, 100% wrong. My arrogance knows no bounds.
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    You're comparing people who want Episode VII set in a different time frame than that in which you think it will be set, to moon landing conspiracy theorists? Seriously?
     
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  13. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    No. But I am saying it's OK to think people are wrong in their opinions.

    ETA: Though seriously, the only reasons I've heard for thinking Ep7 will be set 100 years ABY are 1) the OT actors are old and gross and 2) LFL will wish to preserve the EU. IMHO, that argument reflects a certain disconnect with reality.
     
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  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    And you can't possibly simply disagree with others' opinions, anyone who doesn't share your opinion--about a film franchise--must be "wrong".

    I see.
     
  15. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Oh god... it's the "I've studied philosophy for a bit (in other words, I took philosophy 101 and ethics) and therefore I feel that I am better equipped to argue with you other people who have college degrees and have also taken philosophy 101 and ethics," guy.
     
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  16. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    It's not a big deal, thinking other people are wrong about a film franchise. This isn't the Cuban Missile Crisis. Nobody is going to be mortally wounded by Very Strong Opinions.

    Fair call. Frankly, if I've sounded like one of those people, I deserve all the opprobrium I get.
     
  17. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    You 100% sound like one of those people.
     
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  18. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Well, let me return to writing my 100 page thesis on "Jar Jar as misunderstood Fool archetype" while eating Cheetos in my parents' basement.
     
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  19. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    You do that.
     
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  20. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    I'm the one who started the thread where I speculated that the ST could take place 100+ years after the ST (and btw 100 years later would still conflict with the EU, so that wouldn't be the time period anyway). My reasoning behind examining that possibility involved the fact that Lucas had kept the PT era off the table for the EU before he made those movies, and that maybe there was a chance he had left another period of time off the table for the EU in case he ended up making the ST. Before I made that thread, I was totally opposed to using anything from the EU in the ST, so my only hope was that if it they did decide to leave it intact that there would be some way around having it make any impact on the story of these movies.

    Ultimately I concluded that this was an impossible task unless set several hundred years ahead when they could hit a total reset button on everything, but I don't see much sense in that, especially if they want the original cast involved, which it appears that they do. I still hold that all those things aside, it wouldn't be impossible from a storytelling perspective to set the ST 100 years or more in the future, but that isn't something I'm actually hoping for in any way. I've seen people who agree that it's possible from a storytelling perspective, and I've even seen people who like the idea, but I have yet to see anybody who was actively hoping for such an occurrence, although I have seen many people who bring it up as if it's something others are hoping for. So unless you can prove otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that's just a straw man.

    And even if they are, so what? Hoping for something has nothing to do with reason anyway, and it says nothing negative about someone's intellect to have an opinion that differs from the general consensus. In fact, if anything I think it shows strength of character to go against the grain and admit that all any of us are doing here is guessing, and that it's far more foolish to think you know exactly what will happen than to examine other possibilities, even if they're much less likely to come to fruition.
     
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  21. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    We're done with the personal attacks, right? ;)
     
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  22. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    It matters not if you have read every EU book, played every SW Game, read every article on Wookiepedia or have a Phd in SW Lore, this does not grant you the right to decide whose opinions are more valid or to belittle someone else whose opinion is not the same.

    Art is subjective, so there aren't really right or wrong answers since people like different things. I personally don't care much for most of the EU, but I'm not opposed to anyone else liking it neither will I use it as a stick to browbeat people with just so I can feel some sense of superiority.

    Some people do it unintentionally of course, tone is not easy to interpret online.



    This is not something that just happens here mind you, I've seen in the JCC and other parts of these forums.
    If people like soemthing you do not or suggest something you don't like, agree to disagree.

    Debate is healthy anyway, everyone having the same views would be dull.
     
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  23. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Sorry? Where exactly do you see the EU people in this thread telling other people they "aren't thinking straight"?
     
  24. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
  25. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    We have two-and-a-half to three more years of this?
     
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